Great Lakes Cities

[Docere]

It's not on the Great Lakes, but how much does Winnipeg resemble US Midwest/Great Lakes cities?:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89705...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89801...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89007...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.91547...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.91547...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.87974...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.87974...7i13312!8i6656

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

in fact midwestern cities are sort of defined by the fact that east coast people and money poured in to build them...this extends to chicago, to cincinnati, to cleveland, to st. louis, etc etc etc.

And this is why the East Coast/Midwest distinction doesn't really apply in the Canadian context. Toronto wasn't built up by "Easterners." However WASP Ontarians dominated the economic elite in Winnipeg for a long time.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I don't understand why a cities are more "similar" if people move between the cities.

Tons of Detroiters retire in Naples, even more New Yorkers retire in Boca and environs. Chicagoans move to Phoenix. Buffaloans move to Charlotte. Is the contention that Chicago is like Phoenix because there are lots of Bears fans there?

Completely agree with you, BUT there's still a nugget of truth in what they're saying: if people have been moving between the cities a lot during the era they were coming of age, then it's likely that the built forms and urban environments will be somewhat similar due to common influences.

In the modern era this isn't as important as the cities are already pretty much built out.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

When it comes to pre-war highrise building stock, the great lakes region represents extremely well.

NYC is obviously #1 worldwide in that department, but chicago is a solid #2 by most measures. After that the ordering is more muddled, but detroit is easily top 5 any way you cut it, and cleveland and Toronto are probably top 10. And buffalo and milwaukee have some stand out gems as well (particularly their respective city halls, which are among the most impressive in the nation).

And even though it's not a great lakes city, pittsburgh is also up near the top too. (Only mentioned because pittsburgh has been discussed a lot in this thread)

Thanks!..I just like that period for skyscrapers. Sure, Toronto has some..Just not to the same scale or ratio to glass as saay Detroit.

[eschaton]

IMHO most cities have downtowns which look pretty similar, provided they were built up in around the same period. The differences tend to be between the housing vernacular of the residential neighborhoods.

The Great Lakes vernacular (outside of Chicago, where the Great Fire caused the city to make a 180) is detached wood framed homes, or 2-3 story walkups which look like detached wood framed homes. This is a common vernacular in many other parts of the country too, but it stands in contrast to the "river cities" to the south of the Great Lakes, where brick predominated.

In general, I think you can take any 19th century neighborhood from Buffalo, Cleveland, or Milwaukee, drop it in another city, and it wouldn't look out of place. The same is almost true about intact neighborhoods in Detroit, but for whatever reason, in Detroit front setbacks in the surviving old neighborhoods are pretty extreme - almost suburban feeling. Hamtramck could easily be part of the west side of Cleveland or something though.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The same is almost true about intact neighborhoods in Detroit, but for whatever reason, in Detroit front setbacks in the surviving old neighborhoods are pretty extreme - almost suburban feeling. Hamtramck could easily be part of the west side of Cleveland or something though.

that is an interesting observation.


i just took a little streetview drive through corktown (aka "detroit's oldest neighborhood") and indeed the front yard setbacks are bigger than i would have expected for a 19th century neighborhood.

corktown side street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3301...7i13312!8i6656



but then when i took a little drive through hamtramck, which is early 20th century, things are noticeably a little tighter, more developed, looking a lot like early 20th century cleveland.

hamtramck side street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3973...7i13312!8i6656

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

that is an interesting observation.


i just took a little streetview drive through corktown (aka "detroit's oldest neighborhood") and indeed the front yard setbacks are bigger than i would have expected for a 19th century neighborhood.

corktown side street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3301...7i13312!8i6656



but then when i took a little drive through hamtramck, which is early 20th century, things are noticeably a little tighter, more developed, looking a lot like early 20th century cleveland.

hamtramck side street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3973...7i13312!8i6656

this is going to sound goofy, but the movie gran torino really highlighted the "front yard" and "big porch" aspect of detroit. while these are things that i usually associate with pre-war suburbia, i really thought it was kind of neat, and highlights the huge middle class wealth that was once present in urban detroit.

the big tree lawns like chicago are good, too.

this is a street in my suburb...as you can see, the tree lawns are quite often pathetic, something that the great lakes doesn't usually have a problem with. https://goo.gl/maps/B5qDsar8uYS2

[north 42]

Originally Posted by Crawford

My guess is that people are claiming "Metro X isn't anything like Detroit" because of Detroit's notorious reputation. Even Cleveland and Buffalo partisans cannot bear any association with Detroit, it seems.

Exactly!!!

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

this is a street in my suburb...as you can see, the tree lawns are quite often pathetic, something that the great lakes doesn't usually have a problem with. https://goo.gl/maps/B5qDsar8uYS2

In Pittsburgh we don't even have a name for the tiny piece of green between the sidewalk and the road. In front of my house it's only a foot wide. These are the biggest I know about - one of the most "Chicago" looking streets in the city. On most streets they just don't exist at all, and you need to cut a hole in the sidewalk to plant a street tree.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the big tree lawns like chicago are good, too.

what the hell is a tree lawn?

are you talking about parkways?

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

what the hell is a tree lawn?

are you talking about parkways?

ebayimg.com

nope, im not talking about the strip of grass down the center of the street.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

nope, im not talking about the strip of grass down the center of the street.

yeah, no shit, no one in this thread has been talking about medians.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, no shit, no one in this thread has been talking about medians.

pinimg.com

[creamcityleo79]

Originally Posted by Docere

It's not on the Great Lakes, but how much does Winnipeg resemble US Midwest/Great Lakes cities?:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89705...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89801...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.89007...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.91547...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.91547...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.87974...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.87974...7i13312!8i6656

I've been to quite a few Midwest Cities (and lived in a couple) and I've been to Winnipeg. It seems like it has more of an East Coast vibe than Midwest. I think it's more distinctly Canadian, though, than either.

[bartolo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

what the hell is a tree lawn?

are you talking about parkways?

You mean a boulevard.

[pj3000]

I appreciate the perspectives shared on this thread from people throughout the greater region. Good topic, that has covered a lot of ground.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

cleveland is 100% a midwestern feeling city from my experience/visits/etc. nothing about it orients it towards the east coast more than any number of other midwestern cities with guilded age (or earlier) and/or east coast money built institutions/amenities/etc in my opinion.

Curious what it means in the broader sense for a city to feel midwestern - is there a midwest vibe? Are you referring more to the layout and vernacular?

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by shappy

Curious what it means in the broader sense for a city to feel midwestern - is there a midwest vibe? Are you referring more to the layout and vernacular?

yeah, kind of. midwestern cities often have wide, big boned downtowns...often the cities feel like they were laid out for thousands, if not millions more people than are there...even chicago. broad expanses of big infrastructure, huge swaths of industrial or logistics, big guilded age projects like parks, blvds, endless blocks of middle class built homes in the city and suburbs. there is definitely a kind of pan-midwesternism, although regional differences between the lake, river, and prairie cities exist with regards to vernacular. it’s not a place where people complain about there “being too many damned people,” like you hear in say california or increasing the southeast. you can feel the contrast when you leave the midwest and are in a city like nashville, and somehow, suddenly, the city feels improbably cramped with cars and close-in suburbs. i’ve felt the same thing in austin.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

yeah, kind of. midwestern cities often have wide, big boned downtowns...often the cities feel like they were laid out for thousands, if not millions more people than are there...even chicago. broad expanses of big infrastructure, huge swaths of industrial or logistics, big guilded age projects like parks, blvds, endless blocks of middle class built homes in the city and suburbs. there is definitely a kind of pan-midwesternism, although regional differences between the lake, river, and prairie cities exist with regards to vernacular. it’s not a place where people complain about there “being too many damned people,” like you hear in say california or increasing the southeast. you can feel the contrast when you leave the midwest and are in a city like nashville, and somehow, suddenly, the city feels improbably cramped with cars and close-in suburbs. i’ve felt the same thing in austin.

Ok yeah, I get that thanks. I was perusing on streetview and came across this: https://goo.gl/maps/oYcxxMcNCsr

An impressive building but with little else around. Pretty fascinating with the scale being so off balance. Mind you, perhaps a lot was torn down? In any case, sort of inline with your point about building more than required.

[MayDay]

That's St. Colman Church - more info at: https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/185