Detroit - Whatever you want

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

An American horror story

I love your brutal honesty.

I'm of different minds of cities at different times:

I would imagine that a great part of me would have really, really liked Detroit at it's zenith, because I always have a really great time when I go now, and the people are killer (that's not a negative ironic comment). It feels like the purist manifestation of my personal "romanticization" of the American Dream to me at it's height, not that no other cities need apply. A tall, strong downtown, lots of optimistic new comers, breezy but tight enough neighborhoods with homes that had enough elbow room to have a really big family, clean, less coal smoke choked air (at least from the photos compared to St. Louis/Chicago), previously poor folks whose parents picked cotton or picked rocks out of some dirt farm in the hills making more money or better art than they ever imagined, and all without a college education.

Perhaps I romanticize: I feel much closer to parts of the messy 19th century in both good and bad ways than to the sure footed halcyon of the 20th. Certainly the early/mid 20th century boomtowns look much more livable and fun to me than some of the current American economic heavyweights (relatively speaking).

[ShadowMaster]

I am loving this thread man. A lot of top notch shots in here. I think we are now all Detroited up and we want more.

That is a beautiful building, the lonely castle-like structure.

[hauntedheadnc]

Every time I see one of those houses falling into ruin, I just wish I could know in an instant the whole story behind that house -- who built it, how many families lived there over the course of its existence, how many languages those families spoke, whether they were happy, what it was like to be there during special times like Christmas, all that stuff...

Then again, I wonder the same thing about any ruined house I see no matter where it is. You can find ruined cabins and houses in the woods around here, along with the occasional farmstead that's decayed to just a lonely chimney, and I would wonder the same thing about those too.

[WillPostPix]

I would have really liked to visit Detroit in earlier eras, and have always had the opinion of it as was earlier described in this thread (when I first read, before that one was edited); a tall, strong downtown, an creative core, the improvisational ability to make excellent things seemingly out of thin air, and the diversity of industry that led to it being called a "renaissance city." I have romanticized it a bit too.

I was glad to hear about the 300 billion dollar stimulus plan as part of the revitalization, and when I look at the abandoned buildings I mostly just wonder about why that seemed to be put on hold or whether and how they're planning on following up with that for revitalization. There are many historic buildings that would be important to remember and could be integrated back into the downtown metro, and it seems as if the current stasis of that just has to do with neglect. The economy there right now is all about the casinos; when we think of Detroit, we think about it in terms of gambling, as much as the abandoned buildings. And the question is: is that what it wants for its city? Why stand and watch when things fall into neglect rather than put an arm out to keep some of the historic structures from weathering, if they don't want them at all?

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by Funkie

Always love seeing Detroit from above. Even from here, the Ren Cen still dominates. I need to get me a pilots license or something.

[tallboy66]

The first pic was White Castle. LOL! I love it.



The dream is still alive as long as you can live between 7 and 8 mile or Outer Drive otherwise...

[tallboy66]

Originally Posted by LMich

Just to note, the Broderick has been under renovation for a few months, now, and the David Whitney across the street is actively being marketed for renovation. The smaller stuff, though? Yeah, I fully suspect the first three on your list to be demolished before they see the light of day again unfortunately, particularly the Lee Plaza, as it's in a location even the most hardy urban pioneer wouldn't want to be in, and the good element in the neighborhood is getting out as fast as it can. It's bad, because it's right across the street from a huge high school and on a major thoroughfare.

They tear down buildings, turn it into a parking lot or put a coming soon sign.

The pics of the projects on Lodge, half were torn down 2000/01 or so to be turned into less dense affordable apartments with a mix of single family homes. You see how well that's going.

Those downtown buildings have been vacant since the 70's and 80's and still not occupied or even re-habbed.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I just hope they can save those last contiguous mid-rise blocks downtown.

What's the status of those wall-to-wall buildings along Woodward and Washington? That would really make downtown, if at least a few streets were nice.

Woodward and Washington, really? Everything is either occupied, actively up for sale or lease, or speculators are awaiting renovation. Sometimes, I get the impression that folks think that there isn't a single block of Detroit safe from the wrecking ball. No, the low-rise commercial buildings of Woodward and Washington aren't in danger of demolition.

Tallboy,

The Woodbridge Estates is a largely successful revitalization and what HUD should be doing. The 2010 Census tract that covers the development had a population of over 1,200. This is of course far less than the peak capacity of the land, but WAY more than population of the tract when it was nearing its end at the turn of the millenia. In fact, the growth rate over the decade was nearly 500% for that tract (the old projects weren't torn down until exactly a year after the 2000 Census).

HUD's redevelopment of Jeffries East across the Lodge will also be an improvement over what was there before. These things are adding density for the fact that these projects haven't been anywhere near the capacity for decades.

[Michi]

Really great set of photos! Makes me miss my city too. Can't wait to be back!

It's great that so many fantasize about Detroit as a way of life and sense of belonging, but if you were ever to act on your fantasy, you must do so sensibly and with common sense. Recently, there was a tragic story of an Austrailian/Californian who invested deep into an eastside neighborhood. While most of his presence there was a major positive impact, the fact that one of his tenants in the historic building he was rehabilitating didn't think she had to pay him rent, she called her thug, he drove up and ended his life with a bullet to the head.

I too, fantasize about taking ownership of Detroit, but once you are a part of it, you begin to understand the realities of living there. This is a good thing since you can then pool your resources and passion to a focus that will result in positive effects that we all want to strive for.

[Michi]

[QUOTE=C.Lan;5274713]Great shots! Love this:



I have heard Detroit called "the urbexer's dream" because there are so many buildings like these. And, yes:


QUOTE]

That is the Michigan Central (train) Station. The billionnaire owner also owns the Ambassador Bridge to Canada. After many years of fighting with the US & Canadian govts to build his own 2nd, private span against the public will of the two countries, all of a sudden, out of the blue, billionnaire slumlord wants to rehabilitate the MCS...well, at least spend a ton of money putting lipstick on this pig. Sweet political move? You be the judge.

Meanwhile, the hard working middle class of this part of the city is busy revitalizing the commercial strip & homes of the neighborhood. They are even "adopting" Roosevelt Park out in front of the MCS and putting some major TLC into it, all while the billionnaire slumlord just sat there all this time. Will we take it?...sure! As a blackmail? Nope!

[Michi]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Every time I see one of those houses falling into ruin, I just wish I could know in an instant the whole story behind that house -- who built it, how many families lived there over the course of its existence, how many languages those families spoke, whether they were happy, what it was like to be there during special times like Christmas, all that stuff...

Then again, I wonder the same thing about any ruined house I see no matter where it is. You can find ruined cabins and houses in the woods around here, along with the occasional farmstead that's decayed to just a lonely chimney, and I would wonder the same thing about those too.

I think of ruin in the exact same way. I am fascinated by the tought of ruins being built as market-demanded structures at one time. What created that demand? Who was around and when was it? Why did it get built and what were the plans for use? Then, of course, wtf happened? Great mindset to be in!

[C.Lan]

[QUOTE=Michi;5274929]

Originally Posted by C.Lan

Great shots! Love this:



I have heard Detroit called "the urbexer's dream" because there are so many buildings like these. And, yes:


QUOTE]

That is the Michigan Central (train) Station. The billionnaire owner also owns the Ambassador Bridge to Canada. After many years of fighting with the US & Canadian govts to build his own 2nd, private span against the public will of the two countries, all of a sudden, out of the blue, billionnaire slumlord wants to rehabilitate the MCS...well, at least spend a ton of money putting lipstick on this pig. Sweet political move? You be the judge.

Meanwhile, the hard working middle class of this part of the city is busy revitalizing the commercial strip & homes of the neighborhood. They are even "adopting" Roosevelt Park out in front of the MCS and putting some major TLC into it, all while the billionnaire slumlord just sat there all this time. Will we take it?...sure! As a blackmail? Nope!

Thank you for filling this in. I always wonder about buildings that I see in pictures on these forums, because so often a picture just conceals the backstory on it (and the commentary doesn't exactly fill it in, for the most part). And that is an interesting story about the Michigan Central station; "lipstick on a pig" makes me think of Sarah Palin and the election year.

That's an interesting story about the revitalization in certain neighborhoods... I'm familiar enough with Detroit to know that citizens there never respond well to "blackmail" (even, to the point, of being overly proud and suspicious of anything they might see as blackmail, enough to create lasting rifts in neighborhoods). A bit like Chicago, although there they have a very different issue with blackmail from landlords; in that residents are so picky about housing that they'll put up uncomplainingly about "blackmail", including sometimes expending much too much energy rehabbing their properties without any contract of ownership, under constant reminders that rents may go up next year or they might be evicted. Although this only lasts up to a point. If the demands get too tough--which usually happens, and usually when the tenant has put up with a difficult situation uncomplainingly until the total removal of the landlord means that structural, electrical, and overall sustainability issues have gotten so overwhelming that it just seems like negligence--residents will go "Chicago style" and lock the landlord out of their apartment altogether, and rehab the interior with a generator.

(Best case scenario is when the landlord realizes his demands were too high and, for sake of the tenants and the overall structure, does something to fix it. Worst case scenario is he ditches the property and changes neighborhoods, which landlords of Chicago have been known to do when their demands were not met. The situation is always unclear and valuable.)

It's nice to think of a situation where hardworking residents instead go out and put in a lot of time and care in revitalizing the neighborhood on their own; residents of Detroit likely do this because of their love for Detroit. It would be great if blackmail hadn't been part of it, so that residents of the city, landlords, and overall government were able to make this a best-case rather than unnecessarily difficult and often incredibly painful scenario. It's always the mystery to me with Detroit: if the mayor actually did care about his residents, why has he seemingly spent all of his time lately putting in a casino economy instead of addressing issues with the people who want to live there? It makes you wonder about that Bloomberg proposal about sending over immigrants; it wouldn't have to be so dire if Detroit tried to make people who just wanted to live there, have a way to stay.

[Funkie]

Originally Posted by the pope

pictures of an international border crossing? terrorist!

you know, a security person drove up to me and forbid me to take pictures!

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Every time I see one of those houses falling into ruin, I just wish I could know in an instant the whole story behind that house -- who built it, how many families lived there over the course of its existence, how many languages those families spoke, whether they were happy, what it was like to be there during special times like Christmas, all that stuff...

Then again, I wonder the same thing about any ruined house I see no matter where it is. You can find ruined cabins and houses in the woods around here, along with the occasional farmstead that's decayed to just a lonely chimney, and I would wonder the same thing about those too.

This is exactly what draws me to Detroit the most. ill find myself standing in front of these buildings for several minutes just aweing at them. You think about the history and try to imagine how it must have been in "the good days". And since i study architecture, i think about how you could restore these homes. especially the brick homes in brush park. most people would give those up. i would want to find a way to restore them.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Michi

I think of ruin in the exact same way. I am fascinated by the tought of ruins being built as market-demanded structures at one time. What created that demand? Who was around and when was it? Why did it get built and what were the plans for use? Then, of course, wtf happened? Great mindset to be in!

Oh man, it's Michi. Haven't seen you in awhile!

[tallboy66]

Originally Posted by Funkie

you know, a security person drove up to me and forbid me to take pictures!




This is exactly what draws me to Detroit the most. ill find myself standing in front of these buildings for several minutes just aweing at them. You think about the history and try to imagine how it must have been in "the good days". And since i study architecture, i think about how you could restore these homes. especially the brick homes in brush park. most people would give those up. i would want to find a way to restore them.

If you seriously want to get involved http://www.preservationwayne.org/

Go to the 2nd ave. street festival, The Dally in the alley, eat at the Cass cafe

And LMich...I love your optimism and hope that Detroit does come back but like I said 10 years have past 200,000 MORE people have left the city. Along with the cities logic of tearing down to propose rebuilding only works partially a net loss is not a gain. At best they swap.
Tiger Stadium for Comerica park, a giant parking lot new condos and a Mc Donalds for old time bars on brick paved streets, then tear down Tiger Stadium and decimate Corktown.

[montréaliste]

Yes to Tallboy's ambivalence. There is the sad story of Mr McNicol; an australian who bought an apt bldg in february to fix up and got into an argument with a tenant who refused to pay rent; the tenant's dad showed up an shot him to death. You can have a lot of dreams about the city, but it is an unforgivingly tough place to deal with on many levels.

[LMich]

Originally Posted by tallboy66

If you seriously want to get involved http://www.preservationwayne.org/

Go to the 2nd ave. street festival, The Dally in the alley, eat at the Cass cafe

And LMich...I love your optimism and hope that Detroit does come back but like I said 10 years have past 200,000 MORE people have left the city. Along with the cities logic of tearing down to propose rebuilding only works partially a net loss is not a gain. At best they swap.
Tiger Stadium for Comerica park, a giant parking lot new condos and a Mc Donalds for old time bars on brick paved streets, then tear down Tiger Stadium and decimate Corktown.

Why do you take specific points, and then generalize them? Of course most of what has been replaced in Detroit has been subpar to be very kind. I wasn't talking about the general state of the city; I was talking specifically about your critique of the Woodbridge Estates. It'd be pretty foolish and difficult to try and make the case that they aren't better than the housing projects they replaced.

I find it kind of funny you're always wanting to lecture someone about being subjective about this place, when you're whole MO here has been to deal with the city emotionally, particularly, pessimitically as opposed to realistically.

[Funkie]

Originally Posted by tallboy66

If you seriously want to get involved http://www.preservationwayne.org/

Go to the 2nd ave. street festival, The Dally in the alley, eat at the Cass cafe

unfortunatly i live in germany. i only get to visit detroit like once a year. i which i could do something though...

[Clevelumbus]

Awesome, always great to see the 'D', good or bad!

[peanut gallery]

Thanks for the comprehensive tour. With the exception of a few empty lots, downtown looks great.