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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:16 PM
pacarlson pacarlson is offline
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I don't think Houston is a likely candidate for this no matter how strong the economy ever gets there. I thought the FAA placed a height limit of just a bit over 1,000' for most areas of Houston, such as downtown and the Galleria area. These are the two most likely areas in Houston to build one if the height restriction didn't exist.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacarlson View Post
I don't think Houston is a likely candidate for this no matter how strong the economy ever gets there. I thought the FAA placed a height limit of just a bit over 1,000' for most areas of Houston, such as downtown and the Galleria area. These are the two most likely areas in Houston to build one if the height restriction didn't exist.


FAA controls airspace after 2,000' which is why there are no American towers that high.

RE: Houston. I think they just have to clear with the FAA but back in the early 80's, there were plans for a 1400' tower but the oil crash canceled the project. Hobby Airport did impact the Chase (then Texas Commerce) Tower which was was scaled down from 80 stories to 75.
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:31 PM
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The mysterious 2000ft height limit by the FAA.

The FAA cares about the efficient use of airspace. Believe it or not you can exceed it and there are structures that have applied to the FAA and received permission to build in excess of 2000ft tall. I believe in all cases these have been guyed masts and not habitable structures, but I believe that's because there isn't market demand for a 2000ft structure yet.

Take a look at this letter- https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external...etterID=159706

It explains the process.
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  #44  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:39 PM
pacarlson pacarlson is offline
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
... there were plans for a 1400' tower but the oil crash canceled the project. Hobby Airport did impact the Chase (then Texas Commerce) Tower which was was scaled down from 80 stories to 75.
That's right! I forgot about that. There were also a couple of other towers proposed around that time; both around 80 floors +/- IRRC.
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  #45  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
FAA controls airspace after 2,000' which is why there are no American towers that high.

RE: Houston. I think they just have to clear with the FAA but back in the early 80's, there were plans for a 1400' tower but the oil crash canceled the project. Hobby Airport did impact the Chase (then Texas Commerce) Tower which was was scaled down from 80 stories to 75.
Bank of the Southwest Tower, right? In that case it sounds like you can't build over 1000' in Houston after all if Hobby airport sheared some floors off the Chase Tower, didn't realize it was so close. Was the BOSW planned for that area? I guess they never got approval for the height.

Houston is so large though maybe in a different part of the city it would be feasible.
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 5:59 PM
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In hindsight this thread probably should have been "Which non-NYC or Chicago city in the US will build a 3-350 meter tower", 400 is wishful thinking but maybe a stretch, although who knows decades down the line?
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 6:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Bank of the Southwest Tower, right? In that case it sounds like you can't build over 1000' in Houston after all if Hobby airport sheared some floors off the Chase Tower, didn't realize it was so close. Was the BOSW planned for that area? I guess they never got approval for the height.

Houston is so large though maybe in a different part of the city it would be feasible.
Yes, Bank of Southwest was planned for downtown but oil bust canceled project. Chase Tower is just a smidge over 1,000' and probably would have been around 1,100' if it was to keep original design.

The only other area, where there are tall buildings is Galleria/ Uptown a few miles away and the tallest there is 901' (since 1983) but there was a proposal for a 1,000'+ about 15 years ago.
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Yes, Bank of Southwest was planned for downtown but oil bust canceled project. Chase Tower is just a smidge over 1,000' and probably would have been around 1,100' if it was to keep original design.

The only other area, where there are tall buildings is Galleria/ Uptown a few miles away and the tallest there is 901' (since 1983) but there was a proposal for a 1,000'+ about 15 years ago.
That would have been sweet (an 1100' Chase Tower I mean). Williams Tower could use some company though, which proposal was it?
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  #49  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2020, 7:28 PM
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Outside of NYC or Chicago? Then most likely it would be LA. Real estate prices there are high so it could make sense. Houston or Dallas might be the next contenders considering their blistering metro growth.
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  #50  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 12:50 AM
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Possibly Miami. A condo tower for relocating NYC and overseas billionaires.
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  #51  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 2:56 AM
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^ but doesn't downtown Miami have FAA issues with approach paths into MIA?

I think some of their 300m proposals have run into issues with that, so I assume that 400+m would be out of the question.
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  #52  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 3:22 AM
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^ but doesn't downtown Miami have FAA issues with approach paths into MIA?

I think some of their 300m proposals have run into issues with that, so I assume that 400+m would be out of the question.
I may be wrong but I think Miami did approve a 300m proposal at some point (Waldorf Astoria maybe?)

400 is way taller so yea, Maybe Miami is out.

This thread makes me kind of depressed, at least the US has New York (and maybe Chicago if it builds tall again).
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  #53  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 4:49 AM
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FAA restrictions:



But they could still get approved at that height or greater, and have with some proposals. But general rule of thumb. 50 ft +/- in some cases to the max AMSL parameter.

From a project feasibility standpoint, could Miami muster a 400m ultra luxury building and sell it? Of course. Next to NYC, Miami has the market to make a project feasible in theory.

Just look at the success over in Sunny Isles Beach. Unfortunately Miami has had bad luck with its 300m proposals. They are fine selling out and building towers over 750 ft, but 1000 ft+ seems to be the unlucky line.
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  #54  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 4:56 AM
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^^^

Just a follow up. This list is from Jan 2020, prior to the pandemic. Some of the prohjects below 650 ft are seeing progress either in demo or pre-sales, but the same concept remains, over 1000 ft is where the hurdle remains. Okan Tower is seeing presales btw.

I think Waldorf Astoria has the best chance of rising out of the super talls. CCCC towers was canceled. One Bayfront Plaza remains a long term vision but thanks to its new functionality ratio, it might have a chance.

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  #55  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 5:00 AM
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The 1120 feet was never approved by the FAA as far as I know and that building was never pursued anyway. Its been on the back burner for years as FEC built out the Miami Central Terminal with smaller apartment towers.
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  #56  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 5:17 AM
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Miami Central was another one that didn't make the bucket list. This was from Jan 2020.

On a side note, I hope something manifests with the CCCC Parcel given the legal troubles with that project.
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  #57  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 5:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I may be wrong but I think Miami did approve a 300m proposal at some point (Waldorf Astoria maybe?)

400 is way taller so yea, Maybe Miami is out.

This thread makes me kind of depressed, at least the US has New York (and maybe Chicago if it builds tall again).
The US still pumps out an obscene amount of 100-200m towers, if we take to account all of its cities. But yeah, NY is on another galaxy in the height category (have you seen Empire Station, and what can manifest from that... 9 towers, with a potential of 18-20 million sq-ft.... big stuff overall), but what has been going on in Miami or Seattle and even in some Texan cities is promising.

I think we'll get back into the skyscraper/high rise motion once this global rubbish clears up, but compared to let's say 2010... the last decade has seen a lot of our cities have big overhauls of their skylines or skyscraper nodes. In general, the U.S. is still doing well in terms of the skyscraper game. I mean just close one's eyes and ignore China if we don't want our ego hurt... but overall, we are doing ok lol.
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  #58  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
The US still pumps out an obscene amount of 100-200m towers, if we take to account all of its cities. But yeah, NY is on another galaxy in the height category (have you seen Empire Station, and what can manifest from that... 9 towers, with a potential of 18-20 million sq-ft.... big stuff overall), but what has been going on in Miami or Seattle and even in some Texan cities is promising.

I think we'll get back into the skyscraper/high rise motion once this global rubbish clears up, but compared to let's say 2010... the last decade has seen a lot of our cities have big overhauls of their skylines or skyscraper nodes. In general, the U.S. is still doing well in terms of the skyscraper game. I mean just close one's eyes and ignore China if we don't want our ego hurt... but overall, we are doing ok lol.
Yea this is true, overall the US is a good (or great) place to live if you like skyscrapers since most places barely have them. It'd be nice to step up our game a little even if we never hit China status.

China has nearly 1.5 billion people and it's cheap to build there (even free if they use slave labor) Not a fair comparison with the US obviously.

I just feel that other Westernized nations like Canada or Australia build more per capita, and especially places like Malaysia or the UAE. Kuala Lumpur is barely a bigger city than Philadelphia.
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  #59  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 4:08 PM
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the US is still building a good deal of tallish towers, it's just that they're primarily happening in fewer cities these days.

the US has actually built more towers over 700' so far in this century than it did in all of the 20th century, but 90% of them have been built in just 5 cities - NYC/JC, Chicago, Miami, Philly, and SF.

and of course the extremely tall stuff (400m) is only happening in NYC these days, though Chicago might surprise us in a couple years.



US 700'+ skyscrapers built before 2000: 93

NYC - 28 (includes 3 towers that have since been destroyed/demolished)
Chicago - 12
Houston - 10
Los Angeles - 8
Atlanta - 5
Dallas - 5
Seattle - 4
Philadelphia - 4
Minneapolis - 3
Cleveland - 2
San Francisco - 2
Pittsburgh - 2
Boston - 2
Denver - 2
Charlotte - 1
Miami - 1
Detroit - 1
Indianapolis - 1
Jersey City - 0
Atlantic City - 0
Austin - 0
Oklahoma City - 0
Mobile - 0



US 700'+ skyscrapers built since 2000: 97

NYC - 55
Chicago - 16
Miami - 6
Jersey City - 4
Philadelphia - 3
San Francisco - 3
Houston - 2
Los Angeles - 1
Seattle - 1
Boston - 1
Charlotte - 1
Austin - 1
Oklahoma City - 1
Mobile - 1
Atlantic City - 1
Atlanta - 0
Dallas - 0
Minneapolis - 0
Cleveland - 0
Pittsburgh - 0
Denver - 0
Indianapolis - 0
Detroit - 0


data source: CTBUH
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Aug 31, 2020 at 1:29 AM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2020, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
the US has actually built more towers over 700' so far in this century than it did in all of the 20th century, but 90% of them have been built in just 5 cities - NYC/JC, Chicago, Miami Philly, and SF
Yea, pretty incredible, we are lucky.

Quote:
and of course the extremely tall stuff (400m) is only happening in NYC these days, though Chicago might surprise us in a couple years.
I mean it is US tradition to race with NY

Does the Thompson Center vision actually have any potential to turn into a real proposal someday? That would be neat if Tribune East gets downsized or whatever.
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