TORONTO 2016 – Nightsky’s trip to the incredible Canadian metropolis - Page 7

MonkeyRonin · #**121** Posted **Dec 6, 2016, 6:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well, this was in 1990:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/05/28...rested-madonna

While Toronto isn't boring or stodgy, it is probably wound up a little tighter than some other places.

Keep in mind the distinction between what happens at the administrative and at the grassroots level. And starting in the 50s, Toronto had a strong counter-cultural element that began a decades-long contenious relationship with the old Tory ruling class - and probably made it more exciting (and less "sterile") than it would have been with a more permissive administration. The vibrant youth culture of the latter half of the 20th century wasn't born of harmonious co-existence, after all.

This was happening in the 1950s: http://www.tiff.net/films/a-cool-sound-from-hell

What's arguably changed since the start of the 21st century is that that formerly counter-cultural element has supplanted the old Anglo establishment as the dominant class.

But in any case, none of that is necessarily reflective of "sterility" either way, at least how I'd use the word. It's not a judgement of political/social orientation or nightlife, but of the appearance, atmosphere, and lifestyle of a place. And to that end, sterile is just about the last thing I'd call Toronto, now or then. It can be ugly, mismanaged, inefficient, hapzard, and messy, but it sure as hell ain't sterile.

softee · #**122** Posted **Dec 6, 2016, 10:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Toronto has changed massively in the last 15 years. Back in the 90s it was as interesting as burnt toast. I tried moving here twice but was bored out of my skull. In 2001, I gave it one last shot and noticed a sea change happening. I haven't been disappointed.

I didn't think a city could completely change from one extreme to the other in such a short time, but it did.

Toronto in the 90s was pretty much just as happening and full of life as it is today, it was just less gentrified. I guess you just weren't ready to accept it for what it was or just didn't take the time to get to know the city?

That Madonna incident Acajack dug up was pretty funny considering all of the far more "immoral" activities that were regularly going on in establishments around the city at the time (and continue to this day) -- stuff that would have made Madonna blush.

The closest thing Canada had to a countercultural scene comparable to Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco was the Yorkville scene in the mid to late 60s and then Rochdale College came along and made anything going on in SF or NYC seem uptight and square by comparison.

Acajack · #**123** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 3:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Keep in mind the distinction between what happens at the administrative and at the grassroots level. And starting in the 50s, Toronto had a strong counter-cultural element that began a decades-long contenious relationship with the old Tory ruling class - and probably made it more exciting (and less "sterile") than it would have been with a more permissive administration. The vibrant youth culture of the latter half of the 20th century wasn't born of harmonious co-existence, after all.

This was happening in the 1950s: http://www.tiff.net/films/a-cool-sound-from-hell

What's arguably changed since the start of the 21st century is that that formerly counter-cultural element has supplanted the old Anglo establishment as the dominant class.

But in any case, none of that is necessarily reflective of "sterility" either way, at least how I'd use the word. It's not a judgement of political/social orientation or nightlife, but of the appearance, atmosphere, and lifestyle of a place. And to that end, sterile is just about the last thing I'd call Toronto, now or then. It can be ugly, mismanaged, inefficient, hapzard, and messy, but it sure as hell ain't sterile.

I don't know who first brought up the word sterile (it wasn't me), but it's probably just a wrong choice of words anyway.

Maybe the word (and usual slag at Toronto) that people are thinking of is "generic".

Anway, as for being "sterile" I totally agree. Toronto is far from sterile and can be pretty gritty and is even a bit of a visual hodge-podge.

Acajack · #**124** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

That Madonna incident Acajack dug up was pretty funny ..

I didn't have to dig it up. It's a part of 80s popular culture lore and is even prominently featured in a widely-seen documentary/feature film about Madonna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

considering all of the far more "immoral" activities that were regularly going on in establishments around the city at the time (and continue to this day) -- stuff that would have made Madonna blush.
.

That's kind of the point. Lots of debaucherous stuff goes on behind the scenes in any city or town anywhere. Even in Tehran.

Toronto is big enough to have basically any human behaviour going on at any given time.

But even today, Sodom and Gomorrah... it ain't. No matter what some people would like it to be and what my admittedly sarcastic signature says. Well, no city in Canada is Sodom and Gomorrah anyway. Though some might be closer than others.

MonkeyRonin · #**125** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's kind of the point. Lots of debaucherous stuff goes on behind the scenes in any city or town anywhere. Even in Tehran.

But again - going back to my earlier point, there's a distinction between activities happening in secret, behind closed doors (as it would in a repressive state like Iran); and those that are counter-cultural - something that goes against the grain of the mainstream and in opposition to the establishment, but is nonetheless widespread (as it would have been in Toronto). I mean, a place like Yorkville wasn't exactly kept in secret.

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

Toronto in the 90s was pretty much just as happening and full of life as it is today, it was just less gentrified.

Nah. There was plenty of cool stuff, but the city wasn't nearly as lively & animated - nor as built-up - as it is today. Even just a decade ago, I remember times & places where now-bustling areas could feel quiet or decrepit. Not to mention the vast parking lots that pockmarked chunks of the core.

Acajack · #**126** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 5:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

But again - going back to my earlier point, there's a distinction between activities happening in secret, behind closed doors (as it would in a repressive state like Iran); and those that are counter-cultural - something that goes against the grain of the mainstream and in opposition to the establishment, but is nonetheless widespread (as it would have been in Toronto). I mean, a place like Yorkville wasn't exactly kept in secret.

.

I guess the real question would be how much that counter-cultural scene rubbed off on the overall mainstream vibe of the city, everyone from stay at home moms to Bay St. financiers...

Acajack · #**127** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Nah. There was plenty of cool stuff, but the city wasn't nearly as lively & animated - nor as built-up - as it is today. Even just a decade ago, I remember times & places where now-bustling areas could feel quiet or decrepit. Not to mention the vast parking lots that pockmarked chunks of the core.

Never mind the 1990s. Our friend Softee probably thinks TO was like Ibiza as early as 1962...

Nightsky · #**128** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 7:27 PM**

REFERENCE LIBRARY on Yonge St:

Toronto Reference Library 107 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Reference Library 106 by Nightsky, on Flickr
The library’s atrium.

Toronto Reference Library 100 by Nightsky, on Flickr
Exterior of the Reference Library, facing Yonge St.

Toronto Reference Library 104 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Reference Library 103 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Reference Library 102 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Reference Library 101 by Nightsky, on Flickr
Pond.

Toronto Reference Library 105 by Nightsky, on Flickr
Music instruments that can be borrowed.

Toronto Reference Library 109 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Reference Library 108 by Nightsky, on Flickr
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle room.

http://www.worldtravelimages.net/Toronto_Yonge.html

Nouvellecosse · #**129** Posted **Dec 7, 2016, 8:03 PM**

Cool interior! I like the ceilings.

Nightsky · #**130** Posted **Dec 8, 2016, 1:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Cool interior! I like the ceilings.

Yes, it's like an atrium of a luxury hotel.

Nightsky · #**131** Posted **Dec 8, 2016, 1:56 PM**

OLD TORONTO: FRONT ST, ST JAMES CATHEDRAL, GOODERHAM BLDG:

Old Town 06 - Front St - St Lawrence, Gooderham Bldg by Nightsky, on Flickr
Gooderham Bldg, aka “Flatiron Bldg”, was actually built before its namne in NY.

Old Town 07 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 08b - Front St by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 09 - Gooderham Bldg, flatiron bldg from 1892 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 10 - Gooderham Bldg by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 11 - Front Street by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 12 - Maple syrup by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 13 - a Ferrari on Front St by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Bus Tour 063 - St James Cathedral by Nightsky, on Flickr

Toronto Bus Tour 065 - St James Cathedral by Nightsky, on Flickr
St James Cathedral.

http://www.worldtravelimages.net/Toronto_Oldtown.html

Nightsky · #**132** Posted **Dec 9, 2016, 11:20 PM**

MORE FROM ”OLD TORONTO”:

Toronto Bus Tour 098 - St Michaels Cathedral by Nightsky, on Flickr
St Michaels Cathedral.

Gooderham Bldg 02 -flatiron bldg from 1892 by Nightsky, on Flickr
Gooderham, Flatiron Bldg

Gooderham Bldg by Nightsky, on Flickr
Backside of Flatiron Bldg.

Toronto Bus Tour 022 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 03 by Nightsky, on Flickr

Old Town 04 - Front St and Wellington by Nightsky, on Flickr
Front St outside St Lawrence Market, looking towards Gooderham Bldg and Financial district.

Old Town 05 - Front St by Nightsky, on Flickr

http://www.worldtravelimages.net/Toronto_Oldtown.html

jdcamb · #**133** Posted **Dec 10, 2016, 12:52 AM**

Great stuff...... Thanks.

isaidso · #**134** Posted **Dec 14, 2016, 4:27 AM**

2 nice little tidbits: Al Capone once stayed at that flat iron building posted above. Toronto's flat iron building pre-dates the more famous one in New York.

Nightsky · #**135** Posted **Dec 14, 2016, 11:49 AM**

Didn't know Al Capone stayed there (was it a hotel then?), but I knew that both the one in Toronto and the one in Atlanta are older then the most famous one, the one in NY.

isaidso · #**136** Posted **Dec 15, 2016, 7:07 AM**

I believe it was a hotel when Al Capone stayed there but don't quote me on that.

Nightsky · #**137** Posted **Dec 16, 2016, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

I believe it was a hotel when Al Capone stayed there but don't quote me on that.

Ok, thank you. Anyway, this intersection one of my favourite places in Toronto, if not the world.

isaidso · #**138** Posted **Dec 18, 2016, 3:31 AM**

That's quite an accolade. I've never thought of it in those terms but it does have a lot to keep the eye engaged. I've always viewed diversity as Toronto's trump card. In this case its the collision of architectural styles. Sometimes it's chaotic and/or jarring but it's never dull.

Nightsky · #**139** Posted **Dec 21, 2016, 12:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

That's quite an accolade. I've never thought of it in those terms but it does have a lot to keep the eye engaged. I've always viewed diversity as Toronto's trump card. In this case its the collision of architectural styles. Sometimes it's chaotic and/or jarring but it's never dull.

Exactly, the mix of styles is what I like with this intersection. Unforutnaltey I didn't get the perfect pic since the sun was very low at the moment.

metalpressed · #**140** Posted **Jul 1, 2021, 7:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by softee

The closest thing Canada had to a countercultural scene comparable to Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco was the Yorkville scene in the mid to late 60s and then Rochdale College came along and made anything going on in SF or NYC seem uptight and square by comparison.

Lmao, no, it didn't. Canada was uptight and square by a factor of 10x more than the cultural centers of the US were. Think of how much the hippy counterculture in the US changed the world. Enough said.

No music genres, art styles, ways of dress, philosophies, etc, came out of Canada's comparatively tiny countercultural scene. We can name tons of music genres, art styles, philosophies, etc, that came out of America's countercultural scene.

To claim that Canada's countercultural scene surpassed NYC's or SF is laughable historical revisionism. If that were the case, Canada would have more cultural weight than it does.

Name ONE cultural innovation that came out of Canada's supposedly fruitful counterculture. I'll wait.

Meanwhile, American subcultures and countercultures largely invented the concept of what "countercultural" meant. NYC and SF had the more prominent countercultural scenes for a reason, you loser.