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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 3:55 PM
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Is Bonie-Doon actually French?

I was always curious if this neighbourhood actually still had an active french speaking population, or even could hear a hi-bonjour in local stores like you would in the bilingual area's of Québec. I know that the west has historically been super hostile to francophones, so it surprised me when I learned of this neighbourhood.

Does anyone know where I could get the language statistics for the specific neighbourhood?
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 6:49 PM
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I went to an event there and the francophone population in that area is still alive. I see arret signs on major intersections and people will still say bon journee. It is a thriving francophone community.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 8:44 PM
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its a misconception that "the west is super hostile" towards francophones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Albertans http://yagotta.ca/alberta-destinatio...edmonton-area/
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGenuineArticle View Post
I know that the west has historically been super hostile to francophones, so it surprised me when I learned of this neighbourhood.
Actually there are a large number of sizable Franco-Albertan communities in northern Alberta: mainly in the Peace Country south of Peace River, within the Metro Edmonton area (St. Albert and Beaumont), and the Bonnyville area. In these communities you find bilingual schools and many families who speak French at home.

The Boonie Doon area's Franco-Albertan community is centered around La Cité Francophone. I would love to see an expansion of our French Quarter.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 10:37 PM
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As for the hostility, I think that is channeled more towards the Quebec government, their language police, the separatists and the federal politicians who placate them, and not towards the French Canadien people per se.
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Old Posted Jun 3, 2017, 10:41 PM
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its a misconception that "the west is super hostile" towards francophones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Albertans http://yagotta.ca/alberta-destinatio...edmonton-area/


I said historically, Manitobans burned down a french community center in the 1980s in a riot over Manitoba becoming bilingual. I would say thats pretty hostile.

I've also worked for a western based company, they all seemed to dislike Québec/French people. (i'm anglo for the record).



I don't really see why people hate the Québec government, its the same as hating Canada. I also have so much more rights here as an English speaker than french people do anywhere else. Given the history (that we aren't taught) I can see why some would want to separate.
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Old Posted Jun 4, 2017, 4:15 AM
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Community and city links:

http://www.frenchquarteredmonton.ca/
http://www.edmontonmapsheritage.ca/culture/french/
http://yagotta.ca/alberta-destinatio...edmonton-area/


University of Alberta French campus:
https://www.ualberta.ca/campus-saint-jean

The area north of 99th Avenue on 110 Street in central Edmonton with churches, schools and businesses also French:
http://caedm.ca/ParishesMassTimes/StJoachimFrench
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGenuineArticle View Post
I said historically, Manitobans burned down a french community center in the 1980s in a riot over Manitoba becoming bilingual. I would say thats pretty hostile.

I've also worked for a western based company, they all seemed to dislike Québec/French people. (i'm anglo for the record).



I don't really see why people hate the Québec government, its the same as hating Canada. I also have so much more rights here as an English speaker than french people do anywhere else. Given the history (that we aren't taught) I can see why some would want to separate.
I think a lot of the negativity is also fueled by stories that come out of Quebec about how anglophones are treated and how Alberta is perceived. My favorite was a story that a poll in Quebec showed that over 50% of the population thought Quebec was supporting Alberta through transfer payments.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 2:45 PM
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I think a lot of the negativity is also fueled by stories that come out of Quebec about how anglophones are treated and how Alberta is perceived. My favorite was a story that a poll in Quebec showed that over 50% of the population thought Quebec was supporting Alberta through transfer payments.
All of those plus the separatism issue raised by someone else are popular justifications for the antagonism, but anti-French sentiment and policies in Western Canada go way back before anyone had ever heard of Quebec separatism, the PQ, Bill 101, etc.

There were lots of laws out West around the turn of the 20th century and in the first half of the 20th century that banned French in schools, courts and legislatures, and provinces forcibly switched over many existing francophone institutions to English in those years.

The KKK existed on the Prairies and harassed French Canadian Catholics, stirred up shit against them, and even burned down some of their institutions like colleges, etc.

All of this long before the rise of Quebec nationalism/separatism in the 1960s.

Things are much calmer and cool today.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 3:35 PM
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All of those plus the separatism issue raised by someone else are popular justifications for the antagonism, but anti-French sentiment and policies in Western Canada go way back before anyone had ever heard of Quebec separatism, the PQ, Bill 101, etc.

There were lots of laws out West around the turn of the 20th century and in the first half of the 20th century that banned French in schools, courts and legislatures, and provinces forcibly switched over many existing francophone institutions to English in those years.

The KKK existed on the Prairies and harassed French Canadian Catholics, stirred up shit against them, and even burned down some of their institutions like colleges, etc.

All of this long before the rise of Quebec nationalism/separatism in the 1960s.

Things are much calmer and cool today.
Oddly enough my father used to tell stories about the Ukrainian and Polish farm immigrants having to defend themselves against the predominantly French Catholics in the St. Paul / Bonnyville region, back in the day.

On the flipside, on the topic of french speaking communities, it's fairly common to hear people speaking french to each other at events, or even shopping, in St. Albert. I've never seen any of them being harassed for it, either.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 4:11 PM
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The language politics of that era is pretty fascinating stuff,. As a result of her early days in Canada, my great grandmother, to until she died never spoke Ukranian, despite it being her first language.

One thing I would mention about Bonnie Doon and franco-albertans in general is that they don't necesarily have any significant affinity for, or identification with Quebec. It's not that they hate Quebec, but they don't see it as a sort of homeland by virtue of speaking french.

As for hostility, the majority of Albertans I would think are pretty indifferent to Quebec and the concept of "French". This is especially true in Edmonton and North where french has always been around to some degree (but no longer in threatening volumes, of course). I think the animosity is a bit more pronounced in the southern parts of the province which is also a pretty different political world in general. Even then, most of AB frustration these days stems out of historic political issues with central Canada overall as opposed to cultural conflict. In this sense Quebec is much easier to cast in the role of "the other" than Ontario by enterprising politicitians.

Somewhat ironic, because I think in the scheme of Canada, Quebec and Alberta are actually much more similar than either would care to admit. Perhaps that's the problem...
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 4:13 PM
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Oddly enough my father used to tell stories about the Ukrainian and Polish farm immigrants having to defend themselves against the predominantly French Catholics in the St. Paul / Bonnyville region, back in the day.

.
I was totally expecting this type of brush-off. The historic treatment of francophones in their provinces is not a topic that most people in Western Canada are uncomfortable with being reminded of.

Your assertion though is entirely plausible and even likely. The colonization-era Prairies were a tough place to survive, and all of the groups living there occasionally bumped into and stepped on each other in order to survive.

What I am talking about though is the authority of government. It was aggressively assimilationist towards francophones, AND towards other groups including Ukrainians and Poles.

The main difference of course was that francophones by and large were already Canadians with legal rights in the country they called home, and those rights were violated or taken away.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 4:31 PM
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I was totally expecting this type of brush-off.

The main difference of course was that francophones by and large were already Canadians with legal rights in the country they called home, and those rights were violated or taken away.
Care to elaborate? My interpretation is that you're starting to head towards hostility for some reason. My statement wasn't meant as any sort of brushoff. Yours however seems to be implying that my ancestors are less worthy of lawful treatment.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 4:54 PM
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French culture is celebrated in Edmonton - and the influx of chefs and bakers from France has this city abuzz with excitement. There are fewer Quebecois standing out in the food scene ... at least as far as I am aware. Food is just one of the cultural attributes visible in the City. The Performing Arts has an amazing repertoire of dance, theatre, music with our Cité Ballet in the French Quarter being the only Edmonton bases ballet company.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Care to elaborate? My interpretation is that you're starting to head towards hostility for some reason. My statement wasn't meant as any sort of brushoff. Yours however seems to be implying that my ancestors are less worthy of lawful treatment.
My point was that francophones who moved to the west had a certain number of legal rights to institutions in their language (which were either not respected or taken away).

Immigrant groups did not and do not generally have these rights.
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 5:26 PM
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My point was that francophones who moved to the west had a certain number of legal rights to institutions in their language (which were either not respected or taken away).

Immigrant groups did not and do not generally have these rights.
Can we apply common sense to this going forward and use a mirrored approach? What percentage of a population or number of people would need to speak the minority official language in Alberta or Quebec before it merits, a separate school system, court system, major overhaul of municipal government beyond just information translated into the less popular language and availability of a translator. I ask this because tax dollars are at stake.

I had no problems with the building of a new French (not to be confused with French immersion) junior high/ high school in St. Albert last year, because I'm assuming the numbers support it, despite only 2% of St. Albert identifying themselves as francophone in the 2016 census.

Looking east, Sept Iles has approximately a 3% anglophone population. What would be the minimum level of acceptable english service for those citizens.

An interesting 'fairly' recent article about government legal obligations relevant to both Quebec and Alberta

Last edited by Landlocked; Jun 5, 2017 at 5:34 PM. Reason: addendum
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 6:23 PM
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Can we apply common sense to this going forward and use a mirrored approach? What percentage of a population or number of people would need to speak the minority official language in Alberta or Quebec before it merits, a separate school system, court system, major overhaul of municipal government beyond just information translated into the less popular language and availability of a translator. I ask this because tax dollars are at stake.

I had no problems with the building of a new French (not to be confused with French immersion) junior high/ high school in St. Albert last year, because I'm assuming the numbers support it, despite only 2% of St. Albert identifying themselves as francophone in the 2016 census.

Looking east, Sept Iles has approximately a 3% anglophone population. What would be the minimum level of acceptable english service for those citizens.

An interesting 'fairly' recent article about government legal obligations relevant to both Quebec and Alberta
That's a whole other debate!
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Old Posted Jun 5, 2017, 7:24 PM
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That's a whole other debate!
So, to get back on topic then. I think near the Faculty St. Jean, you may find more open french speaking than most areas of the city.

With a little 'googling' I've found the city's language by neighbourhood on their open data website.

Census-Dwelling-Unit-By-Language-Neighbourhood

Bonnie Doon and Oliver have the largest number of french speaking households. But it looks like the Bonnie Doon numbers contain easily the highest percentage of neighbourhood households where the french language is spoken.
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 5:06 AM
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So, to get back on topic then. I think near the Faculty St. Jean, you may find more open french speaking than most areas of the city.

With a little 'googling' I've found the city's language by neighbourhood on their open data website.

Census-Dwelling-Unit-By-Language-Neighbourhood

Bonnie Doon and Oliver have the largest number of french speaking households. But it looks like the Bonnie Doon numbers contain easily the highest percentage of neighbourhood households where the french language is spoken.
Here is a map produced by Radio-Canada using the same data :

https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...mplt=2&hml=KML
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Old Posted Jun 6, 2017, 1:27 PM
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All of those plus the separatism issue raised by someone else are popular justifications for the antagonism, but anti-French sentiment and policies in Western Canada go way back before anyone had ever heard of Quebec separatism, the PQ, Bill 101, etc.

There were lots of laws out West around the turn of the 20th century and in the first half of the 20th century that banned French in schools, courts and legislatures, and provinces forcibly switched over many existing francophone institutions to English in those years.

The KKK existed on the Prairies and harassed French Canadian Catholics, stirred up shit against them, and even burned down some of their institutions like colleges, etc.

All of this long before the rise of Quebec nationalism/separatism in the 1960s.

Things are much calmer and cool today.
What you describe is a common ethnic-nationalist tribalism seen across rapidly-expanding settler-colonial societies, from Chicago to Melbourne, and yes it certainly included the Canadian Prairies. Some of the Anglo-French tension was about Protestant-Catholic religious animosity that seems hard to relate to today, but which was often the major dividing line in communities across North America right up until the 1960s. A hangover from that division is the continuation of a separate publicly-funded Catholic school system, which many would argue is highly wasteful and in some ways prejudicial to the interests of those in the mainstream (previously Protestant) public system. I'm not sure those animosities map onto an anti-French feeling anymore, though.

Today I do think that among some Albertans (also people in BC) there is a sort of knee-jerk animosity of Quebec, often because of transfer payments and the role of Quebec ridings in pivoting federal elections away from often-favored Conservative leaders. There is still some bitterness about the senior Trudeau's National Energy Program in Alberta, and P.E. Trudeau himself is/was associated with Quebec and Quebec interests writ large. More recently there is animosity towards the mayor of Montreal's stance against pipe lines.

All of this said, I would be (unhappily) surprised if Quebecers felt any discrimination in Edmonton. More often they would be treated as a welcome novelty in a rapidly diversifying city. In the Cite Francophone in Bonnie Doon shopkeepers and waiters/waitresses approach customers in French first, but are perfectly bilingual. Years ago I remember refereeing a Bonnie Doon soccer team where all the parents were speaking (and yelling to their kids) in French. I often hear Quebecois French in downtown Edmonton. Some of these French speakers are transient oil and construction workers, but there is also a more deeply-rooted community several generations old.
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