New York Supertalls

[hunser]

This one would be good for photoshop ...

http://samhorine.tumblr.com/post/725...-december-2013

[hunser]

Looking back, NYC has a strange history of height increases and decreases. The smaller buildings (700 - 900ft) mostly get a height boost, whereas the supertalls tend to get a haircut (with some exceptions of course).

The most important ones:
- Nordstrom Tower: down from 1,550 to 1,424. [ft]
- 432 PA: down from 1,420 to 1,396. [ft]
- 30 Hudson Yards: down from 1,337 to 1,227. [ft]
- Tower Verre: down from 1,250 to 1,050. [ft] (most tragic)
- 3WTC: down from 1,240 to 1,170. [ft]
- GiraSole: down from 1,060 to 1,034. [ft]
- 10 Hudson Yards: down from 1,017 to 895. [ft]

The exceptions:
- 111 West 57th St: up from 670 to 1,350. [ft] (most surprising)
- 35 Hudson Yards: up from 900 to 1000. [ft]
- 4WTC: up from 950 to 977. [ft]

[hunser]

Notice how the city's (future) tallest towers are all in the same height range:

1WTC: 1,373ft
2WTC: 1,349ft
111W57th: 1,350ft
432 PA: 1,396ft
Nordstrom: 1,424ft

It's quite interesting that the limit seems to be about ~1,400ft. What the city really needs, is a real (i.e. to the roof) 1,600 or 1,700 foot tall building. Because as of now we don't have a signature tower. So I really hope the Hudson Spire can deliver here.

[hunser]

It also amazes me that 2nd or even 3rd tier Chinese cities build 500m+ monsters whereas New York and America in general struggle to put up a solid 1,400 footer. Ok maybe NY doesn't, but still. Don't get me wrong, I can understand how Shanghai or Shenzhen build their megatalls, but some local town? Doesn't even have a couple of 200m+ towers, yet they build 2,000ft monsters. I guess that's the price you have to pay when building on demand.

Just some examples (there are a lot more which are not in the CTBUH database):

1. Sky City Changsha (CN) 838[m] 2749[ft] 202[fl]
2. Suzhou Zhongnan Center Suzhou (CN) 700 ** 2297 138
3. Ping An Finance Center Shenzhen (CN) 660 2165 115
4. Wuhan Greenland Center Wuhan (CN) 636 2087 125
5. Shanghai Tower Shanghai (CN) 632 2073 128
6. Goldin Finance 117 Tianjin (CN) 597 1957 128
7. Rose Rock International Finance Center Tianjin (CN) 588 1929
8. Pearl of the North Shenyang (CN) 565 1854 111
9. The Evergrande International Finance Center Jinan (CN) 560 1837 135
10. Guizhou Cultural Plaza Orchid Tower Guiyang (CN) 540 1772 -
11. The CTF Guangzhou Guangzhou (CN) 530 1739 111
11. Tianjin Chow Tai Fook Binhai Center Tianjin (CN) 530 1739 97
13. Zhongguo Zun Beijing (CN) 528 1732 108
14. Dalian Greenland Center Dalian (CN) 518 1699 88
15. Evergrande IFC Main Tower Hefei (CN) 502 1647 112

Hefei, Dalian, Guiyang, Jinan, ...

Here's a list of 400m+ by z0rg:


Meaning that about any Chinese city will have a taller tower than New York or Chicago lol ...

[uaarkson]

The important thing to understand is that China has a lot of government money being indirectly and sometimes even directly pumped into those 'mega projects.' The buildings themselves may be impressive but the forces behind them are not. I find New York's naturally developed projects much more compelling.

20+ supertalls in NYC and only a handful of them are getting any assistance from local or federal government.

[Perklol]

A 2000' monstrosity would look out of place in NYC. Also, I thought these Chinese cities were building big to make up for something??

[hunser]

Originally Posted by uaarkson

The important thing to understand is that China has a lot of government money being indirectly and sometimes even directly pumped into those 'mega projects.' The buildings themselves may be impressive but the forces behind them are not. I find New York's naturally developed projects much more compelling.

20+ supertalls in NYC and only a handful of them are getting any assistance from local or federal government.

Yes, and I find it beyond amazing too that New York manages to build so many supertalls. I'm not saying we should compete in the sense of "who's got the bigger building" but a slight height push, aka a solid 1,700 footer would be nice.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by hunser

Yes, and I find it beyond amazing too that New York manages to build so many supertalls. I'm not saying we should compete in the sense of "who's got the bigger building" but a slight height push, aka a solid 1,700 footer would be nice.

I'm sure a building of that height will eventually come to Manhattan. Hudson Yards, the 57th Street corridor, Grand Central area, and Lower Manhattan are all possible areas.

People don't realize just how many potential supertall sites exist along 57th. There are a half-dozen or so assemblages where the developers can easily go supertall. Given the track record, I would be surprised if any of these developers did not go supertall (given that all four buildings for which we have rough stats along 57th are supertalls- 432 is 1400, 225 is 1400-1500, Park Hyatt around 1000, and Vornado around 1000.)

So, given that we're basically 4/4, I would imagine the rest would fall in line. Why would you build along 57th and not build a supertall? The value is in the height and views.

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

A 2000' monstrosity would look out of place in NYC. Also, I thought these Chinese cities were building big to make up for something??

NY looks like it will gradually build to that height. In other words, I think we will see a 1600' , 1800', and then a 2000'. We already have WTC1. In midtown, Nordstrom is around 1450', Hudson spire will be 1800' (Hopefully), and soon we might get one that breaks the elite 600m mark.

What is important though is that the ESB is no longer the top dog. Icon it is, but its great to finally see the star of the 20th century finally relinquish its title. The king has reigned for far to long in Midtown.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hunser

4. Nordstrom Tower, 1432ft (434m), Site Preparation
5. 432 Park Avenue, 1396ft (425,1m), Under Construction
6. 111 West 57th Street, 1350ft (411,5m), Site Preparation
7. Two World Trade Center, 1349ft (411,2m), Under Construction (currently on hold)

I see you're updating the OP often... Are those heights final in all four cases? (Probably not for 2 WTC, but the three others are a go, so I suppose we should know the final figure at this point?)

[chris08876]

Nordstrom Tower and WTC2 might change slightly. Nordstrom is getting build, but theres the whole cantilever issue, but it wont result in anything super dramatic height wise if they choose to build it slightly higher. WTC2 for all we know might not even get build unless a dam tenant is found. Like WTC1(Spire), I fear they may sacrifice some features in order to make it cheaper to build and thus come to fruition or speed it up.

[hunser]

Originally Posted by lio45

I see you're updating the OP often... Are those heights final in all four cases? (Probably not for 2 WTC, but the three others are a go, so I suppose we should know the final figure at this point?)

- Nordstrom's current height figure is 1,424 and that's the minimum. Expect a slight height increase, but nothing big. Digging is under way, construction to start any day.
- 432 PA is set in stone, it will rise 1,396ft to the parapet. Tower should top out by early next year.
- Steinway's (aka 111W57th) height is approximately 1,350ft. Stern stated in a recent article that the tower is close to 1,400 feet. We'll see about that. Funding is secured and they are starting with excavating.
- 2WTC's height and design remains untouched, for now. Hopefully a tenant will be found soon, so this behemoth can finally start rising. Currently just above street level.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Nordstrom Tower and WTC2 might change slightly. Nordstrom is getting build, but theres the whole cantilever issue, but it wont result in anything super dramatic height wise if they choose to build it slightly higher. WTC2 for all we know might not even get build unless a dam tenant is found. Like WTC1(Spire), I fear they may sacrifice some features in order to make it cheaper to build and thus come to fruition or speed it up.

There's zero indication that WTC 2 will have any changes.

It's probably an even more solid bet than any of the 57th Street towers, in that it will eventually be built no matter what, while most the supertowers are somewhat dependent on economic conditions.

[lio45]

Those three slim Central Park supertalls (111, 225, 432) are absolutely insane! Especially together!!

[King DenCity]

^Agreed. Each will be a new mega landmark for NYC.

[King DenCity]

I'm hoping that hudson yards will give NYC some good street-side appeal in an open concept way if that makes sense.

[C.]

Sky's the limit: Mayor de Blasio says he would OK affordable housing buildings at any size
'I'm deadly serious about 200,000 units of affordable housing,' de Blasio told a closed-door meeting of real estate developers.

Get ready for even taller skyscrapers and more densely packed neighborhoods.
Mayor de Blasio told a closed-door meeting of real estate barons Wednesday that he has no “hangup” about allowing them to supersize their developments if it means creating more affordable housing.

“As we get to know each other . . . I hope people hear me loud and clear that the only way I can achieve my goals is if we are building and building aggressively,” he said.

“I’m deadly serious about 200,000 units of affordable housing.”
Leaving no doubt what he meant, de Blasio said reaching his housing goals would require erecting the biggest buildings possible.

He called it a “willingness to use height and density to the maximum feasible extent. This is something I’ve said in our previous meetings I don’t have a hangup about. I think it’s necessary to do what I’m here to do.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...#ixzz2tzznL1Ms

[Zapatan]

Originally Posted by hunser

It also amazes me that 2nd or even 3rd tier Chinese cities build 500m+ monsters whereas New York and America in general struggle to put up a solid 1,400 footer. Ok maybe NY doesn't, but still. Don't get me wrong, I can understand how Shanghai or Shenzhen build their megatalls, but some local town? Doesn't even have a couple of 200m+ towers, yet they build 2,000ft monsters. I guess that's the price you have to pay when building on demand.

Just some examples (there are a lot more which are not in the CTBUH database):

1. Sky City Changsha (CN) 838[m] 2749[ft] 202[fl]
2. Suzhou Zhongnan Center Suzhou (CN) 700 ** 2297 138
3. Ping An Finance Center Shenzhen (CN) 660 2165 115
4. Wuhan Greenland Center Wuhan (CN) 636 2087 125
5. Shanghai Tower Shanghai (CN) 632 2073 128
6. Goldin Finance 117 Tianjin (CN) 597 1957 128
7. Rose Rock International Finance Center Tianjin (CN) 588 1929
8. Pearl of the North Shenyang (CN) 565 1854 111
9. The Evergrande International Finance Center Jinan (CN) 560 1837 135
10. Guizhou Cultural Plaza Orchid Tower Guiyang (CN) 540 1772 -
11. The CTF Guangzhou Guangzhou (CN) 530 1739 111
11. Tianjin Chow Tai Fook Binhai Center Tianjin (CN) 530 1739 97
13. Zhongguo Zun Beijing (CN) 528 1732 108
14. Dalian Greenland Center Dalian (CN) 518 1699 88
15. Evergrande IFC Main Tower Hefei (CN) 502 1647 112

Hefei, Dalian, Guiyang, Jinan, ...

Here's a list of 400m+ by z0rg:


Meaning that about any Chinese city will have a taller tower than New York or Chicago lol ...

My guess is a lot of those projects will end up on hold when the market crashes.

Plus most of those cities save shanghai, shenzhen and guangzhou will only have one or two supertalls whereas nyc will have like 15

China is also a much much more populated country obviously

[chris08876]

China has something like 300 super talls proposed, UC, on hold, ect.). Most will not be built. Its economics. NY is all natural growth. A lot of this is hype. But..., for our sake, lets not hope the market crash's in China. China and U.S. rely on each other too much.

I'm liking this DeBlasio guy, considering I wanted Quinn to win. Let's hope he continues the Bloomberg trend of excellence. Bloomberg was a great mayor.

[King DenCity]

Originally Posted by CIA

Sky's the limit: Mayor de Blasio says he would OK affordable housing buildings at any size
'I'm deadly serious about 200,000 units of affordable housing,' de Blasio told a closed-door meeting of real estate developers.

Get ready for even taller skyscrapers and more densely packed neighborhoods.
Mayor de Blasio told a closed-door meeting of real estate barons Wednesday that he has no “hangup” about allowing them to supersize their developments if it means creating more affordable housing.

“As we get to know each other . . . I hope people hear me loud and clear that the only way I can achieve my goals is if we are building and building aggressively,” he said.

“I’m deadly serious about 200,000 units of affordable housing.”
Leaving no doubt what he meant, de Blasio said reaching his housing goals would require erecting the biggest buildings possible.

He called it a “willingness to use height and density to the maximum feasible extent. This is something I’ve said in our previous meetings I don’t have a hangup about. I think it’s necessary to do what I’m here to do.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...#ixzz2tzznL1Ms

Very encouraging to the thought of not one but many new tallest buildings in the country.