Investors Group Field | Winnipeg

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot

Hey guys, I was looking up the specs of your stadium, and I couldn't find this: Is the playing surface at or below street grade? Thank you in advance.

It's about 10 - 15 feet below grade by my estimate. IGF was supposed to be 25 feet below grade but the water table prevented that from happening.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Short-sighted panic move by the league's rules committee in response to the drastic decline in offense (both points and yards gained per game) last season. No contact with the receiver 5 yards from scrimmage means the officials could very well throw a flag after every play...and sometimes it seems that they do! In hopes of making the CFL more watchable with artificial offense they have further rendered the game unwatchable with all the penalties. There seems to be little flow to these drives down the field as officials appear to spend an interminable amount of time sorting out the flags after each play.

I don't doubt for one moment, as the season progresses, the officials will be calling contact on the receiver less and less each game with the rules committee attributing this decline in pass interference penalties to the players having "figured it out." In reality, the league office will probably send a memo to the officials at some point in the season telling them to cool it with all the flags.

There's only been a handful of calls related to the new rules. The infraction called most in the Bombers first two games was offside, followed by objectionable conduct and unnecessary roughness.

[Biff]

I have to say that I love the new convert rule. It really makes what was a waste of a play and turns it into something that could decide games. The Bombers missed two converts and Hamilton converted on 2, two pointers. It really made it much more interesting.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Biff

I have to say that I love the new convert rule. It really makes what was a waste of a play and turns it into something that could decide games. The Bombers missed two converts and Hamilton converted on 2, two pointers. It really made it much more interesting.

Agreed, it's gonna be awesome when it starts to get windier and colder too.

[Dougler306]

Yeah the new interference penalty is stupid, simple as that. Within the first 2 weeks so many drives have been extended by the flag and it is even more concerning when commentators are expressing the fact, that the teams are driving the ball down field when atleast 50% of that drive was due to the inference call 5yrds after the line of scrimmage and the refs seem all to happy to call that.

The Refs now have all too much power to change a game score which it should not be. When ref starts dictating on scoring drives by calling penalty's every 2nd play. Really covers up the CFL's poor quarterbacks and passing offenses. Artificially creating touchdowns/drives by penalty...

[SkydivePilot]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

It's about 10 - 15 feet below grade by my estimate. IGF was supposed to be 25 feet below grade but the water table prevented that from happening.

Thank you guys for your responses. It does appear to be a very tall facility as well.

[cllew]

I see in todays Free Press that IGF was never designed to house concerts according to the architect Ray Wan.

"Field-level seating became an issue when the plaintiff chose to explore the use of Investors Group Field for outdoor concerts, which was not contemplated in the original design," reads the statement of the defence.

The architect claims he designed the stadium under an agreement reached with original stadium builder Creswin Properties and later assigned to the shell company.

I guess that Mr. Asper didn't think the concerts would be a way for the stadium to make money if he was the owner of the team.

[esquire]

^ It does appear that the game plan for the stadium was to sell the governments on a stripped down base model and once all the commitments were made, to add all kinds of upgrades.

Basically the standard car salesman tactic that gets your $17,000 Honda Civic up to $29,000 once all is said and done ("Oh, you wanted air conditioning with that? Let's look at the Sport model!")

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It does appear that the game plan for the stadium was to sell the governments on a stripped down base model and once all the commitments were made, to add all kinds of upgrades.

Basically the standard car salesman tactic that gets your $17,000 Honda Civic up to $29,000 once all is said and done ("Oh, you wanted air conditioning with that? Let's look at the Sport model!")

And this was entirely predictable. All politics. Anyone with a pinch of critical thought knew that a football stadium couldn't be built for $135 million or whatever it was when Asper was still involved. I'm not sure how Asper is avoiding the legal minefield in all this, even got paid out generously for his contribution.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by cllew

I see in todays Free Press that IGF was never designed to house concerts according to the architect Ray Wan.

"Field-level seating became an issue when the plaintiff chose to explore the use of Investors Group Field for outdoor concerts, which was not contemplated in the original design," reads the statement of the defence.

The architect claims he designed the stadium under an agreement reached with original stadium builder Creswin Properties and later assigned to the shell company.

I guess that Mr. Asper didn't think the concerts would be a way for the stadium to make money if he was the owner of the team.

It was pretty smart of Ray Wan to assume a stadium would never be used for concerts, yeah Ray it's not like concerts are held in arena's or stadiums or even outdoor stages right!

Why anything connected with Asper was left in play when he came up short every which but loose speaks more of the speNDP incompetence in running anything right....

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

It was pretty smart of Ray Wan to assume a stadium would never be used for concerts, yeah Ray it's not like concerts are held in arena's or stadiums or even outdoor stages right!

Why anything connected with Asper was left in play when he came up short every which but loose speaks more of the speNDP incompetence in running anything right....

Its utterly ludicrous that they would design the Stadium for two seasons when they knew there would be Grey Cups held there and the obvious desire to hold an NHL game there. And no concerts? Give me a break.

Even if thats true, Ray Wan is a moron for going along with it.

Im not on the anti-Asper bandwagon but I'd like him deposed to answer some of these questions. It seems ludicrous that any stakeholder would choose to have a stadium designed to limit its use.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Im not on the anti-Asper bandwagon but I'd like him deposed to answer some of these questions. It seems ludicrous that any stakeholder would choose to have a stadium designed to limit its use.

Not that ludicrous if you're trying to sell a $135 million (or whatever the actual number is) artificially-low pricetag.

As trueviking correctly predicted in this thread almost a decade ago, this project will be well north of $200 million when all is said and done. But what if Asper had come out on day one in 2007 and said the project budget was $250 million for an all-season multipurpose venue? It would have been shot down faster than you can say "structural deficit".

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by esquire

Not that ludicrous if you're trying to sell a $135 million (or whatever the actual number is) artificially-low pricetag.

As trueviking correctly predicted in this thread almost a decade ago, this project will be well north of $200 million when all is said and done. But what if Asper had come out on day one in 2007 and said the project budget was $250 million for an all-season multipurpose venue? It would have been shot down faster than you can say "structural deficit".

Maybe by some, not by all. A lot of the opinion Im hearing is more anger at either being lied to or the building not being world class from the beginning and the sense that if they came out said "this will cost $250M and yes thats a lot of money but this will be a facility all Manitobans can be proud of for 60+ years", that many people would have been okay with it.

Maybe thats giving the general public too much credit. lol

[esquire]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Maybe by some, not by all. A lot of the opinion Im hearing is more anger at either being lied to or the building not being world class from the beginning and the sense that if they came out said "this will cost $250M and yes thats a lot of money but this will be a facility all Manitobans can be proud of for 60+ years", that many people would have been okay with it.

Maybe thats giving the general public too much credit. lol

^ I think you nailed it. The reality is that with the upgrades that have pushed the costs up, we have gotten the stadium that we need.

[trueviking]

that isn't the point. We got a $190million stadium. The tens and tens and tens and tens of millions we have and will spend extra won't get us a $250m stadium (or whatever the cost ends up at). It will get us a $190million stadium that doesn't leak, can be used for concerts like all stadiums, that has insulated plumbing etc etc.

We are not getting upgrades for our money. When I think of the projects like the WSO restoring the Pantages and building a nice addition as their permanent home asking $8million or whatever it is, I lament the wasted money on the stadium. That money could do real good in the community. Segregated bike lanes on almost every street in downtown costs $7million.

I don't so easily shrug off that much money. Had it been done right in the first place the costs would have been a couple million tops. Now that it has to be reconstructed in the dead of winter we will pay exponentially more.

[esquire]

^ I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but clearly the project's proponents drew up a play that would get the ball into the endzone (to use a football metaphor). It wasn't pretty and you're right, it will probably end up costing more in the long run, but they did what they had to in order to get the job done.

[CoryB]

The other thing I wonder about how IGF went down is if Asper went in with a low-ball budget hoping to take control of the team over a dispute with management at the time. Once it became clear the cost was going to be well beyond his target he created a way to back out of the deal with minimal personal lose?

[The Unknown Poster]

I honestly believe David Asper had the right intentions. I think he loves the Bombers and desperately wanted to own the team and tried to build a stadium to accomplish that goal.

Im not saying he is blameless or did everything correctly. But I believe his intentions were good. And ultimately he drove the discussion to the point we ended up with a new stadium. I wonder what would have happened if Asper had never been around to begin with... dump cash into Canad Inns Stadium?

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

I honestly believe David Asper had the right intentions. I think he loves the Bombers and desperately wanted to own the team and tried to build a stadium to accomplish that goal.

Im not saying he is blameless or did everything correctly. But I believe his intentions were good. And ultimately he drove the discussion to the point we ended up with a new stadium. I wonder what would have happened if Asper had never been around to begin with... dump cash into Canad Inns Stadium?

I have to agree with you there. If it weren't for him we'd be watching the games with a nice view of Bed, Bath, and Beyond's loading dock, or worse: we'd be basking in the aroma of a slaughterhouse.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

I honestly believe David Asper had the right intentions. I think he loves the Bombers and desperately wanted to own the team and tried to build a stadium to accomplish that goal.

I do not dispute that David Asper had the right intentions when purposing to build a stadium. It was well documented that he had a public dispute with team management before this proposal started. I feel the proposal might have been a response to that confrontation in hopes of "winning" an argument and actually making the Bombers into a successful franchise. Asper's goal was clearly not to take control and relocate the team to Ottawa or somewhere else. I do think though Asper received some horrible business advice when he went into this new line of business. It seems like he both over estimated the demand his new retail shopping centre would have and underestimated the true cost of building a stadium. If someone you trust is giving you advice the stadium can be built for $100 million, worst case $135 million and you approve that then suddenly a new projection comes in and it is over $200 million it is not surprising he needed to walk away, especially when his repayment plan was based around a retail development that failed in the concept stage. The failure of retail in Canada is a whole separate topic that gets frequently discussed on the retail thread.