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  #141  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 2:04 AM
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Maybe they're just trying to work quietly.
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  #142  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 2:17 AM
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Maybe they lost a contact.
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  #143  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 2:21 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
Maybe they're just trying to work quietly.
With so many current downtown residents complaining about the construction noise taking place for future Downtown residents it makes you wonder if it will come to that.
There should be a rule/waiver that new downtown residents agree to saying they can't complain about music emanating from night clubs or from construction sites. Downtown is not Hutto!
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  #144  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 2:31 AM
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Maybe they lost a contact.
Maybe you guys are wrong... Also, I've never heard of anyone living downtown complaining about noise. It's what you get for the location.
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  #145  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 2:42 AM
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Maybe you guys are wrong... Also, I've never heard of anyone living downtown complaining about noise. It's what you get for the location.
There have been numerous complaints about music and overnight cement pours. Both have been making a lot of local news. That is why the city has been trying to address those issues for about two years now.
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  #146  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 4:39 AM
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I was making a corny joke about it being a library and so needing to be quiet.
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  #147  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 4:43 AM
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I was making a corny joke about it being a library and so needing to be quiet.
That's actually pretty funny
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  #148  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2015, 11:44 AM
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There have been numerous complaints about music and overnight cement pours. Both have been making a lot of local news. That is why the city has been trying to address those issues for about two years now.
Lol. If you live downtown, get used to it.
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  #149  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 5:16 PM
_Matt _Matt is offline
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Originally Posted by IluvATX View Post
Lol. If you live downtown, get used to it.
Actually, you're wrong on this. It's a complicated issue that goes back to the way sound is measured. People make comments like your's that have the effect of vilifying people that live downtown with a reasonable expectation of peace and quite in what should be Austin's most vibrant urban neighborhood.

Downtown Austin's noise ordinances around entertainment and construction are antiquated and need to be moderinized. They are vastly more lenient than more cosmopolitan cities that successfully foster urban residence. Despite the economic incentives for maintaining our downtown entertainment scene, the city's Music and Entertainment division consistently works with venues to improve noise insulation through a low-interest loan program because our ordinances are inept. Ok, so why not correct them? It's a complex issue that would be political suicide when critics over simplify the argument (e.g. SkyScraper page commenters)

The root of the issue is that the noise ordinance was written with the dbA measurement type instead of the dbC measurement type. Because of the logarithmic nature of sound waves, this loophole allows for low bass sounds to be virtually unregulated. When you see people complaining about noise downtown, many times you will hear of objects being vibrated off of tables and counters specifically because of this loophole.

The Austin Music office knows this, but because of those politics preventing the correction of the the noise ordinance, they have instead developed relationships with the venues and have a sort of gentlemen's agreement that keep the worst offenders under check. The city has done this to maintain balance with downtown residents and neighborhood associations, despite the ineffective noise ordinances.

This means that noise violations can't be immediately ticketed by enforcement officials and must "boil over" to high level of complaints before they get attention. This obviously creates frustration for residents (which you hear in the media) and is not the right way to run a noise program. The Austin Music office reads all of the downtown noise complaints, but they are, of course, resource limited.

Even if the dbA and dbC situation was fixed, another reason the noise ordinance is exacerbating the problem is location where noise levels are measured. In our antiquated ordinance, the noise levels are measured at the edge of the property, typically by an enforcement officer at street level. In downtown Austin, this is pointless because roof music is often aimed up or out without directly exposing the street level properly line to the full extent of the sound.

Measuring at the source is aptly called source-based monitoring--but the noise at the source doesn't really matter. More modern noise ordinances uses receiver-based monitoring which measures sound level at the receiver using computer modeling and real-time proxy measurements to verify levels are in check.

Again, the city knows about this and it was used to establish sound operating limits for Stubbs BBQ outdoor stage. While this may not make sense for the dense districts like 6th Street, it would make a lot of sense for areas that are not designated entertainment districts, where residences commingle with venues.

Finally, music doesn't have to be loud to be live and enjoyable. Why is it considered necessary for the music scene to amplify music so much? People that want music turned down aren't trying to get rid of music, they're trying to minimize the egregiously loud music late at night (after all, they did want to live downtown).

Saxon Pub is one of the best sounding venues in Austin and I bet they've never had complaints because they have reasonable sound levels and focus on sound quality at reasonable levels. "Old school" Austin didn't have ultra loud shows roof top dance clubs--they had smaller intimate shows for the most part. The reason for the increase in noise complaints in the past few years is just as much due to louder shows as it is due to increased downtown residence. Also, and I am a huge EDM fan, but it is also frequently over-amplified in live settings.

I hope that people who make ignorant statements like "downtown residents should sign agreements not to complain" will take some time and properly educate themselves on the actual problem before jumping to conclusions, because frankly, you're just making a complicated problem even worse.

Sources: http://austinnoise.org/, Austin Noise Ordinance, meeting/interview with Austin Music staff
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  #150  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by _Matt View Post
Actually, you're wrong on this. It's a complicated issue that goes back to the way sound is measured. People make comments like your's that have the effect of vilifying people that live downtown with a reasonable expectation of peace and quite in what should be Austin's most vibrant urban neighborhood.

Downtown Austin's noise ordinances around entertainment and construction are antiquated and need to be moderinized. They are vastly more lenient than more cosmopolitan cities that successfully foster urban residence. Despite the economic incentives for maintaining our downtown entertainment scene, the city's Music and Entertainment division consistently works with venues to improve noise insulation through a low-interest loan program because our ordinances are inept. Ok, so why not correct them? It's a complex issue that would be political suicide when critics over simplify the argument (e.g. SkyScraper page commenters)

The root of the issue is that the noise ordinance was written with the dbA measurement type instead of the dbC measurement type. Because of the logarithmic nature of sound waves, this loophole allows for low bass sounds to be virtually unregulated. When you see people complaining about noise downtown, many times you will hear of objects being vibrated off of tables and counters specifically because of this loophole.

The Austin Music office knows this, but because of those politics preventing the correction of the the noise ordinance, they have instead developed relationships with the venues and have a sort of gentlemen's agreement that keep the worst offenders under check. The city has done this to maintain balance with downtown residents and neighborhood associations, despite the ineffective noise ordinances.

This means that noise violations can't be immediately ticketed by enforcement officials and must "boil over" to high level of complaints before they get attention. This obviously creates frustration for residents (which you hear in the media) and is not the right way to run a noise program. The Austin Music office reads all of the downtown noise complaints, but they are, of course, resource limited.

Even if the dbA and dbC situation was fixed, another reason the noise ordinance is exacerbating the problem is location where noise levels are measured. In our antiquated ordinance, the noise levels are measured at the edge of the property, typically by an enforcement officer at street level. In downtown Austin, this is pointless because roof music is often aimed up or out without directly exposing the street level properly line to the full extent of the sound.

Measuring at the source is aptly called source-based monitoring--but the noise at the source doesn't really matter. More modern noise ordinances uses receiver-based monitoring which measures sound level at the receiver using computer modeling and real-time proxy measurements to verify levels are in check.

Again, the city knows about this and it was used to establish sound operating limits for Stubbs BBQ outdoor stage. While this may not make sense for the dense districts like 6th Street, it would make a lot of sense for areas that are not designated entertainment districts, where residences commingle with venues.

Finally, music doesn't have to be loud to be live and enjoyable. Why is it considered necessary for the music scene to amplify music so much? People that want music turned down aren't trying to get rid of music, they're trying to minimize the egregiously loud music late at night (after all, they did want to live downtown).

Saxon Pub is one of the best sounding venues in Austin and I bet they've never had complaints because they have reasonable sound levels and focus on sound quality at reasonable levels. "Old school" Austin didn't have ultra loud shows roof top dance clubs--they had smaller intimate shows for the most part. The reason for the increase in noise complaints in the past few years is just as much due to louder shows as it is due to increased downtown residence. Also, and I am a huge EDM fan, but it is also frequently over-amplified in live settings.

I hope that people who make ignorant statements like "downtown residents should sign agreements not to complain" will take some time and properly educate themselves on the actual problem before jumping to conclusions, because frankly, you're just making a complicated problem even worse.

Sources: http://austinnoise.org/, Austin Noise Ordinance, meeting/interview with Austin Music staff
Actually, since I have lived in downtowns before and currently live in a loud area, I'm not villifying anything. I'm saying if you are so sensitive to noise, then move to the country. Your history of sound is real interesting, but I'm talking about the real world where everything in a city makes noise, not just music. If you want peace and quiet, don't live in any downtown, it's not going to happen.
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  #151  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Matt View Post
Actually, you're wrong on this. It's a complicated issue that goes back to the way sound is measured. People make comments like your's that have the effect of vilifying people that live downtown with a reasonable expectation of peace and quite in what should be Austin's most vibrant urban neighborhood.

Downtown Austin's noise ordinances around entertainment and construction are antiquated and need to be moderinized. They are vastly more lenient than more cosmopolitan cities that successfully foster urban residence. Despite the economic incentives for maintaining our downtown entertainment scene, the city's Music and Entertainment division consistently works with venues to improve noise insulation through a low-interest loan program because our ordinances are inept. Ok, so why not correct them? It's a complex issue that would be political suicide when critics over simplify the argument (e.g. SkyScraper page commenters)

The root of the issue is that the noise ordinance was written with the dbA measurement type instead of the dbC measurement type. Because of the logarithmic nature of sound waves, this loophole allows for low bass sounds to be virtually unregulated. When you see people complaining about noise downtown, many times you will hear of objects being vibrated off of tables and counters specifically because of this loophole.

The Austin Music office knows this, but because of those politics preventing the correction of the the noise ordinance, they have instead developed relationships with the venues and have a sort of gentlemen's agreement that keep the worst offenders under check. The city has done this to maintain balance with downtown residents and neighborhood associations, despite the ineffective noise ordinances.

This means that noise violations can't be immediately ticketed by enforcement officials and must "boil over" to high level of complaints before they get attention. This obviously creates frustration for residents (which you hear in the media) and is not the right way to run a noise program. The Austin Music office reads all of the downtown noise complaints, but they are, of course, resource limited.

Even if the dbA and dbC situation was fixed, another reason the noise ordinance is exacerbating the problem is location where noise levels are measured. In our antiquated ordinance, the noise levels are measured at the edge of the property, typically by an enforcement officer at street level. In downtown Austin, this is pointless because roof music is often aimed up or out without directly exposing the street level properly line to the full extent of the sound.

Measuring at the source is aptly called source-based monitoring--but the noise at the source doesn't really matter. More modern noise ordinances uses receiver-based monitoring which measures sound level at the receiver using computer modeling and real-time proxy measurements to verify levels are in check.

Again, the city knows about this and it was used to establish sound operating limits for Stubbs BBQ outdoor stage. While this may not make sense for the dense districts like 6th Street, it would make a lot of sense for areas that are not designated entertainment districts, where residences commingle with venues.

Finally, music doesn't have to be loud to be live and enjoyable. Why is it considered necessary for the music scene to amplify music so much? People that want music turned down aren't trying to get rid of music, they're trying to minimize the egregiously loud music late at night (after all, they did want to live downtown).

Saxon Pub is one of the best sounding venues in Austin and I bet they've never had complaints because they have reasonable sound levels and focus on sound quality at reasonable levels. "Old school" Austin didn't have ultra loud shows roof top dance clubs--they had smaller intimate shows for the most part. The reason for the increase in noise complaints in the past few years is just as much due to louder shows as it is due to increased downtown residence. Also, and I am a huge EDM fan, but it is also frequently over-amplified in live settings.

I hope that people who make ignorant statements like "downtown residents should sign agreements not to complain" will take some time and properly educate themselves on the actual problem before jumping to conclusions, because frankly, you're just making a complicated problem even worse.

Sources: http://austinnoise.org/, Austin Noise Ordinance, meeting/interview with Austin Music staff
Since almost all current downtown residents moved in _after_ the music clubs were established, they moved there knowing there was going to be noise (measured in the way you're complaining about).

That's why they get no sympathy. Because they don't have "a reasonable expectation of peace and quiet". They moved next to the existing noise.
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  #152  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 6:22 PM
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I live out in the country for that and other reasons. This morning I got to sleep in and was awoken by a noisy flock of grakles and someone mowing their yard. Yesterday I was creating a racket while building a new chicken coop while my dogs were barking at a squirrel in a tree. When I fly, I almost always get stuck with a crying baby nearby. When I lived by Bergstrom AFB, the F4's were deafening and the nighttime sortes kept me up all night. When I spent weekends in NYC, it was sirens, music, car horns and people yelling from building to building. Noise pollution is everywhere. I used to get really pissed about it, even calling the cops a few times. Now I just choose to accept it. Ordinances are good to temper extreme loudness, but it some cases, people will complain if they can even just barely hear it, because they don't want to hear anything at all. I sometimes wish I could escape to a deserted island, but those damn waves crashing on shore would drive me nuts!
And I agree with novacek, I got a kick out of people who moved into my neighborhood near BAFB and then bitch complained about the noise. Realtors will tell you to spend time where you intend to move at all hours of the day and night, different days of the week to determine things like potential noise issues.
btw, I know a few cops and they said noise complaint calls are a pain in the ass, especially when neither party is willing to compromise and they have to go back repeatedly.

Last edited by the Genral; Apr 1, 2015 at 6:36 PM.
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  #153  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 7:00 PM
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Yeah, it's the extreme noise that I'm talking about. You don't move on Rainy Street expecting to go to sleep at 9pm on Friday night. But you also don't expect it to vibrate objects off the table.
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  #154  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 8:30 PM
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Picture of the atrium looking towards Shoal Creek.

https://twitter.com/LakeFlato/status/582975600639475714
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  #155  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2015, 11:19 PM
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^Nice. That's going to be an awesome space. I really like the idea of inviting the outdoors in. There is just something really satisfying about reading a peaceful place surrounded by greenery.
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  #156  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2015, 1:36 AM
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I'm imagining looking out that atrium during a downpour. I'm so excited for this library branch.
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  #157  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2015, 1:46 AM
IluvATX IluvATX is offline
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Very cool atrium.
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  #158  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2015, 1:56 AM
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Looking at all the angles and the architectural elements, I can see why this is taking so long to build...OR is it that there is really only one guy working, the one and only, in the picture.
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  #159  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2015, 2:24 AM
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Looking at all the angles and the architectural elements, I can see why this is taking so long to build...OR is it that there is really only one guy working, the one and only, in the picture.
They have three guys working it. One in each crane and that guy on the ground doing all sorts of stuff.
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  #160  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2015, 2:57 AM
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I'm imagining looking out that atrium during a downpour. I'm so excited for this library branch.
That's was my first thought too. It's going to be a great place to ride out a thunderstorm. I'm also really glad that we are going to have a public space in such a great location with great views of Town Lake, Shoal Creek, and downtown.
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