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  #41  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 4:44 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
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Originally Posted by dave8721 View Post
Ugh. This is why we can't have nice things (too many competing little fiefdoms with their own transit agencies). Miami Beach is looking to move ahead with its side of the Baylink route independent of Miami and MDTransit meaning you may have to take one train just to get over the bridge and switch to a totally different line (run by a totally different operator) to get around Miami Beach.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...e58554368.html
Awesome!!! They still have a long way to go. Hopefully the federal will have to be approves. They won't take long.
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  #42  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 7:36 PM
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Well... American cities are notorious for chopping up transit systems along nonsensical turf lines, where everybody loses.

BUT... user demand will likely force the two systems to merge eventually. Really the only issue is power collection, since Miami Beach is insistent on no overhead wires while budget pressures may force Miami-Dade to use overhead on their section. Regardless, it's not a crazy expense to equip vehicles with two types of power contacts.
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  #43  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2016, 7:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Well... American cities are notorious for chopping up transit systems along nonsensical turf lines, where everybody loses.

BUT... user demand will likely force the two systems to merge eventually. Really the only issue is power collection, since Miami Beach is insistent on no overhead wires while budget pressures may force Miami-Dade to use overhead on their section. Regardless, it's not a crazy expense to equip vehicles with two types of power contacts.
Overhead wires don't make sense in Miami due too hurricanes . We tried that already in the 1920's!


http://web.miamibeachfl.gov/uploaded...i,%201920s.jpg
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 6:36 AM
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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...l-project.html

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The city will now negotiate a long-term PPP contract with the consortium to design, build, finance, operate and maintain the line. If the city cannot reach an agreement with the consortium it could open talks with the second and third-placed bidders, Connect Miami Beach and Miami Beach Mobility Partners.
Thought you want to see this. So go ahead to read the news about light-rail to Miami Beach.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 6:58 AM
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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...l-project.html
Thought you want to see this. So go ahead to read the news about light-rail to Miami Beach.
Connect Miami Beach light rail vehicle vendor is CAF which has supplied light rail vehicles for D.C.'s Purple Line, Houston, and Sacramento and streetcars for Cincinnati and Kansas City. Miami Beach Mobility Partners light rail vehicle vendor is Brookville which has supplied streetcars to Dallas, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and SEPTA.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 5:17 PM
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Overhead wires don't make sense in Miami due too hurricanes . We tried that already in the 1920's!
New Orleans makes it work, with arguably a thicker/denser tree canopy than Miami.

Hurricanes don't just bring winds and flying debris, they also bring flash flooding which will kill any kind of buried power system, and cause corrosion damage if salt water. That's very very expensive to restore, whereas overhead wires are no more difficult to restore than power lines.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 6:46 PM
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New Orleans makes it work, with arguably a thicker/denser tree canopy than Miami.

Hurricanes don't just bring winds and flying debris, they also bring flash flooding which will kill any kind of buried power system, and cause corrosion damage if salt water. That's very very expensive to restore, whereas overhead wires are no more difficult to restore than power lines.
I agree with you, overhead power lines are easy to replace. What Miami has now works very well because the third rail and tracks are elevated on a viaduct. As soon as you place the tracks and third rail on the ground, flooding becomes a major problem.
But the experience of Galveston should be remembered, the expense of replacing the power lines and overhead catenary was too much to rstore their historic trolley back into service. I believe the key thing to consider is how much insurance the transit agency has. It's my personal opinion that streetcars should have great insurance coverage in hurricane prone communities.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 7:09 PM
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^ If I do recall Metrorail was up & running very quickly after Hurricane Andrew. I prefer a elevated extension of Metrorail to South Beach.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 8:09 PM
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^ If I do recall Metrorail was up & running very quickly after Hurricane Andrew. I prefer a elevated extension of Metrorail to South Beach.
But Miami Beach can't afford all on its own an elevated rail line over its main streets. And it certainly can't afford the real estate to tear down buildings to make a new corridor. So it's going to be a streetcar/light rail line in dedicated lanes within existing streets. .
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  #50  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 8:14 PM
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But the experience of Galveston should be remembered, the expense of replacing the power lines and overhead catenary was too much to rstore their historic trolley back into service.
The Galveston trolley had no overhead wires, the vehicles were diesel powered like a bus retrofitted into a historic carbody. The only restoration needs are to refurbish the flood-damaged vehicles. Anyway, that says more about the priorities of Galveston than it does about sound engineering practice. With limited monies to rebuild, the tourist theme park ride wasn't deemed to be very important.

A real transit system that brings people to work and to school usually garners a lot more grassroots political support. The costs to rebuild the NY subway after Sandy were staggering, but at no point in time did MTA ever consider abandoning portions of the system. As a counter-example, New Orleans restored the tourist-oriented streetcar service fairly quickly after Katrina, but bus service was radically cut back because the bus fleet was decimated and the sales tax receipts in Orleans Parish plummeted in the post-K economy.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2016, 9:00 PM
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The Galveston trolley had no overhead wires, the vehicles were diesel powered like a bus retrofitted into a historic carbody. The only restoration needs are to refurbish the flood-damaged vehicles. Anyway, that says more about the priorities of Galveston than it does about sound engineering practice. With limited monies to rebuild, the tourist theme park ride wasn't deemed to be very important.

A real transit system that brings people to work and to school usually garners a lot more grassroots political support. The costs to rebuild the NY subway after Sandy were staggering, but at no point in time did MTA ever consider abandoning portions of the system. As a counter-example, New Orleans restored the tourist-oriented streetcar service fairly quickly after Katrina, but bus service was radically cut back because the bus fleet was decimated and the sales tax receipts in Orleans Parish plummeted in the post-K economy.
Thanks for the correction, i just assumed those trolleys were powered by electricity.
Never-the-less, if insurance had covered the expense of returning those trolleys to service, Galveston probably would have them up and running again. Likewise for the New Orleans buses.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2016, 5:52 PM
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Thanks for the correction, i just assumed those trolleys were powered by electricity.
Never-the-less, if insurance had covered the expense of returning those trolleys to service, Galveston probably would have them up and running again. Likewise for the New Orleans buses.
Even with more buses, NORTA couldn't afford to run them. With a reduced population in New Orleans and many businesses closed, the sales tax revenue dropped to a fraction of what it once was, and fares haven't been allowed to increase since the 1990s. I believe NORTA made the decision to use FEMA funding to harden the bus depots and install flood protection instead of replacing the fleet entirely.

It is interesting operating a large transit system in a hurricane zone. Hopefully Miami doesn't run into the same kind of catastrophe!
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  #53  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2016, 6:50 PM
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It doesn't take a hurricane to flood Miami Beach. High tides submerge parts of the city a few times a year, specifically around West Ave and Alton Rd where the train may be running.
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