Study Reveals World’s Most Walkable Cities

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Where's Vancouver lacking in terms of walkability?

Those suburban highrise nodes are pretty awful at ground level, given the density. Vancouver is the classic "over-promise, under-deliver" city when it comes to urbanity.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Those suburban highrise nodes are pretty awful at ground level, given the density. Vancouver is the classic "over-promise, under-deliver" city when it comes to urbanity.

So what you're saying is: things like curb cuts and setbacks do adversely affect walkability?

[badrunner]

Given the suburban office park nature of those condo tower clusters, I'm not sure that deleting curb cuts would make one iota of difference to walkability. That's the problem with reducing the complexity of creating a cohesive urban environment down to a few "paint-by-numbers-urbanism" requirements.

[Yuri]

A bit off-topic, but as Philadelphia was mentioned, I noticed by dropping the Google Street View doll, that are vast areas of the city that looks like exactly the best sections of New York, Boston or London.

I guess the city has lots of potential as a posh urban living destination in the future.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by yuriandrade

A bit off-topic, but as Philadelphia was mentioned, I noticed by dropping the Google Street View doll, that are vast areas of the city that looks like exactly the best sections of New York, Boston or London.

I guess the city has lots of potential as a posh urban living destination in the future.

Philly is very underrated, and has arguably the second best urban fabric in the U.S. It's a gem.

I wouldn't say there are "vast areas" that look like NY, Boston or London (maybe Boston, somewhat), but I'm not sure what is meant by this because the best sections of these cities don't really look similar. But Philly certainly has very nice townhouse neighborhoods and a great apartment neighborhood around Rittenhouse Square.

Also, I don't think prospects for "posh urban living" are heavily correlated with quality of building stock. There are plenty of metros with crap urban housing and yet tons of in-town wealth and plenty of metros with gorgeous urban housing and yet little in-town wealth.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Philly is very underrated, and has arguably the second best urban fabric in the U.S. It's a gem.

I wouldn't say there are "vast areas" that look like NY, Boston or London (maybe Boston, somewhat), but I'm not sure what is meant by this because the best sections of these cities don't really look similar. But Philly certainly has very nice townhouse neighborhoods and a great apartment neighborhood around Rittenhouse Square.

Also, I don't think prospects for "posh urban living" are heavily correlated with quality of building stock. There are plenty of metros with crap urban housing and yet tons of in-town wealth and plenty of metros with gorgeous urban housing and yet little in-town wealth.

I was checking near the opposite square, the Washington. Basically red bricks and tree lined streets. Reminded me a bit of residential areas of Manhattan and generic Boston.

Never been in Philadelphia, but those naked streets with simpler townhouses the forumer complained above, were the picture I have from residential areas of Philadelphia. At least on movies and TV series they are featured the most. For wealthy and "cool" urbanites, they prefer New York (Sex and the City, Friends, or whatever it's on TV those days).

About your last paragraph, the Northeast Corridor is a bit different. It's 50 million people area, where let's say 90% of Americans who have a close relation with real urban environments live. I guess "beautiful" urban areas will be at a high premium there, specially if the 20-year trend of returning to urban living keeps going on.

[badrunner]

A few of the nicer parts of Philly can pass for NYC or DC, but most of it looks more like Baltimore. Its built form is totally forgettable, certainly not anybody's idea of posh urban living.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Its built form is totally forgettable

fully disagree.

within the context of america, philly's built-form is quite notable for the fact that it's so very, very different from the vast majority of this country.

if any built form is totally forgettable in our nation, it's the tens of thousands of square miles of generic, interchangeable post-war sprawl-burbia.

Originally Posted by badrunner

certainly not anybody's idea of posh urban living.

yeah, much if it is pretty humble, but that's okay. i sure as shit ain't interested in "posh urban living". give me stable, quality, middle class urbansim all day long.

i really like regular cities for regular people because i'm a regular guy.

[Crawford]

Philly's working class tended to live in modest SFH rowhouses, so there are a lot of very basic rowhouse neighborhoods. That isn't the case in NYC, where brownstone neighborhoods were for the wealthy, and the working class lived in tenements or (later on) large apartment blocks.

So it's probably true that the typical Philly rowhouse is simple/modest, but there's such a shitload of rowhouses for all income types that Philly is loaded with high-end rowhouses too.

[Crawford]

But the best part about Philly urbanity isn't the grandeur. It's the fine-grained walkability and comfortable mixed-use environment:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9500...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9478...7i16384!8i8192

[MonkeyRonin]

With a population at "full" capacity and the gaps filled in, and maybe with a bit more attention given to the public realm, Philly could arguably be America's greatest walking city.

(New York will always be denser and more urban, but it's not quite as fine grained. Streets are wider, blocks are larger and more regular, and just by virtue of being a bigger city it means average trip distances are longer - and therefore more likely to require transit)

[JManc]

Right after graduate school, I almost moved to the Fitler Square area in Philly which was more of a diamond in the rough area (at the time) but still an urban gem and a few blocks away from Rittenhouse Square. There are aspects of Philly than give the densest parts of Manhattan and Boston a run for its money. Even European cities.

[summersm343]

Hilarious this shit talking on Philly. Forgetable? Are you out of your mind? Compared to what?? Houston? Phoenix? Atlanta? Dallas? Get out of here. Philly is right up there with Boston, DC and San Francisco... and while it may not pack some of the grandeur of others, if you knew anything about the city's history, it would actually make a ton of sense to you why Philly is the way it is today.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

But the best part about Philly urbanity isn't the grandeur. It's the fine-grained walkability and comfortable mixed-use environment:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9500...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9478...7i16384!8i8192

yeah, philly for sure excels in the fine-grained game.

what slightly dings philly for me, personally, is that many of its residential side-streets are completely devoid of green.

many dyed-in-the-wool urbanists may not care about that (or might even prefer it), but this is just a bit too hard and and austere for my sensibilities:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9257...7i16384!8i8192

i mean, those kinds of streets are absolutely fascinating to experience as a visitor because they're so very different from my world, but i'm not sure I would want to raise my family there.

but it obviously works just fine for many others, so...... yeah....

[niwell]

Philly tops the list (by a large margin) of American cities I want to visit but haven't been able to yet. It was on the list for this year, but uhhhh...

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, much if it is pretty humble, but that's okay. i sure as shit ain't interested in "posh urban living". give me stable, quality, middle class urbansim all day long.

i really like regular cities for regular people because i'm a regular guy.

As I mentioned the "posh urban living", just to clarify, I live in a very vibrant, diverse, and a bit rough district in Central São Paulo, just a couple blocks away from the wealthy, a bit sterile, Jewish district and I wouldn't move there for nothing. Leave my tens of bars and the alternative scene for cafes where old ladies steal sugar and are rude with waitresses?

What I meant was Philadelphia lacks (or at least we have this perception) of wealthy urban districts like those in New York or Boston.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by badrunner

A few of the nicer parts of Philly can pass for NYC or DC, but most of it looks more like Baltimore. Its built form is totally forgettable, certainly not anybody's idea of posh urban living.

By the way it looks, San Francisco house stock is rather modest and still they have plenty of wealthy neighborhoods.

[bossabreezes]

Yuri, are you in Santa Cecelia by chance? Great neighborhood, Im considering buying an apartment there soon. It's crazy how much it's changed since the mid 2010s when I left São Paulo. Same with República.

Anyway, Philly is very nice and interesting, but unfortunately it suffers from being so close to New York. If Philadelphia were further away from New York it would be far more successful. Philadelphia's economy is very weak for a city it's size, it suffers from endemic crime and poverty issues, and is generally one of the dirtiest cities Ive seen on the east coast.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a wonderful city but it's always been much rougher than it's counterparts. Almost like a larger version of Baltimore, although Baltimore has much less bright spots than Philly. It's cultural at this point and I don't see that ever changing.

[Yuri]

Originally Posted by bossabreezes

Yuri, are you in Santa Cecelia by chance? Great neighborhood, Im considering buying an apartment there soon. It's crazy how much it's changed since the mid 2010s when I left São Paulo. Same with República.

Anyway, Philly is very nice and interesting, but unfortunately it suffers from being so close to New York. If Philadelphia were further away from New York it would be far more successful. Philadelphia's economy is very weak for a city it's size, it suffers from endemic crime and poverty issues, and is generally one of the dirtiest cities Ive seen on the east coast.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a wonderful city but it's always been much rougher than it's counterparts. Almost like a larger version of Baltimore, although Baltimore has much less bright spots than Philly. It's cultural at this point and I don't see that ever changing.

República, Bossa! If someone role me I’d move here a year ago, I’d call the person crazy, that it was too messy for me, only a place to go party and leave quickly. And now I bought an apartament here. Despite to be a bit unsure in the beginning, I’m completely in love. This neighbourhood is changing at an extremely fast pace, everyday there’s a new thing going on, but without losing its diversity and authenticity.

About Philadelphia, I was thinking about the future, with the city talking the leftovers from New York that is becoming too expensive, with the whole Manhattan becoming Upper East Side.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Those suburban highrise nodes are pretty awful at ground level, given the density. Vancouver is the classic "over-promise, under-deliver" city when it comes to urbanity.

If we're going to include suburbia, every city in Canada/US is going to have walkability issues. Those suburban high rise nodes in Vancouver won't compare to downtown but they likely have better walkability than suburbia in most cities. If that's a case of "over-promise, under-deliver" I'd take that over "no-promise, no-delivery" when it comes to urbanity.