Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by osmo

$130M back then for THF isn't worth the same today. Big time increase in materials costs as well to factor in, plus debt uss more expensive. It would likely cost $150M to build THF today.

Again... "time" doesn't necessarily reflect an increase in cost

wages for trades could be lower in 2021 than 2012

if demand for trades is high at the time of quoting they will come in higher if the Halifax construction market is stagnant at the time it will come in lower.



We got an over stock of towers manufactured in china last year because steel was so cheap. It's supply and demand and its across the board. You're stuck on time = more money

it's just not the case.

Yes i do understand Inflation and over time things get more expensive over time as our economy progresses but to just slap on 55 million on a 140M price tag because "meh" is just over optimistic speculation

[blueandgoldguy]

I'm not implying anything about Halifax's ability to pay for a new stadium though I can't see much enthusiasm with the likelihood the city and province will be responsible for 90% of the cost, if not the entirety of the project.

I do not see commencement of this project for at least 2 more years - 2021. THF started construction in 2012. That would be a nine-year difference. Labour costs will have risen rather significantly in that time, especially in a market with healthy population growth and reasonable growth in the local economy as pointed out by a poster. Construction materials will have also increased in price as well over the course of a decade.

It's likely the original proposal for a $175 million stadium would have resulted in a finished product similar product as THF, which itself is a step down from IGF, even without the roof.

I imagine a $135 million stadium will have fewer seats (20,000), some bench seats (shudder), only one big screen like THF but smaller like Ottawa's, lower quality individual seating (like TD Bank Place), lower quality finishes in the suites, club areas and fewer washrooms and point-of-sales concessions. In the end, I could see something in between Saputo Stadium and Tim Hortons Field in terms of quality.

[king10]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

I'm not implying anything about Halifax's ability to pay for a new stadium though I can't see much enthusiasm with the likelihood the city and province will be responsible for 90% of the cost, if not the entirety of the project.

I do not see commencement of this project for at least 2 more years - 2021. THF started construction in 2012. That would be a nine-year difference. Labour costs will have risen rather significantly in that time, especially in a market with healthy population growth and reasonable growth in the local economy as pointed out by a poster. Construction materials will have also increased in price as well over the course of a decade.

It's likely the original proposal for a $175 million stadium would have resulted in a finished product similar product as THF, which itself is a step down from IGF, even without the roof.

I imagine a $135 million stadium will have fewer seats (20,000), some bench seats (shudder), only one big screen like THF but smaller like Ottawa's, lower quality individual seating (like TD Bank Place), lower quality finishes in the suites, club areas and fewer washrooms and point-of-sales concessions. In the end, I could see something in between Saputo Stadium and Tim Hortons Field in terms of quality.

I’d think it would be somewhere in between the original BMO field($70M) and THF($140M) Saputo is extremely bare bones and came in at around $50M after renos.

Theres nothing wrong with that to start. If the CFL team is a success they can make improvements like what was done to BMO.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by king10

I’d think it would be somewhere in between the original BMO field($70M) and THF($140M) Saputo is extremely bare bones and came in at around $50M after renos.

Theres nothing wrong with that to start. If the CFL team is a success they can make improvements like what was done to BMO.

I'm a firm believer that you could build a well equipped 24000 seat stadium for under 100 Million. It would be that cheap aluminum BMO type stands but honestly who cares, Saputo seems to work great. You build a concrete building on one end that houses your dressing rooms ect, the ceiling of that building becomes a concourse floor. Hang some suites and a press box off the upper stands. the other side could be a hollow skeleton with 2 levels of seating, Do some party decks in the end zones, Jumbotron. Done

It would be like the Honda civic of stadiums but it would still look like a benz compared to what they have in Calgary or Montreal.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

It would be like the Honda civic of stadiums but it would still look like a benz compared to what they have in Calgary or Montreal.

When they fix the roof at Olympic Stadium, what are the odds that the Als would ever consider returning there? Even if were less than half full for games, it would still be such a comfortable place from a fan's perspective... plus by now I'm sure the nostalgia appeal of the place must exceed the shortcomings.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

When they fix the roof at Olympic Stadium, what are the odds that the Als would ever consider returning there? Even if were less than half full for games, it would still be such a comfortable place from a fan's perspective... plus by now I'm sure the nostalgia appeal of the place must exceed the shortcomings.

zero.

They can't even sell out a 22K stadium. nevermind 60K. They aren't going to play a place with 40K empty seats.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

zero.

They can't even sell out a 22K stadium. nevermind 60K. They aren't going to play a place with 40K empty seats.

The only real argument for staying in a small stadium instead of a nicer, bigger one is because you're selling out and creating scarcity. That isn't happening anymore.

If you have empty seats either way, Olympic Stadium becomes more appealing. McGill has that certain urban charm, but let's face facts... it's a dumpier stadium than Olympic.

[JHikka]

Alouettes have a lease at Molson until 2029.

https://www.mcgill.ca/channels/news/...stadium-109836

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Alouettes have a lease at Molson until 2029.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

FWIW, Olympic Park is a corporate partner of the team. Contrast that with the somewhat difficult at times relationship they've had with McGill. I'm not saying I'd necessarily bet on it happening, but I wouldn't say that moving back to the Big O is totally out of the question either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Thanks, I didn't know that.

FWIW, Olympic Park is a corporate partner of the team. Contrast that with the somewhat difficult at times relationship they've had with McGill. I'm not saying I'd necessarily bet on it happening, but I wouldn't say that moving back to the Big O is totally out of the question either.

The Alouettes club offices and training facilities are all at the Big O I am pretty sure.

[esquire]

^ They basically do everything but play their games there.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by esquire

The only real argument for staying in a small stadium instead of a nicer, bigger one is because you're selling out and creating scarcity. That isn't happening anymore.

If you have empty seats either way, Olympic Stadium becomes more appealing. McGill has that certain urban charm, but let's face facts... it's a dumpier stadium than Olympic.

I would imagine that there's little potential for a walk-up crowd at Olympic Stadium compared to McGill. Fans at the games are probably (I'm guessing) more casual than in Winnipeg or Regina and not committed enough to make the effort to get to Olympic Stadium.

[Franco401]

I don't know the numbers but FWIW my cousin at McGill has gone to a couple Als games based on location alone.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

The only real argument for staying in a small stadium instead of a nicer, bigger one is because you're selling out and creating scarcity. That isn't happening anymore.

If you have empty seats either way, Olympic Stadium becomes more appealing. McGill has that certain urban charm, but let's face facts... it's a dumpier stadium than Olympic.

3000 empty seats isn't the same as 40,000 empty seats. Atmosphere is night and day. They aren't moving to olympic stadium man. Teams have been rightsizing for over a decade, not upsizing when they can't even sell out their current modest venue.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

3000 empty seats isn't the same as 40,000 empty seats. Atmosphere is night and day. They aren't moving to olympic stadium man. Teams have been rightsizing for over a decade, not upsizing when they can't even sell out their current modest venue.

There's more to it than just size. Olympic Park is clearly a suitor, while McGill has been a somewhat less than enthusiastic landlord (even though they have received a massively upgraded stadium out of the deal - the place was falling apart and probably not far from the wrecking ball stage when the Als moved in back in 1998).

I'm not saying I'm betting on it happening, just that it's a possibility. Which it most definitely is.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's simply not economical for the team or the building operator to move to a 60,000 seat stadium if you can barely sell 20,000 tickets.

[esquire]

^ There's not much else going on at Olympic Stadium... they definitely have the dates available.

[king10]

Sure. Its a .00000000001% possibility.

They’ve had the dates available since 2004 when the expos left. That doesnt make it any more enticing.

Theres also a possbility the argos move back to Rogers Centre.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

Sure. Its a .00000000001% possibility.

They’ve had the dates available since 2004 when the expos left. That doesnt make it any more enticing.

Theres also a possbility the argos move back to Rogers Centre.

Not at all likely given that Rogers effectively booted them out.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not at all likely given that Rogers effectively booted them out.

Yup not likely. But a .000000001% possibility just like the Als back to olympic stadium.

Also since rogers booted them out theyve become part owner of the argos.