Winnipeg Construction X

[pacman]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

Would you consider the Perimeter a success? Given how long it took to build, how much it cost, and what its used for today.

I know you didn't ask me, but in my opinion it is a success, but it could have been more successful just like anything if it was built out fully and properly at the time. But even as built and current use is still great infrastructure. The problem is we're so far behind in getting it to its best use that it will be obsolete if we ever get there with uses and needs changing all the time.

[Biff]

This is why I am more of an advocate of getting it built free flowing, limited access (essentially at 1960's technology). I don't subscribe to the complaints that they are scrimping (or do not know what they are doing) if they don't build flyovers and high speed systems interchanges.

There are no more large high speed to high speed (59N & 101) interchanges left to build (Kenaston is the exception), so I say that for the price of one 59N & 101 for $250m, you could effectively build 10 basic, diamond interchanges ($25m or so) that will help the highway way more than one massive interchange at say 101 & 6.

I also do not agree with spending big bucks "right now" redoing 100E and #1 or 100W and Portage. Sure they need to be upgraded, but I would much rather see $25m diamonds at Pipeline, #6, Oak Bluff, #2, Brady, Kenaston, St Annes, Symington, Dugald, Gunn and Wenzel....OK, maybe Kenaston could be a bigger Interchange.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

There are no more large high speed to high speed (59N & 101) interchanges left to build (Kenaston is the exception), so I say that for the price of one 59N & 101 for $250m, you could effectively build 10 basic, diamond interchanges ($25m or so) that will help the highway way more than one massive interchange at say 101 & 6.

I also do not agree with spending big bucks "right now" redoing 100E and #1 or 100W and Portage. Sure they need to be upgraded, but I would much rather see $25m diamonds at Pipeline, #6, Oak Bluff, #2, Brady, Kenaston, St Annes, Symington, Dugald, Gunn and Wenzel....OK, maybe Kenaston could be a bigger Interchange.

HWY 6 needs something better than a diamond. The medium term vision is for it to be one of the two major connector routes to CentrePort and likely the main access point for the shipping container railyard when that eventually happens. Sure build a diamond today but have a plan in place to upgrade it. Also keep in mind HWY 6 is a major commercial truck route to northern communities and needs to take that into account.

Oka Bluff (HWY 2/3) is another major commercial trucking route. A diamond could would there but needs to account for the type of traffic going through that intersection.

Kennaston is going to be similar to CCW in terms of complexities and costs when it gets built as Keannaston is the north leg of the St Norbert by pass. That is going to eventually be a full interchange. With that in mind I would suggest putting in at the end of the list for now as it won't be cheap or easy to cross off.

Dugald, Gunn, the eastern CPT extension and the OakBank cooridor (HWY 15 relocation) are basically one package deal. As it is today Dugald (HWY 15) likely warrants a full interchange but the tight proximity to the CN mainline makes that near impossible. There is also the long proposed HWY 15 relocation, aka the OakBank coordior route. The traffic volume on HWY 15 is long past unsafe for a two-lane highway and the proximity of the CN mainline has many of the most dangerous rail crossings in the Manitoba. Moving HWY 15 north to align with a CPT extension solves the current HWY 15 issues, reduces the complexity of a Dugald/101 grade separation and moves towards the goal of a inner ring road for Winnipeg. The inner ring road is basically a square with the routes connecting past the corners to the Perimeter. CPT being the northern side.

In terms of Portage Ave, the current volume is just not sustainable as-is. At peak times it is extremely difficult to merge into through traffic. The conversion to a diamond would work to address that to some extent but without the added 3 lanes of through traffic beyond that point it would likely be a short term gain.

[buzzg]

Can we move road-specific perimeter talk to that thread

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by pacman

I know you didn't ask me, but in my opinion it is a success, but it could have been more successful just like anything if it was built out fully and properly at the time. But even as built and current use is still great infrastructure. The problem is we're so far behind in getting it to its best use that it will be obsolete if we ever get there with uses and needs changing all the time.

All opinions are welcome, and I thank you for yours!

I agree that now, after several decades, the Perimeter is showing some added value to the city of Winnipeg. And if this stands as the closet thing Winnipeg ever has to a freeway I'll be happy.

I think the way its being completed is not idea. It would have been good to have the entire circle completed in 1 go (twinned the whole way around), and then slowly add on interchanges as needs arise over time. Were just now FINALLY at a place where interchanges can be added to a finally completed circle.

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Can we move road-specific perimeter talk to that thread

I'm always a bit confused why people think this way on the Winnipeg forum. Are forums not meant for discussion?

It's not like the Winnipeg thread was bursting with so much discussion that multiple convo's needed to be split up to keep things clean. Winnipeg's construction thread has been a ghost town lately, while we all wait for something of interest to discuss.

Theres not much construction goin on in ol Winnipeg right now - and what little we have has its own sub threads.

If we don't talk about SOMETHING in this thread then it will go back to silence until Viking or someone gives us a small little glimmer of a project that maybe will exist at some point in the next few-to-several years or decades

[buzzg]

Here's someone... I was told by someone at Bell MTS that they're getting ready to consolidate all their operations here into the smaller Pioneer building and completely vacate the Main building. Could happen before 2021 is over.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Here's someone... I was told by someone at Bell MTS that they're getting ready to consolidate all their operations here into the smaller Pioneer building and completely vacate the Main building. Could happen before 2021 is over.

Funny considering MTS moved to that building to take advantage of its near empty state after its original anchor tenant Bank of Montreal vacated it in the 90s. Now it will be mostly vacant again...

[Wpg_Guy]

^ I wonder if Artis will realize its potential as residential?

[Wigglez]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Here's someone... I was told by someone at Bell MTS that they're getting ready to consolidate all their operations here into the smaller Pioneer building and completely vacate the Main building. Could happen before 2021 is over.

GASP!! Something to endlessly speculate over!!! Finally!

Didn't Bell claim that they were going to make Winnipeg the "Western HQ" or some nonsense when they bought MTS? That's going... well...

[Wpg_Guy]

I believe they are also preparing to drop the MTS moniker.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Wigglez

GASP!! Something to endlessly speculate over!!! Finally!

Didn't Bell claim that they were going to make Winnipeg the "Western HQ" or some nonsense when they bought MTS? That's going... well...

Sounds like the jobs aren't necessarily leaving, many have actually been relocated here in the last few years. Lots of departments haven't seen a drop in production, so will be going permanently to WFH or flex work. Sounded like call-heavy positions, but more standard "office" jobs will stay. Obviously that could technically mean people could work those remote jobs from anywhere now.

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

^ I wonder if Artis will realize its potential as residential?

It would actually make sense to that, bolster their investment in residential at P&M and make the vicinity even more attractive to live in. I would love for both these towers (and numerous others) to reinvent their main floors/lobbies as amenity spaces or with commercial.

[Jeff]

everyone had their MTS phone bills increase instantly, we lost competition, we lost a locally headquartered company and countless jobs.. how did this deal have any kind of net positive on Mb except for the shareholders who mostly don't live here?

[Jeff]

makes me wonder if bell will still be needing that awful little building on S. Osborne at the underpass. would be amazing if that site would be freed up and properly densified.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Jeff

makes me wonder if bell will still be needing that awful little building on S. Osborne at the underpass. would be amazing if that site would be freed up and properly densified.

That "development" with Co-Op and McDonalds is one of the biggest blasphemies in Winnipeg IMO. It creates a huge disconnect between OV/CC and South Osborne. Densifying it with mixed use built out to the street would be fantastic, pushing South Osborne northward and hopefully putting more pressure on doing something (ANYTHING) with Confusion Corner.

[1ajs]

bells trying to get their hands on hydro telcom as well and is why it got froze. been a back door stink raised in favour stoping bell.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy

^ I wonder if Artis will realize its potential as residential?

I suppose it would be nice to see the building remain occupied one way or another, but on some level it would be a bit depressing if the owners of a relatively modern office tower at Portage and Main decided that the downtown office market was so hopeless that turning it into an apartment building is the most logical thing to do.

I'll also lament the missed opportunity of combining a vacant MTS Place with former Bank of Montreal next door to turn it into a spectacular hotel. Lobby and dining in the old bank, rooms in the tower. Could have been spectacular!

[1ajs]

who knows maybe mmf gets the tower eventualy

[CoryB]

I don't know a lot of people that worked for MTS but it seems everyone I did know got permanently laid off.

I said it back when the merger was first announced, it seemed clear that most of the higher paying jobs would leave MB and we might have similar or even a slight gain in total employees as more low paying call centre type jobs move in to keep the numbers up.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

who knows maybe mmf gets the tower eventualy

Speaking of the MMF, I was under the impression that they would be turning the Bank of Montreal into a museum/cultural centre type facility, but the recent Free Press series about homelessness and the encampment near the MMF's building on Henry Avenue implied that they were apparently planning to move the entire operation to Portage and Main.

I'm not sure how accurate that is (the writer was not approaching it from a business perspective) but if true then that's interesting. I would think the MMF would fill the Bank of Montreal right up. Although that said, I can't imagine that the MMF would need much more space than that, it's hard to imagine them taking over the tower unless they buy it as an investment.

And on that note, I wonder what will happen to the MMF's current building on Henry, the former Canadian Pacific Telecommunications office building? The building dates back to 1960 and the location is not great (the MMF is reportedly tired of all the issues related to that located), so with the MMF moving out it will be interesting to see what happens to it next.