Stinson School Lofts | ? | 4 fl | Complete

[Berklon]

What house? The site from the link doesn't show anything, and the picture is only of the sign.

[interr0bangr]

Originally Posted by Berklon

What house? The site from the link doesn't show anything, and the picture is only of the sign.

"Mansion" #1
$699,900
https://goo.gl/maps/uwBgsZiijXx

"Mansion" #2
$749,900
https://goo.gl/maps/oMZBfDi7pdv

[Berklon]

Aaahh, those.

Yea, he could get away with that price if they were closer to the downtown core (which I still consider overpriced, but people are buying them at that price) - but not in that area.

It better be renovated up to the tits if he's going to get anything close to those prices.

[matt602]

Although the one on the corner is a bit large, I don't even get how those can be referred to as "mansions". There are much bigger homes in Durand or even St. Clair that could truly be referred to as mansions. These are just regular housing stock for central Hamilton, for the most part. A lot of those houses are going for closer to $750k and for good reason: lots of restored heritage elements and HUGE sizes. These houses still have shitty vinyl siding on them and are probably full of the remnants of terrible renovations over the years.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Mansion. Manor. Manse. It's all very confusing. Regardless, those handsome homes on Stinson don't fit any of the aforementioned descriptors.

[fizzle]

Originally Posted by HillStreetBlues

And the appreciation will continue forever, right?

I agree with you, in recent history there have not been that many condominium projects that have failed, especially relative to the (enormous) number constructed. Maybe in a couple of years that will no longer be the case. Certainly in the early '90s there were plenty that flopped.

I don't see it ending any time soon. People need places to live, and land commands a premium price. Condos are the new starter home.

Even shitty areas like Cityplace in Toronto should be insulated simply by virtue of their location.

[DDP]

More from Harry....

Hello:

10% sounds like an unusually good return, especially in an era of record low interest rates.

How does the program work?

Mind you, another good question might be, given today's low interest rates, how are banks making record profits?

Banking has changed; now, it's all about transaction fees. And, if you think that consumer banking fees are painful, commercial banking is the Financial Olympics! It's astonishing how much money goes sideways to middlemen, managers, lawyers and lenders.

On the bright side, another change in the financial world is the growth of crowd-funding through which individuals invest directly in businesses, people or concepts. In real estate, syndicated mortgages have become popular, allowing individual investors to participate in development financing and earn attractive returns.

However, most syndications are actually third or fourth mortgages, behind a large bank loan. Yes the return is higher, but the security is reduced.

Given the multiple layers of funding, you can imagine the overall fees and interest.

Stinson Properties has created a unique new program that improves the terms for investors and for the developer (....but not the bankers).
The syndicated mortgage is in first position (there is no bank mortgage).
Investors can spread their subscription over 18 months.
The more an individual invests, the higher the return (from 8% to 12%).
RRSP and TFSA funds can also be used.
Investor funds are 125% secured by pre-sales.
Minimum investment is only $25,000.
3 year term.
The project is already fully approved and underway.
Stinson Properties is a boutique builder, not a broker or lender, and the funds are directly mortgage-secured against a specific project.

The builder does not earn it's profit until after the investor mortgage is repaid. This provides extra security for the investor and motivation for the builder.

Learn more about the program - and ask questions directly to the builder - at a private seminar.

WHEN: Saturday, October 10th, 2015

TIME: 9.30 to 10.30 a.m.

WHERE: Hilton Garden Inn, 100 Traders Blvd, (Hurontario and Derry Road), Mississauga, ON L4Z 2H7

ROOM: The Ontario Room

RSVP by return e-mail ( info@stinsonschool.com ) or by phone 289-389-1377.

Regards,

Harry

[matt602]

So sketchy.

[HillStreetBlues]

That kind of stuff makes me want to throw up.

[fizzle]

Originally Posted by DDP

More from Harry....

Hello:

10% sounds like an unusually good return, especially in an era of record low interest rates.

How does the program work?

Mind you, another good question might be, given today's low interest rates, how are banks making record profits?

Banking has changed; now, it's all about transaction fees. And, if you think that consumer banking fees are painful, commercial banking is the Financial Olympics! It's astonishing how much money goes sideways to middlemen, managers, lawyers and lenders.

On the bright side, another change in the financial world is the growth of crowd-funding through which individuals invest directly in businesses, people or concepts. In real estate, syndicated mortgages have become popular, allowing individual investors to participate in development financing and earn attractive returns.

However, most syndications are actually third or fourth mortgages, behind a large bank loan. Yes the return is higher, but the security is reduced.

Given the multiple layers of funding, you can imagine the overall fees and interest.

Stinson Properties has created a unique new program that improves the terms for investors and for the developer (....but not the bankers).
The syndicated mortgage is in first position (there is no bank mortgage).
Investors can spread their subscription over 18 months.
The more an individual invests, the higher the return (from 8% to 12%).
RRSP and TFSA funds can also be used.
Investor funds are 125% secured by pre-sales.
Minimum investment is only $25,000.
3 year term.
The project is already fully approved and underway.
Stinson Properties is a boutique builder, not a broker or lender, and the funds are directly mortgage-secured against a specific project.

The builder does not earn it's profit until after the investor mortgage is repaid. This provides extra security for the investor and motivation for the builder.

Learn more about the program - and ask questions directly to the builder - at a private seminar.

WHEN: Saturday, October 10th, 2015

TIME: 9.30 to 10.30 a.m.

WHERE: Hilton Garden Inn, 100 Traders Blvd, (Hurontario and Derry Road), Mississauga, ON L4Z 2H7

ROOM: The Ontario Room

RSVP by return e-mail ( info@stinsonschool.com ) or by phone 289-389-1377.

Regards,

Harry

Sounds like someone can't get bank financing.

Has the Gibson School project started yet?

[matt602]

Originally Posted by fizzle

Sounds like someone can't get bank financing.

Has the Gibson School project started yet?

Nope. Only thing they've done is remove trees from the front yard and sandblast half the bricks on the front facade. There's still that window that I posted about being wide open from a year ago too, probably causing some serious mold on the inside of the building.

I'm expecting the school to go up for sale again within 2 years. He bit off more than he can chew. Might even see the Stinson school go with it.

[fizzle]

Originally Posted by matt602

Nope. Only thing they've done is remove trees from the front yard and sandblast half the bricks on the front facade. There's still that window that I posted about being wide open from a year ago too, probably causing some serious mold on the inside of the building.

I'm expecting the school to go up for sale again within 2 years. He bit off more than he can chew. Might even see the Stinson school go with it.

Remember this?

The Stinson Buyback Plan

That was almost a year and a half ago. The conversion hasn't even begun.

I said this in February about this scheme:

This dude, with a straight face, is telling people to transfer their investments from RRSPs into this thing. And his reasoning? Your RRSP is making you "0.5 to 1%" annually, versus the "10 to 12% or more" you'll make off this project.

Listen, you can call me a hater or whatever. This dude is a snake oil salesman. The ENTIRE premise of this builder buyback thing is that he will be able to flip units after construction for more than what they're listed at today. And he'll do it within 3 years.

This could conceivably work in a market like downtown Toronto where there would be incredible demand for a loft condo like Gibson - but there's the rub - a loft condo like Gibson wouldn't need this type of scheme to get off the ground in the first place because banks would lend that money in a heartbeat for a project like it in a good location.

I also am a big believer in prior experience driving future predicition - did this 'post-construction' appreciate happen at Stinson School Lofts? Absolutely not. In fact, there are still lofts for sale FROM THE BUILDER at Stinson School Lofts. I wrote a post a while ago about how disastrous that entire pricing structure was.

And now he's using 3 years as a timeline for construction when the last project went what, 5 years? What happens when in order to make his 3 year timeline so he doesn't have to pay annualized 10% borrowing costs to investors, he rushes the whole thing and you end up with a shit place.

So he's got 1 1/12 years to get the entire project completed in order to make this plan work under his numbers. I'm sure the quality will be outstanding. Assuming it ever gets finished.

And he's been proposing people put their RRSP money into this stuff.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by fizzle

Remember this?

So he's got 1 1/12 years to get the entire project completed in order to make this plan work under his numbers. I'm sure the quality will be outstanding. Assuming it ever gets finished.

And he's been proposing people put their RRSP money into this stuff.

If he were selling securities, he would have lost his license for this kind of stuff (comparing the returns of investments with different risk profiles; suggesting the future returns of a product). Since it's real estate, he can say whatever he likes, unfortunately.

[DDP]

There is a new agent "Bob Van" something or other.
My name was on the list as I went to see this place in late fall as a rental - still about 10 for sale and many for rent. Guess Harry finally decided to let a pro put these on the market and pay a commission.

[Berklon]

^ I think he's tried everything except, ya know, dropping the actual price.

[DDP]

Originally Posted by Berklon

^ I think he's tried everything except, ya know, dropping the actual price.

You would think with the carrying costs he would sooner rather than later. Getting harder to get mortgages now too - plus investors will likely just by a house for the same/less money.

Any progress on Gibson school? He has been talking about that for 2 years or so.

[thistleclub]

Heritage panel places hurdle before Stinson condo project
(Hamilton Spectator, Steve Arnold, Mar 27 2016)

The guardians of Hamilton's old buildings have invoked the most frightening words a developer can hear about Harry Stinson's latest project — "heritage designation."

Stinson wants to turn an abandoned Barton Street East inner city school into a collection of condos selling as high as $440,000 each, but the plan has come up against the Hamilton Municipal Heritage Committee.

In a report going to the city planning committee and from there to city council, the heritage committee says the former Gibson School has historical features worth saving and heritage designation is the way to preserve them.

"The former school is historically related to its surroundings, constructed at a time when Hamilton was expanding eastward and many new neighbourhoods were constructed, and large schools were needed to serve these expanding areas," the report states.

The school was built in the Edwardian Classicism style, a style defined by the use of brick, understated details and many large windows.

"The building contains several features that demonstrate craftsmanship and artistic merit, including minimal or understated decorative detail inspired by classical conditions," and was likely designed by Hamilton architects Walter Wilson Stewart and William Palmer Witton.

Their firm, Stewart and Witton, designed many of the city's schools, homes, churches and public buildings during the first 13 years of the 20th century.

"The former Gibson School has heritage value as a contributor to the Hamilton public education system for nearly 100 years," the report adds.

Gibson operated from 1914 to 2009, but a school had operated on the site — Barton Street East between Gibson and Birch — since as early as 1854.


Read it in full here.