Official Fredericton, NB projects thread - Page 15

mylesmalley · #**281** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 7:11 PM**

I took some screen shots from Google Earth that I think do a pretty good job illustrating my point about sprawl in Freddy. All of them were taken at an elevation of 645 m, so the scale is the same with each.

For comparison, here's a shot of the North End in Moncton. Moncton's got pretty bad sprawl too, but when you compare how compact the new subdivisions in Moncton to the new ones in Freddy, you see a big difference.

Here's a bad one east of the Nashwaksis on the North Side

Here's a shot of Hanwell (I think). Anyway, it's off Hanwell Road

Even Skyline Acres and Forest Hill - both relatively new areas

This is hardly scientific, but I think it shows just how badly Fredericton is wasting land.

kirjtc2 · #**282** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 8:24 PM**

Skyline Acres actually dates from the 60s, but the point still stands. Even the first suburban neighbourhoods from the 60s (most of Nashwaaksis, anything past Kings College Road) pale in comparison to what's going on further out.

The first of those massive developments outside city limits took place in the 70s - the early ones (Chateau Heights, Island View, half of New Maryland, etc) are just a few yards beyond the city boundary. I guess someone had problems with city property taxes...

New Maryland had so many of these new subdivisions that by the late 80s they found themselves with enough people to incorporate as a village. Hanwell's been considering the idea too, and Douglas, Lincoln and Burton definitely have the population for it now.

It's a waste of space, but I guess too many people love their 1 acre lots to change. And then they complain about problems with septic tanks and how the city charges them more to use public facilities.

Moncton is probably the least-sprawly city in the region. Even the new developments are close to the city centre.

mylesmalley · #**283** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 8:44 PM**

I was more referring to how Moncton, for a city it's size, has a terrible aversion to building anything taller than 2 floors.

xxFamilyGuyxx · #**284** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 8:58 PM**

I know that the Newnan/Pepper Creek/Evergreen Area (wich are jus two feet out of the city limits) have a big enough pop. to be considered a village. Or is Newnan some kind of village already?

mylesmalley · #**285** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 9:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxFamilyGuyxx

I know that the Newnan/Pepper Creek/Evergreen Area (wich are jus two feet out of the city limits) have a big enough pop. to be considered a village. Or is Newnan some kind of village already?

There are big tax advantages to staying unincorporated. Same reason why Riverview is still a town and not a city even though it's bigger than Edmunston and Cambelton. There's often a big tax jump when you upgrade to another type of community. Though in that case, bilingualism is also an issue too.

kirjtc2 · #**286** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 9:14 PM**

Noonan is an LSD of its own, but not a village. Pepper Creek and Evergreen Park are part of the St. Mary's LSD, which also includes the area from Penniac up through Durham.

Any of these subdivisions by themselves are probably big enough to become a village - especially when you consider Meductic is one and it doesn't even have 200 people.

It will be interesting to see what changes to local governance the Liberals come up with when their report is done. I wouldn't be surprised to see more municipal amalgamations and/or a lot of these new "rural communities" springing up.

ETA: Bingo! That's why none of these places have become one - and why people move out there in the first place. Taxes!

mylesmalley · #**287** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 9:37 PM**

I have a real problem with subdivision-style construction. They keep noise and traffic (inside of them) down, but they really aren't sustainable. With a grid layout, like central Fredericton and Much of Pre-80s Moncton, it's easy to tear down old buildings and put up larger apartment complexes. Problem is, with subdivisions, they can't handle the traffic and density that they'll eventually have to hold. This inevitably just leads to more sprawl and more traffic.

kirjtc2 · #**288** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 10:01 PM**

Number-crunching time...35% of the residents of the greater Fredericton area (which for me means the Fredericton CA plus the town of Oromocto and Burton LSD) live in unincorporated areas. *All* of the LSDs listed below, except maybe Bright, have at least one of those rural subdivisions:

CITY OF FREDERICTON - 50,535

TOWN OF OROMOCTO - 8,402

VILLAGE OF NEW MARYLAND - 4,248

FIRST NATIONS
St. Mary's - 767
Kingsclear - 465
Oromocto - 284

LOCAL SERVICE DISTRICTS
Burton - 5,019 (Geary - 2,850; Burton - 2,169)
Hanwell - 4,301
St. Mary's - 4,224 (Pepper Creek/Evergreen Park/Lower St. Mary's - 1,536; Nashwaak valley - 2,688)
Douglas - 3,720 (incl. Burtts Corner)
Lincoln - 3,017
Rusagonis-Waasis - 2,747
Kingsclear - 2,388 (incl. Island View, Mazerolle Settlement)
New Maryland - 2,348 (Charters Settlement, Nasonworth, Beaverdam)
Estey's Bridge - 2,054
Bright - 1,672 (Mactaquac, Zealand, Hainesville)
Keswick Ridge - 1,487
Maugerville - 880
Noonan - 835
TOTAL - 34,692 (35%)

TOTAL AREA - 99,393

mylesmalley · #**289** Posted **Mar 27, 2008, 10:09 PM**

Madness!

cl812 · #**290** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 2:25 AM**

UNB Currie Centre Floor Plans

Ground Floor

Second Floor

Third Floor

Concourse Floor

Plaza Floor

From UNB Website: http://www.unbf.ca/CURRIE/floorplan.html

mmmatt · #**291** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 2:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirjtc2

Number-crunching time...35% of the residents of the greater Fredericton area (which for me means the Fredericton CA plus the town of Oromocto and Burton LSD) live in unincorporated areas. *All* of the LSDs listed below, except maybe Bright, have at least one of those rural subdivisions:

TOTAL AREA - 99,393

You are right, Freddy CA should include Oromocto, its like 15mins away...same as Moncton CMA should include Shediac and area. That would made Freddy 100,000 and Moncton 140,000+

mmmatt · #**292** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 2:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cl812

UNB Currie Centre Floor Plans

That looks like a really nice building...saw the sign for it on campus a few times...I had no idea it was 5 floors though thats awesome!

cl812 · #**293** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 2:34 AM**

Yeah it looks like quite the place

mmmatt · #**294** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 3:01 AM**

See this is what the CA/CMA boundries should look like, Im not sure about Saint John if there is another community that should be added to its CMA. But I know with Freddy and Moncton most people that live within these surrounding areas work in the larger cities. Notice if you add Shediac etc to Monctons CMA its still 500km2 smaller than SJs CMA and about 1800km2 smaller than Freddys.

Moncton + Shediac and surrounding area - 143,078 (exact) - 2,885km2 (exact)

Saint John (CMA) - 122,389 - 3,359km2

Fredericton + Oromocto and surrounding area - 100,000 (approx) - 4,800km2 (approx)

mylesmalley · #**295** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 3:17 AM**

Not sure what I think about the Currie Centre. The school's already so far in debt - and frankly, mismanaged. should we really be spending this much money to build something that we really aren't known for?

Now a business school...that's something I could get behind!

corda · #**296** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 6:09 PM**

I remember reading about the city applying to the province to expand it's boundaries to include unincorporated land to make way for this subdivision...
http://www.colpittsdevelopments.ca/d..._siteplan.html

and even more land behind the Hanwell "Mall". I use that term loosely.
It was a key point Hanwell residents wanting to incorporate made thinking they should do it soon before the city takes over their neighborhood.

I think Hanwell should incorporate, although not for that reason alone. The population is higher than New Maryland's, it's corporate tax base and highway access are enviable of other small towns and it would be great for the area to develop amenities of their own.. parks, larger community centres, etc rather than getting in a car to use Fredericton's.
I see subdivisions on the outskirts of the city as places that will get swallowed up by Fredericton eventually.. so it would be better to have them planned by a community rather than by a developer selling acre + lots.

corda · #**297** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 6:14 PM**

and thanks for all the welcomes.

xxFamilyGuyxx · #**298** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 6:17 PM**

that subdivsion is being slowly developed right now.

xxFamilyGuyxx · #**299** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 6:20 PM**

I also found this nice aerial view of fredericton (from 1991). You can see the old train station and the train tracks where still intact.

And another one from a diffrent angle

From gnb.ca

its funny, downtown Fredericton seems so much smaller from above..

mmmatt · #**300** Posted **Mar 28, 2008, 8:01 PM**

It is a fairly small downtown when you think about it...but no smaller than that of Moncton really (Monctons its just spread across a really long street, whereas with freddy its a square) The only "real" downtown in NB is in Saint John...its basically the size of every other downtown in NB put together haha. That is of course due to SJs long history, the first incorporated city in Canada, so there are many historical buildings and a dense downtown...which is due to the style in which people developed cities back then, with a nice dense downtown...Moncton and Fredericton developed a lot more during the mid to late 20th century when a dense downtown was being fased out in favour more of a suburban style city.