DALLAS - FORT WORTH | Rail Transportation

[dfwcr8tive]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I have a question, could this line(and the SW2NE T line as well with a wye north of DFW airport) continue on at the junction in Carrollton onto the Cotton Belt route into Addison?

As it stands I'm not sure why anyone would ride this line if you had to transfer to another train halfway.

But then if it served a major business center like Addison directly, being more convenient(distance-wise it would be a shortcut as opposed to driving 77 to 635). That would take tons of cars off the road and help the traffic situation.

It's funny how that area is in reality becoming the true geographic center of the Metroplex, so why not be a transit hub of its own? In addition to all the buses that stop there, you could take a train from Fort Worth, Denton, Plano, Garland, the Airport, and if they built that DART branch, to DT Dallas as well.

That's part of the 2030 plan. Downtown Carrollton and DFW Airport will be major transfer hubs within the system. The Cotton Belt line is planned to run from Plano to DFW Airport, to connect with the SW2NE line from Fort Worth to DFW Airport. DCTA will eventually connect to the other lines at Downtown Carrollton and may have direct service to DFW Airport or downtown Dallas.

Here's the 2030 Plan: http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/2030plan.asp

And the regional plan:

[stranger]

Some statistics on bus/light rail ridership. This information is based on the data provided by NCTCOG. I don't claim to be an actuary but I think this information is pretty fair.

This graph shows how ridership has changed from January 2004 through December 2009. The blue line charts average weekly ridership of DART and TRE rails, as well as DART, DCTA, FWTA buses. The orange line applies a population growth factor to the totals. After applying the growth factor, it appears that last December carried the lowest amount of passengers since Jan. 2004.

Interpretation: Public transit ridership has not been keeping up with total DFW population growth.



A simple regression on adjusted total ridership and DFW average gas prices points out the obvious: A dollar increase in gas prices will increase ridership by 12,170 (growth adjusted) riders.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by stranger

Interpretation: Public transit ridership has not been keeping up with total DFW population growth.

I got news for you, neither has the milage of freeway lanes in DFW.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by electricron

I got news for you, neither has the milage of freeway lanes in DFW.

Well when you are adding ~1 million people a decade to the your metro it's going to be nearly impossible to do so in a democratic country.

It is somewhat shocking to see how little the ridership changed over the years compared to the population, but mass transit has never been too popular here in Texas.

[electricron]

You have a valid point, transit ridership hasn't gone up proportionally with population. But, I would like to add, most of the new population moves into the outer ring suburbs that have no transit......
So it is hard for our new neighbors to ride transit.....

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by electricron

You have a valid point, transit ridership hasn't gone up proportionally with population. But, I would like to add, most of the new population moves into the outer ring suburbs that have no transit......
So it is hard for our new neighbors to ride transit.....

Texas needs to move towards transit the can serve the low density, multipolar suburbs.

[dfwcr8tive]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Texas needs to move towards transit the can serve the low density, multipolar suburbs.

Like the A-Train? http://www.mya-train.com/

Or the TRE? http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by njjeppson

Like the A-Train? http://www.mya-train.com/

Or the TRE? http://www.trinityrailwayexpress.org/

I would think express buses would serve low density, multipolar metros more efficiently but the A-train looks decent.

[M1EK]

Wasting time attempting to serve low-density multipolar suburbs sounds like a good idea until you actually look at what one of these solutions entails, and then realize that nobody will ride it. (Multiple transfers and/or incredibly large time penalties).

Far better to focus on increasing transit's modeshare in and to the dense areas of the metro.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by M1EK

Wasting time attempting to serve low-density multipolar suburbs sounds like a good idea until you actually look at what one of these solutions entails, and then realize that nobody will ride it. (Multiple transfers and/or incredibly large time penalties).

Far better to focus on increasing transit's modeshare in and to the dense areas of the metro.

I don't think it's wasting time serving low density, multipolar suburbs, just that rail isn't the way to go in general. DFW is such a unique metro in Texas in that it is a metro full of cities and large suburbs so all the activity/employment centers are spread out. They have lots of underutilized or abandoned rail that can be converted into passenger rail cost effectively. However, I do agree that it will more than likely have low ridership, multiple transfers and too spread out. I think park&ride, HOV, and/or HOT better serve Texas suburbs but I look forward to seeing how DFW rail turns out.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I would think express buses would serve low density, multipolar metros more efficiently but the A-train looks decent.

I would agree that express buses running in HOV lanes would work, but not in the Managed Toll Lanes in the DFW metroplex future that NCTCOG has in mind to pay for freeway expansion. Express buses will still face the same traffic as all the other vehicles sharing the freeways and highways.

Trains, light rail, commuter rail, regional rail, or heavy rail, running in dedicated rail corridors will always be more reliable and faster, no matter how many train stations are built. There are such things as express trains too, that can skip stations along the way to increase their average speeds.
The distance between downtown Dallas and downtown Denton is 40.1 miles per Yahoo Maps. Yahoo Maps also suggests the elapse time today averages 48 minutes, or at an average speed of just 50 mph by car or truck. I would expect DART's light rail and DCTA's regional rail could average more than 30 mph over the entire 40 miles far into the future.
But, I don''t expect cars and trucks to maintain 50 mph average speeds in the future. Here's why, there's just ONE highway corridor, squeezed between Lake Grapevine and Lake Lewisville that can fit into this corridor. That's I-35E in the recent past, today, and far into the future.
There are no parallel freeways or tollways to take that aren't half an hour out of the way and longer. It's 18.4 miles due east on US 380 between downtown Denton and the Dallas North Tollroad, plus you'll have to drive the DNT all 31.8 miles into downtown Dallas. Your 40.1 mile trip just turned into 50 miles, of which less than 32 miles is controlled access, and more than 18 miles would be stop and go traffic along US 380.

TXDOT is only going to expand I-35E so much. Golly, it's not even 6 lanes of freeway all the way between Denton and Dallas today. I can see the present future NCTCOG plans of highway expansion to last the next 40 to 50 years, that being of just 8 Free lanes and at most 4 Managed Toll lanes (Total of 12 lanes). That's what is planned, I would like to point out that the entire I-35E project hasn't been funded. So, as I see it, the average speeds along I-35E are going to get slower in 50 years, even after TXDOT expands I-35E, because the ONE highway will never be built wide enough to handle all the future traffic congestion.
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/IH35E/Env+Doc/
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/NR...cember2009.pdf

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by electricron

I would agree that express buses running in HOV lanes would work, but not in the Managed Toll Lanes in the DFW metroplex future that NCTCOG has in mind to pay for freeway expansion. Express buses will still face the same traffic as all the other vehicles sharing the freeways and highways.

Trains, light rail, commuter rail, regional rail, or heavy rail, running in dedicated rail corridors will always be more reliable and faster, no matter how many train stations are built. There are such things as express trains too, that can skip stations along the way to increase their average speeds.
The distance between downtown Dallas and downtown Denton is 40.1 miles per Yahoo Maps. Yahoo Maps also suggests the elapse time today averages 48 minutes, or at an average speed of just 50 mph by car or truck. I would expect DART's light rail and DCTA's regional rail could average more than 30 mph over the entire 40 miles far into the future.
But, I don''t expect cars and trucks to maintain 50 mph average speeds in the future. Here's why, there's just ONE highway corridor, squeezed between Lake Grapevine and Lake Lewisville that can fit into this corridor. That's I-35E in the recent past, today, and far into the future.
There are no parallel freeways or tollways to take that aren't half an hour out of the way and longer. It's 18.4 miles due east on US 380 between downtown Denton and the Dallas North Tollroad, plus you'll have to drive the DNT all 31.8 miles into downtown Dallas. Your 40.1 mile trip just turned into 50 miles, of which less than 32 miles is controlled access, and more than 18 miles would be stop and go traffic along US 380.

TXDOT is only going to expand I-35E so much. Golly, it's not even 6 lanes of freeway all the way between Denton and Dallas today. I can see the present future NCTCOG plans of highway expansion to last the next 40 to 50 years, that being of just 8 Free lanes and at most 4 Managed Toll lanes (Total of 12 lanes). That's what is planned, I would like to point out that the entire I-35E project hasn't been funded. So, as I see it, the average speeds along I-35E are going to get slower in 50 years, even after TXDOT expands I-35E, because the ONE highway will never be built wide enough to handle all the future traffic congestion.
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/IH35E/Env+Doc/
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/NR...cember2009.pdf

I was speaking more in general terms about express buses. In Houston, they have been focusing on express bus service since the 70's so they infrastructure for it is good. DC also has a good park&ride system. It depends on the city really, the infrastructure and the city layout. I've been doubtful of how commuter trains will benefit a region that is laid out like DFW but it will be interesting to see how and if it all comes together. I look forward to watching it unfold. I must say I am envious of DFW's can do attitude about transit.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by M1EK

Wasting time attempting to serve low-density multipolar suburbs sounds like a good idea until you actually look at what one of these solutions entails, and then realize that nobody will ride it. (Multiple transfers and/or incredibly large time penalties).

Far better to focus on increasing transit's modeshare in and to the dense areas of the metro.

I don't completely agree, especially with DCTA. All the funds supporting DCTA, both buses and A-train, comes from Denton County. Why should Denton County taxes support transportation needs of Dallas County?

DCTA receives a half cent sales tax from the cities of Denton, Lewisville, and Highland Village, that generates around $14 Million per year which is sufficient to support DCTA's operations and maintenance, plus 20% of the capital funds needed to built the A-Train. The other 80% of the A-Train capital funds is coming from Denton County's share of funds from tolling SH 121 (Sam Rayburn Tollway), So all the funds is coming from Denton County.

Sure, there will be a need to transfer to DART light rail trains in Carrollton if your ultimate destination is in Dallas or other DART member cities. But you will not have to make that transfer if you're destination is along the 21 miles of the A-Train corridor... DCTA is also building the lower cost suburban type train for suburban communities. They will not have the density to support urban style rail for decades.

Let DART build urban and suburban style light rail and commuter rail corridors in its member cities mostly in Dallas County. But don't place that urban burden on DCTA......

As for transfers, all forms of public transportation requires transfers, even the express buses so popular with many. You have one transfer at the express bus Park & Ride lot. You also have another transfer in downtown too. Sometimes express buses as circulators downtown so you can get off close to your final destination, sometimes express buses end at transit centers downtown that can be blocks away from your final destination. DART uses transit centers, so you'll most likely will have at least two transfers when using express buses.

The only public transit I am aware of that takes passengers from their front door to the front door of their destination is a privately operated taxi or cab. I don't expect such direct services from either publicly supported buses or trains, you shouldn't either.

[dfwcr8tive]

Private money may be used to build Cotton Belt corridor rail line
07:42 AM CDT on Friday, April 9, 2010
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...c.3f70d2e.html

With transportation funds running short at every level, regional planners for the North Central Texas Council of Governments are seeking permission to lead an unusual partnership with private investors so they can fast-track a 62-mile rail line known as the Cotton Belt corridor.

The plan, already supported by the two lead transit agencies in Dallas and Fort Worth, would use private money to build the rail line. And for the first time, the Regional Transportation Council would be put in charge of negotiating a contract outlining service levels, fares and other aspects of the new rail line.

DART and The T in Fort Worth would retain a veto over any final deal, and their staff members would sit in on the negotiations, explained Michael Morris, transportation director for the council of governments.

"From our point of view, we have an obligation to look out for all modes of transportation," Morris told the 43-member Regional Transportation Council on Thursday. "We've seen how innovative financing has helped us on the highway side, so our thought is, why not try to bring some of that same innovation to other modes and help our transit agencies develop rail lines as well."

The deal would be different than any of the private toll deals that have dominated discussions of highway financing for years.

Instead of an advisory role, the RTC would be in charge of selecting the firms to partner with and would negotiate the financing details for the plan, which could involve about $1 billion.

Morris said that if his approach is approved, the RTC could have a final deal to vote on, and to forward to the transit agencies, by the end of this year.

The council was poised to vote Thursday, but Dallas County Commissioner Maurine Dickey and Collin County Commissioner Joe Jaynes asked for more time, and the 43-member RTC tabled the item for a month.

...

DART knows of no other transit agency in the country that has opened a passenger rail line paid for by private investors, DART spokesman Morgan Lyons said. A public-private partnership in Denver is under way, but the transit agency has made big contributions of tax dollars to keep that project, already delayed and scaled back, moving forward.

The Cotton Belt plan, by contrast, would seek private investors to build the system without a penny from DART or The T.

The plan would most likely include much steeper fares for the Cotton Belt, paid parking, and the creation of special tax districts that would capture property tax increases associated with private development along the rail line.

...

[electricron]

As I view the RTC's white paper and presentation at the meeting, I'm less optimistic private funding can be found.
White Paper
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committe....rtc040810.pdf
Presentation
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committe....rtc040810.pdf

I leave with a far different feeling of a successful outcome than what the DMN article suggests. Another reason why going to the original source is far better than reading someone's else's interpretation of what it means, even mine. Read the links yourself...

That's not saying private financial partners will never be found, I'm saying the idea that there's private financial partners already lined up waiting for a chance to bid on a RFP for 100% of the projected costs is not true. And that was the impression I got from reading the DMN article....

The RTC plan is hoping for a financial miracle that someone will step up with a plan to raise the money. Even if some private party steps up with a financial plan; publicly financed counties, cities, and agencies will have to chip in to implement them. I give little hope to the idea of getting every city in the area, or along the Cotton Belt corridor, to agree to chip in to implement these plans.

The largest cities will have to chip in for any regional plan to work. I see some doing this tax, others doing that tax, and the whole plan falling apart eventually from a lack of unity.....

And that's just from the financial point of view. You're not going to get many, if any TODs arising from low frequency train service creating the tax support needed to build and run the trains. Privately ran and operated trains aren't going to be allowed to lose money. Therefore, mid day and late night services, like DART light rail operations, aren't going to be allowed to happen. With less trains there will be less passengers, and with less passengers there will less TODs. It'll be a vicious circle of less......

[dfwcr8tive]

Station Designs for the Orange Line: http://www.dart.org/newsroom/imagelibrary.asp#orange



University of Dallas











Las Colinas Urban Center











Irving Convention Center











Las Colinas Carpenter Ranch











North Lake College











Belt Line Station

[dfwcr8tive]

The DEIS for the DART D2 subway line through downtown has been published, which includes the alignment, detail and station proposals:

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/downtowndallas.asp

[electricron]

The Las Colinas Carpenter Ranch station has been deferred as well. Read DART's Board Agenda (Item 12) for April 13th
http://www.dartnet.org/connect/board...nistrative.pdf

12. Closure of the University of Dallas (UD)/Texas Stadium Light Rail Transit
(LRT) Alignment Interlocal Agreement (ILA) between DART and the City of Irving; and Incorporation of Specific Scope Elements into and Deferral of Construction of the Las Colinas Carpenter Ranch Station from the Irving-
1/Irving-2 (I-1/I-2) Design-Build Contract

Just another of the many Orange Line cuts. DART promised Irving the cuts on the Orange Line wouldn't be noticeable two years ago when costs for this line skyrocketed over budget, and a top to bottom review was made.

How can one not notice an entire station, specifically Carpenter Ranch, getting cut?

Worse yet, the I-3 section getting to DFW Airport terminals is at risk too. Although the final decision to cut or delay construction of the I-3 section hasn't been made, it doesn't look like DART has the funds available to complete I-3 on time. Everyone looking forward to taking the trains all the way to DFW Airport will miss cutting that!

[dfwcr8tive]

http://www.dart.org/about/expansion/...ndsstation.asp

[dfwcr8tive]

June 2010 Update

North Carrollton/Frankford Station



Trinity Mills Station







Royal Lane Station





Walnut Hill/Denton Station









Lawnview Station







Lake June Station









Buckner Station