Mesa, Arizona - A Conservative City Success?

[CypressClinton]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

West Mesa is completely different from East Mesa. West Mesa is densely settled, lower incomes, high minority tracts with many diverse immigrant communities. EM still has open land to be developed, especially around Gateway Airport. The freeway network is in place, now they're focusing on the next generation of transportation improvements, such as, LRT and BRT.

I imagine the city will always remain conservative, unlike Tempe and Phoenix.

as cities grower denser they become more liberal. THATS A FACT. Just because Mesa has some land left to develop does not mean this process will stop. The city is in the earlier stages but it will happen. It is not written somewhere in stone that Mesa will be conservative forever.

You yourself has pointed out what has happened to West Mesa. Eventually it will happen to east mesa. Transit oriented development around the city's light rail stations will only spur the process.

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by CypressClinton

as cities grower denser they become more liberal. THATS A FACT.

There is a correlation between higher density and liberal people. The causational side of the equation has two probable theories:

1. People who are already liberal seek out high-density living arrangements because their more egalitarian and multicultural outlook causes them to seek places where they can be exposed to a wider variety of different cultures, beliefs and points of view.

2. High density itself is a liberalizing force, because living amongst people from a wide variety of different backgrounds exposes someone to a wider variety of cultural viewpoints, enhances one's critical thinking skills, and causes one to be more skeptical of authority.

Not sure which one is true. I incline toward the first one, but it may be a blend of both.

[soleri]

I find it difficult to believe Mesa will ever become truly liberal. The problem is that while it has dense census tracts, it's among people least likely to vote, particularly Hispanics. Moreover, density alone doesn't point out how liberal cities also tend to attract creative-class types, Millenials, gays, and other urban populations. The fact is that Mesa is not urban in any conventional sense of the word. It's highly segregated not only according to race and ethnicity but economic class as well. The higher-income parts of Mesa are very conservative along with the older retiree populations in the unending mobile-home parks.

Mesa is not unusual in Arizona for having few if any urban neighborhoods. And there are no urban retail districts despite the best efforts to revitalize Main Street into something like one. Tempe has a large liberal professional class due to ASU and Phoenix has older estabished neighborhoods with working professionals, gays, and young people . Even so, Phoenix is probably the least liberal large city in America (+ 750,000). Arizona is a red state because of that. Phoenix is light blue to Mesa's deep red, and it's not enough to turn Arizona blue. Compare and contrast to liberal Denver turning Colorado blue, Portland turning Oregon blue, and Seattle turning Washington blue. Phoenix has next to no clout in its state's reactionary state legislature. And the anti-urban bias there frustrates the efforts of all cities to use various policy tools in advancing urban interests. Eventually, demographic shifts will make Arizona less hard right but in the meantime, the earth has been salted with tax cuts so deep that its unlikely Arizona will ever be able to marshall enough resources to compete with its peer states. Arizona is, in effect, a Neo-Confederate state now. There are blue islands in that red archipelago but not enough to change the state, least of all Mesa.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by strongbad635

There is a correlation between higher density and liberal people. The causational side of the equation has two probable theories:

1. People who are already liberal seek out high-density living arrangements because their more egalitarian and multicultural outlook causes them to seek places where they can be exposed to a wider variety of different cultures, beliefs and points of view.

2. High density itself is a liberalizing force, because living amongst people from a wide variety of different backgrounds exposes someone to a wider variety of cultural viewpoints, enhances one's critical thinking skills, and causes one to be more skeptical of authority.

Not sure which one is true. I incline toward the first one, but it may be a blend of both.

1b. Liberals tend to be better able to handle change and variety (per common theorizing and some studies), and therefore aren't pre-conditioned to disliking that aspect of urbanity.

[bobdreamz]

^ Is this what Mesa really looks like? Yikes!

[Phoenix22]

This is Mesa, AZ

[dc_denizen]

From the air, looks no different than Long Island or LA except for the profusion of golf courses. Definitely more progressively designed than most of the suburbs around here (no yards, 90 degree grid, houses don't all back into a wooded lot, etc).

through in a couple midrises, a couple towers, improve the pedestrian friendliness of the arterial roads and viola, Portland in the desert.

[strongbad635]

Originally Posted by mhays

1b. Liberals tend to be better able to handle change and variety (per common theorizing and some studies), and therefore aren't pre-conditioned to disliking that aspect of urbanity.

VERY true. Liberals embrace and even enjoy the quick rate of change and progress that takes place in dense urban places. People with a conservative mindset favor stability, predictability and order.

Another strike against Mesa ever becoming a more moderate or liberal city is that it is the city in Arizona with the highest percentage of Mormons. They have along history there and a famous temple.

[Kenmore]

this place looks like a craphole

[dc_denizen]

meh, looks a lot like this:

link

or this:

link

[fflint]

Wow, that aerial reveals the very worst imaginable built environment.

It's so bad that I decided to try and find something positive about Mesa's cityscape: the desert lagoons are cute. Ridiculous and wasteful, but cute.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by fflint

Wow, that aerial reveals the very worst imaginable built environment.

It's so bad that I decided to try and find something positive about Mesa's cityscape: the desert lagoons are cute. Ridiculous and wasteful, but cute.

Those lagoons are reclaimed grey water. Used for irrigation.

Their water situation is much better than SF BTW.

[Surrealplaces]

I guess it all depends on what people deem as successful. Seems to me it's more about being fiscally conservative as opposed to socially conservative, and that they've done a decent job managing their money.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Those lagoons are reclaimed grey water. Used for irrigation.

Their water situation is much better than SF BTW.

Oh, well then--waste away!

Surely there must be a better poster-boy for successful conservative cities than this ugly suburban autopia.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by fflint

Oh, well then--waste away!

Surely there must be a better poster-boy for successful conservative cities than this ugly suburban autopia.

Waste like CA? You do know that AZ sells power to CA right? Or that AZ has been banking surplus water from the Colorado into aquifers so CA won't overdraft their fair share, right?

[plinko]

Just for some (albeit old) reference, here are some photos of downtown Mesa taken in 2002. Based on the last time I was there, the built condition hasn't changed much. I know the Arts Center got built. Not sure where construction is at on the LRT extension into downtown Mesa, but current service ends 2-1/4 miles away on Main Street.























This is the tallest building in Mesa, the 16 story BofA Plaza, situated next to a practually dead mall about 3 miles from downtown.


To me Mesa is and always will be a place to for two kinds of people: Those who can't afford Tempe/Gilbert; and retirees who want to live near a major hospital but don't like things like property taxes and paying for social services. To be fair, it's a massive city no doubt. And the schools, at least on the eastern side, are decent. But I would never live out there. A guaranteed hellish commute on either the Superstition or 202, a total dearth of unique dining options with a couple of exceptions downtown, and very little natural beauty unless you start getting out towards Usury Pass / Red Mountain.

As a former East Valley kid, I don't think I could ever live east of the 101.

[AviationGuy]

Originally Posted by bobdreamz

^ Is this what Mesa really looks like? Yikes!

Not any part of Mesa I've ever seen. Did someone say this was taken in Mesa? Looks more like some of the more affluent areas of PHX, which might explain the sign on the hillside.

[Leo the Dog]

That picture is actually located on the far eastern fringe of Mesa. I don't think it's even within the city limits.

[Phoenix22]

Originally Posted by fflint

Wow, that aerial reveals the very worst imaginable built environment.

It's so bad that I decided to try and find something positive about Mesa's cityscape: the desert lagoons are cute. Ridiculous and wasteful, but cute.

we conserver more water than all CAlifornia

I have lived here in AZ for 9 years, I don't know what water restriction is here

However after living in South Florida, North Carolina, I know I had water restriction there. that is ridiculous states with a lot of water with water restriction

I lived in the bay area for a few year long time ago and I still go there sometime

but the city of Mesa or Phoenix is 100 times cleaner that there and the quality of the freeways and street is 1000 times better

every time I go to LA and I see those crapy freeways it make me feel like I am in third world country

[Phoenix22]

more of Mesa