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  #46141  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 4:54 AM
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Otis Criblecoblis Otis Criblecoblis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillinGlendaleCA View Post
In addition to the stones from the retaining wall, there's this:
_B030221.jpg by BillinGlindaleCA, on Flickr
Reet! But I thought it would be fun for someone else to bring it up.
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  #46142  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 4:58 AM
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
But tell us how you feel about the green fingernail Lwize.

[IMG]GIF of Margaret Hamilton in green-face[/IMG]
I hadn't noticed.

But my fear of GIFs is well documented.
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  #46143  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 6:57 AM
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I made it through your MONSTER PARAGRAPH odinthor



ok, not funny


I found a highly detailed article [c.1888] that recounts the history of the Coronel Abode, ground zero for the Chinese Massacre. (the adobe was being torn down at the time)
The author even talked to participants in the massacre. [that's possible since it was written in 1888 ]

Just so you know odinthor, your information is pretty much spot on. (except for a few small details)

Quote:
Originally Posted by odinthor View Post
Chinese Massacre details vary concerning this affair depending upon the person reporting, but the general outlines are clear; as background, first let us note in our entries above under heading Chinese, the public irritations of 1869 and 1870, as well as that competing tongs dominated the respective opposing lines of buildings on the east side and west side of Calle de los Negros; October 21, 1871, conflict in the Calle de los Negros area between two tongs over the abduction of a woman to Santa Barbara (or perhaps San Diego), Yo Hing being head of one tong, Ah Choy being the offending member of another tong; J.P. Widney recalled that Chinese domestics had been mentioning an upcoming “war” and noted that gunsmiths were selling out of their wares to the Chinese in the weeks preceding; the tong losing the woman had a warrant issued for her arrest on an accusation of stealing jewelry, and she was arrested and returned to L.A.; as the vehicle conveying her to jail approached its destination in L.A., a mob of armed Chinese from both tongs gathered in the street, violence being averted only by the exertions of the city marshal’s tiny police force; October 23, 1871, Ah Choy was arrested on the complaint of Yo Hing and, morning of the 24th, released by Judge W.H. Gray on bail, the bond being provided by Sam Yung; afternoon, complaint sworn out against Sam Yung, ev. concerning disturbing the peace; about 4 o’clock p.m. October 24, 1871, conflict began anew, ev. with the attempt, perhaps by Robert Thompson (who had just retired from the police force), or perhaps by policeman Jesus Bilderrain seconded by Thompson, or perhaps by Thompson ultimately seconded by Bilderrain (see below), to serve the warrant upon Yung at his store in the old Coronel adobe at the northwest corner of Calle de los Negros and Los Angeles St. (Workman notes “The adobe, which was bounded on all four sides by alleys or streets, was Chinese headquarters”; at some point, it was also “Tao’s Gambling House”) (gambling is mentioned extensively in the article. It says almost the entire wooden floor was stained with blood. The Coronel Adobe was also a Dance Hall]; police (Jesus Bilderrain) responded, with the assistance of citizens (Bilderrain’s 15-year-old brother, among others), Thompson being shot to death by a Chinese, perhaps Sam Yung, in the store, with Jesus Bilderrain being wounded in the shoulder, some bystanders such as the boy “Juan Jose Mendible” (perhaps our Jose Mendiblez) being wounded as well by other gun-wielding Chinese; by 4:30 or 5, October 24, 1871, a frenzied and armed mob of about a thousand “of the scum and dregs of the city” (*HN), or indeed 3,000 (*W), assembled around Calle de los Negros, the Plaza, and Los Angeles St., at which point a Chinese armed with a hatchet was observed trying to escape across Los Angeles St., only to be captured by Romo Sortorel; policeman Emil Harris rescued the Chinese, who later however was then re-taken by part of the mob and lynched at Tomlinson’s Corral; [the article is very specific on this first hanging. It says this was the only hanging that occurred at Tomlinson's EAST gate a shot was heard about this time—from which side?—which triggered an onslaught of gunfire from the crowd towards the adobe; meantime, other Chinese were being taken and hanged near Goller’s wagon shop, at the southwest corner of Los Angeles St. and Commercial St. the article fails to mention Goller's wagon shop but the location is the same), between up-ended wagons or from the cross-beam of a gateway, nearby hardware shop owner John D. Hicks evidently turning the event to a profit by selling rope to the lynchers; another nineteen were lynched (I thought the grand total was nineteen?) in front of Slaney’s boot store at another corner (or perhaps the same corner) of L.A. St. and Commercial; yet more were hanged from the crossbeam at the entrance to the Tomlinson corral at Justicia and Temple Sts. (The entrance to the corral would be the east gate, right? The newspaper article says these four hangings occurred at the west gate of the corral); the authorities (Sheriff Burns [late to arrive], A.J. King [who wounded himself preparing for the conflict]) and those seeking to maintain calm (Emil Harris [as above], Henry Hazard [insufficiently persuasive to the crowd], R.M. Widney as president of the Law and Order party, J.P. Widney) were largely unsuccessful in their efforts, though Slaney was able to save his Chinese employees by locking them in his store, and twenty-one Chinese were lodged in jail for safe-keeping through the efforts of the Widneys and their assistants; during the mêlée, Mayor Cristobal Aguilar supposedly rode up, surveyed the scene, and quietly rode away; October 25, 1871, coroner’s inquest concerning the “twenty-two or more victims” (*HN); August 2, 1872, four Chinese priests from San Francisco came to conduct lamentation services; “There are certain persons in Los Angeles who were helping to murder Chinamen that night who hold their heads high to-day [1889]” (*Ill:250)*Ill, *HN, *HB2, *W; see also entries for those named above, plus those for Henry C. Austin, John M. Baldwin, George W. Barter, William R. Bettis, Botello, S.B. Caswell, John Downey, James Goldworthy, Gray, John D. Hicks, Joseph Kurtz, J. Lazarovich, Harris Newmark, Cameron E. Thom, C. White, W.W. Widney; further dramatic reading in Overland Monthly (1886, p.231 ff.), how faithful to truth, we cannot say; J.P. Widney’s calm but indignant response to Bancroft’s version will be found in the Los Angeles Times of July 23, 1888.

Thus, the entry in my notes. Seems to me that I tracked down a list of the victims; but I haven't added it to the entry yet.
(the names of the Chinese victims are included in the newspaper article)
Here's the link to the article. Los Angeles Herald January 13, 1888


Or you can read it below (it's a tad bit blurry to my eyes)






The Coronel Adobe.

Photo by Godfry / water & power


_

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Mar 26, 2018 at 11:17 PM.
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  #46144  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaudry View Post
Well since we're on the subject, let me a toss a couple out there. Of course these are not of similar vintage (about twenty years later), or built for similar purpose (apartments and not single-family home) and certainly not of that wonderful elegant Greek Doric but—

nhm
505-511 N Bunker Hill

nhm
Colonial Apts, 314 South Grand, ca. 1902

calstatelib
Alta Vista, 255 S Bunker Hill, 1902

mine
The Nugent, 257 S Grand, Robert E Nelson, 1903

mine
The Touraine, 447 S Hope, AL Haley, 1903

cal state library
The Marcella, 223 S Flower, Garrett & Bixby, 1904


csl
The Carleton, 236 N Grand, W C Dickerson, 1905


Majestic Apts, 700 W First, Milan Holmes, 1905 lapl

nhm
The Ryer, 321 S Grand, Fred Dorn, 1904

Again, you'll notice there's no Doric involved—save perhaps for the Maxine (722 W First, Garrett & Bixby, 1911):

lapl

But this is a later shot, and I'm not altogether sold that it wasn't originally Corinthian, and remodeled this way, as happened (like so) to a few other structures.
Wow, what a fantastic post, Beaudry! Truly a fine collection of buildings.

I wonder why there are so many Ionic and Corinthian capitals, and no Doric capitals (other than, perhaps, the Maxine) - perhaps the architects felt that Doric columns were too "plain"..?

How many buildings are there still standing in LA that feature columns like in the photographs above? I mentioned the Farmers and Merchants Bank, but to perhaps be a bit pedantic, those are engaged columns, not free-standing columns. And I'm not talking about modern "McMansion" houses with ugly, horrific, tacky, fake columns, either.

The following buildings are all still standing -

There's the Hollywood Masonic Temple, now home to the Jimmy Kimmel Show:

LADWP

And of course, there's the Getty Villa, in Malibu:

Wikipedia

If you head out to Pasadena, there's the old B.P.O.E. on Colorado:

LADWP

There's the old Masonic Temple, also in Pasadena:

LINK

And there's the Christian Science Church located at 946 West Adams Boulevard:

LADWP

There are probably more that I don't know about/can't remember. But as to the buildings above, all of them are for public gatherings, not like the beautiful old residences on Bunker Hill.
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  #46145  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 11:29 AM
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Corner turrets

It's so sad that LA seems to have no respect or reverence for its history. At times, it seems like entire schools of architecture have been completely eradicated - look at one of those late 19th/early 20th century photos of Broadway - there's nothing that looks like that anymore!

Recently, I started thinking about corner turrets. They used to be ubiquitous in LA. But where can you even see a corner turret nowadays? These are the only remaining ones that I can think of:

There's the old Charnock Building at Fifth and Main:

LINK
LINK

There's the Boyle Hotel at 101 North Boyle Avenue:

LINK and GSV

And then there's Frank Sabichi's Cast Iron Commercial Building - I couldn't find a vintage photo of this building, but here is its location on Google Street View:

GSV

Frank Sabichi has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I think(?) that this may be the first appearance of the Cast Iron Commercial Building on NLA. Here's an interesting web page about the Cast Iron Commercial Building: http://bigorangelandmarks.blogspot.com/

Are these the only remaining corner turrets in the downtown area? (not including the number of Queen Anne Revival style houses that are somewhat nearby) I haven't given the question any serious thought, but the examples above are the only ones that come quickly to mind... I may be forgetting some really obvious ones, which would be embarrassing...

PS: What kind of JERK would climb up on the top of the turret to spray paint some meaningless garbage on it? You'd have to tiptoe around the thing like Obi Wan Kenobi shutting down the tractor beam on the Death Star! I hope the idiot tagger fell off the roof and into a truck full of dung!

20th Century Fox
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  #46146  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Charles View Post

And then there's Frank Sabichi's Cast Iron Commercial Building - I couldn't find a vintage photo of this building, but here is its location on Google Street View:

GSV
I found this 1965 William Reagh photo showing the corner of S San Pedro and Agatha Streets. For some reason it's much smaller than most of LAPL's images, so I enlarged it.


LAPL
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  #46147  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Scott Charles, thanks for adding Poundcake Hill and Normal Hill to your very informative map.


Scott Charles


Here's an amazing photograph that I don't recall seeing.


i.pin.mg.com

"Hanging by vigilantes on Poundcake Hill, Los Angeles" (Correction: the actual hanging is taking place at the bottom of the hill. The spectators are on the hill)

It appears the body has already been cut down.




This next photograph I remember seeing. No doubt because you can still see Lacherais' body hanging.


USC

"Photograph of a crowd at the lynching of Miguel Lashenais (sp?) on the corner of Temple Street and New High (Justica) Street, Los Angeles, 1870.

A crowd gathers around the gate to the lumber yard. Lashenais, who was lynched for killing Jacob Bell, hangs from the archway.
Many people towards the outside of the crowd simply sit, watching. Tents and other spectators can be seen on the Poundcake Hill in the background.
The hill would later become the site of the Court House and then the Criminal Courts Building."

USC

ok...I'm confused.

I thought Poundcake Hill became the site of the High School. (I'm going to be embarrassed if I'm wrong)


The walking tour site of KEN GONZALES-DAY has a altogether different location for the Lacherais hanging. [see below]

"Near the corner North Broadway and Temple was the original location of the Tomlinson & Griffith Corral. The high beam of its gate, and an angry mob,
claimed the life of "Michael Lachenais" in 1870. Historian Harris Newmark and others have argued that as many as a dozen men dies at this site."


A dozen men!? Could the top photograph be of a different hanging at the same location? Hence it's vague description.

And I should add: Another site has the Lecherais lynching taking place at Phinias Banning's Corral. [not the Tomlinson & Griffith Corral]



Added note:

Lacherais is sometimes spelled Lecherais.... USC spelled it 'Lashenais'

I used Jacob Bell (the name of the well known victim) to find most of this information.
Michael Lachenais, (Armand Josef Michel Lachenais) was born in France in about 1827 and appears in the Census in 1860 living in Los Angeles with his wife Maria and a daughter Sarafina. He was noted to be a farm laborer. His wife was born in California. There are naturalization records which show he was a naturalized citizen as of January 1870.



We had previously discussed this hanging on page 901
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  #46148  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
-








I made it through your MONSTER PARAGRAPH odinthor



ok, not funny


I found a highly detailed article [c.1888] that recounts the history of the Coronel Abode, ground zero for the Chinese Massacre. (the adobe was being torn down at the time)
The author even talked to participants in the massacre. [that's possible since it was written in 1888 ]

Just so you know odinthor, your information is pretty much spot on. (except for a few small details)



Here's the link to the article. Los Angeles Herald January 13, 1888


Or you can read it below (it's a tad bit blurry to my eyes)






The Coronel Adobe.

Photo by Godfry / water & power


_
Great work, e_r! Thanks! (My notes are fluid and not necessarily self-consistent, conducted in a personal version of the Wikipedia manner: Always adding, revising, correcting as new info comes in.)

The main entrance of the corral question is a good one. Though, considering where the "doing stuff" part of town was, it would make sense for the corral entrance to be on the east, the main entrance could be the west entrance (across from the Bilderrains') if the east edge of the corral backed on town structures. I wonder how far to the east (i.e., towards Main St.) the corral extended?

edit add: PS: Yes, right about eyes. I couldn't even force myself to read it to edit it as I usually do with such snippets from my Notes.
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  #46149  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 5:35 PM
Martin Pal Martin Pal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mstimc View Post
Just FYI, the American Heroes Channel (spinoff of the History Channel) had a very good episode of "Wartime Crime" on the Zoot Suit Riots. Did a nice job explaining the locations with quite a few then/now location shots. And also an honest discussion of just how discriminatory L.A. (and California) was in the first half of the 20th century. And some very noir period photos, too!
Thanks for that info...I went to the AHC website to see if I could watch the episode, but apparently my "service provider" doesn't carry this spinoff channel and so it wouldn't let me.

Have you ever seen PBS's American Experience episode about the Zoot Suit Riots? If so, I wonder how it compares to this one?
I believe PBS has it available on their website, but someone also posted it on youtube:

Video Link
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  #46150  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingwedge View Post
The oil derricks are west of Bunker Hill, more or less in the area around Court and Toluca Streets, I guess. At upper right
must be the Sisters' Hospital aka Los Angeles Infirmary.


The Seaver Center says this photo of Sisters' Hospital, looking at the front of the building, was taken in 1886:



"The Sisters Hospital" @ Seaver Center


1888 Sanborn:



ProQuest via LAPL


Here's a photo of Sisters' Hospital that I don't think we've seen before. It is dated c. 1886-90 and looks SE from N. Beaudry
down at the hospital on the right. The west sides of Fort Moore Hill and Bunker Hill are visible in the distance:



486753 @ Huntington Digital Library


This is a close-up from the above photo. I have placed a red dot over what I believe is the F. U. Berke residence
at the NW corner of 2nd Street and Bunker Hill Avenue:




Below is the hospital on the 1906 Sanborn. I believe the angled wing at the top was built in 1901-02. The BLVD marked
at lower left is Sunset Blvd. I think what's marked N. Beaudry here (and on the 1888 map) is now White Knoll Drive:



ProQuest via LAPL



This postcard view shows the 1901-02 wing (I believe the hospital was remodeled at the same time) from Sunset Blvd.:

Thanks, FW, much appreciated!
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  #46151  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2018, 11:39 PM
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[QUOTE=ethereal_reality;8127001]mystery location

"1940s RPPC (real photo postcard) Presbyterian Conference Grounds, Pacific Palisades CA"


EBAY


This is absolutely Temescal Gateway Park. My wife and I got married there 25 years ago under an Oak Tree and I recognized it immediately.
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  #46152  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 1:04 AM
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How romantic KevinW




'mystery' location(s)

"3 Original 1953 35mm Kodachrome slides - Unknown Los Angeles residential street scenes" EBAY

#1

EBAY




#2

EBAY






#3

EBAY

I believe this is a badly framed view of a Christmas Tree lot.

(I'm not sure what that dark shape is (to me it looks like a DoDo Bird)

_____________________________________________________________





This slide is being sold separately.

"Orig 1953 35mm Kodachrome slide - Young man with car in Los Angeles" EBAY


EBAY

As you can see; the building in the background is the same building that appears in slide #1

Does this area look familiar to anyone?


__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Mar 27, 2018 at 1:22 AM.
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  #46153  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 1:23 AM
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^^^Somewhere on Burton Way within LA city limits... I can't read the block number on the street sign.

Ah, Burton and Willaman.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0721...2!8i6656?hl=en
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  #46154  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 1:53 AM
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Thanks sopas ej. Good Eye buddy.



Here's the front of the building facing Willaman Drive.


GSV

It's much more interesting than I was expecing.

A mid-century streamline moderne building? (the slides were 1953)



update:
The property was built in 1948.redfin

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Mar 27, 2018 at 2:03 AM.
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  #46155  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 2:50 AM
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330 S. Almont Drive

Seven blocks to the west, on the NE corner of Burton and Almont, we have a twin to the building at Burton and Willaman:



Mar 2015 GSV

The Certificate of Occupancy for 330 S. Almont Drive is dated January 3, 1948. Hannah Schwartz is the owner.

I notice now that the windows on Almont/Willaman are a little different, but those facing Burton Way look the
same on both buildings.

Here is a building permit apparently dated Oct 7, 1946 (it's listed at LADBS as Oct 8) to change the stairway at
330 S. Willaman. There is a BP definitely dated Oct 8, 1946, to change the stairway at 330 S. Almont, also by
architect Paul R. Williams:



LADBS

Last edited by Flyingwedge; Mar 27, 2018 at 3:30 AM. Reason: add stuff
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  #46156  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 3:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Pal View Post
Thanks for that info...I went to the AHC website to see if I could watch the episode, but apparently my "service provider" doesn't carry this spinoff channel and so it wouldn't let me.

Have you ever seen PBS's American Experience episode about the Zoot Suit Riots? If so, I wonder how it compares to this one?
I believe PBS has it available on their website, but someone also posted it on youtube:

Video Link
Interesting, Martin. The AHC show said the crime was never solved, but this one names the perp (or so it claims). Both described the discriminatory atmosphere, bit the AHC version, given the nature of the channel, put a little more emphasis on geography and history--showing you where things happened.

Oddly enough, my old man was a sailor in L.A. in WW II. But he has an alibi. He married my mother on Valentine's Day 1942 and was basking in an all-expenses paid cruise of the Solomon Islands during the murder and riots, courtesy of the U.S. Navy and Japanese Fleet. Good thing, too. My mother had no tolerance for racial prejudice and would have smacked the crap out of him if he joined in.
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  #46157  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 3:37 AM
Noir_Noir Noir_Noir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingwedge View Post
Seven blocks to the west, on the NE corner of Burton and Almont, we have a twin to the building at Burton and Willaman:



Mar 2015 GSV

The Certificate of Occupancy for 330 S. Almont Drive is dated January 3, 1948. Hannah Schwartz is the owner.

I notice now that the windows on Almont/Willaman are a little different, but those facing Burton Way look the
same on both buildings.

Here is a building permit apparently dated Oct 7, 1946 (it's listed at LADBS as Oct 8) to change the stairway at
330 S. Willaman. There is a BP definitely dated Oct 8, 1946, to change the stairway at 330 S. Almont, also by
architect Paul R. Williams:



LADBS
The Almont Drive version was given Historic-Cultural Monument status in 2011 as a "notable work of a master builder, designer, or architect, Paul R. Williams."

From the application for HCM -

"While not the subject of the application and request before the Commission, Paul R. Williams also designed a nearby building at 330 S. Willaman Drive. It appears to be the same design; however, it has had some original windows replaced and does not appear to be as intact as the subject property. "

http://clkrep.lacity.org/onlinedocs/...chc_4-5-11.pdf
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  #46158  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 6:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Yes, I see that now. I went back and reread your post after Bill informed me.

To be honest, I've been thrown for a loop with my electricity sporadically going off and on and the recent arguments on the thread.
One reason the thread has been going strong for nearly a decade is because we avoid extreme rhetoric and hot button topics [like politics]



I think this is a wonderful photograph.


EBAY

"1940 African American Asian Lady Nadine Los Angeles photo booth"

"Nadine, an African American woman is in the booth. She wears a beautiful fur trim coat and head wrap
and a festive pine cone and fake fruit pin. Her name and address is on back in pencil."


but the seller didn't include the address (or the lady's last name) -it might have just said 'Nadine'
Yes, ER, this page is truly a refuge. I was a single mom for 12 years and for many of those years I sought solace here for many an evening of free and restful entertainment . It's a rare and wonderful place, this page
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  #46159  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 6:21 AM
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That's very kind of you to say sadykatie2. I'm sure you're a great mom.

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Mar 27, 2018 at 4:36 PM.
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  #46160  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 6:46 AM
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Here's one more 'mystery' slide before I call it a night.


"Original 35mm Slide - Man with Movie Camera, Santa Monica, Southern California 1964"


EBAY

At first I thought the building under construction was the apartment building just north of Santa Monica Canyon
but then I noticed...through the girders of the highrise...what appears to be a building with a large dome. (an old bath house near one of the old piers??)




Here's a closer look. (is that a domed building or am I seeing things?)

EBAY

That guy is the typical Dad on vacation in the 1960s. I think he's pretty cool looking.

(my dad did the exact same thing with his 8mm movie camera) -

__

Last edited by ethereal_reality; Mar 27, 2018 at 4:38 PM.
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