Independant Metros That Benefit From Being Close To a Large metro

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by JManc

ORD is a great connecting airport (go through there several times a year) but it's a fustercluck flying in and out of..

Why? I've flown in/out of ORD nearly 120 times this year, it's hands down top 3 favorite airports in the Country.

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I get that, but even 500K would be a lot, right? That's like a third of Milwaukee's MSA.

But what % of those 500K would choose MKE over ORD? I also don't understand why someone would avoid ORD.

[pip]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Obviously if you live ridiculously close to O'Hare then there is nothing to gain by going to Milwaukee. You could also go to Midway to avoid O'Hare. But, as was discussed upthread, there are people who live in Chicagoland that have more equitable factors under consideration when deciding between ORD and MKE.

I don't live close to O'Hare, there are millions of people in Chicago and O'Hare is in Chicago. Even if I did live far from O'Hare in the far Northern suburbs what is the advantage of flying out of Milwaukee? Less options by far for me, 27 direct flights day to chose from vs. 2, and in my case the cost is twice as much from Milwaukee. How would I get to Milwaukee, drive and pay to park there, adding to the more than double cost of a flight, or a train ride on Metra into the city and pay half as much for a flight with multiple more flight options a day?

Yes I could also go to Midway, I really don't care whether it be Midway or O'Hare. I look online - choose the best option with price and schedule and both airports are easy to get to.

[SIGSEGV]

ORD is great to fly in and out of (other than customs, which can take a long time sometimes... I should get Global Entry). It probably sucks more for connections since people often get stranded there when there's bad weather (I've definitely had a few surprise visits from friends for this reason...).
The only problem with ORD is it takes me twice as long to get there by subway than to MDW (which takes less than half an hour to get to). ORD has Frontera though, so that makes up for most of it.

[Blitz]

Originally Posted by DetroitSky

Ann Arbor is in Washtenaw County, which makes up the Ann Arbor micropolitan area which is a part of the Detroit CSA. Ann Arbor, though it has its own "feel", still depends too heavily on metro Detroit to be considered separate. Most metro Detroiters would consider Ann Arbor part of metro Detroit before they considered it its own metro area.

Windsor also depends heavily on the Detroit area, and Windsor never would have become what it is if Detroit was never successful. That comment might receive flak from Windsor forumers, but if the auto industry never took off in Detroit Windsor would still be a small town.

Toledo is a better example of a standalone metro that benefits from being close to a larger metro. Toledo has about 275000 residents and the metro is about 610000. It lacks a large airport, a lot of large corporations that bigger metros have, and plentiful attractions. Toledo also strongly benefits from Detroit's auto industry.

I don't think any Windsorite would disagree with your statement. We all know how dependent we are on the auto industry and most people here are happy that we are linked to Detroit...it's one of the things that makes our city interesting. We only get upset if we are called a suburb of Detroit.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by JManc

And in very recent years, Worcester. It's been kind of forgotten and neglected but as the Boston are has got so expensive, people have rediscovered Wisteh and it's not that far away.

Missed this one, sorry guy.

My best friend moved to Worcester from Lubbock when he was 12. We’ve watched the place’s real estate skyrocket over the past 5 years and man . . . missed out on that one. But I never consider Worcester to be an independent metro; it’s functionally been a Boston edge city since before I was born. Rt 9 is one of the country’s original intercity sprawl connectors. Worcester started off as a Manchester or Wilmington, but being in the same state as Boston means it never received the same type of focus Manch and Wilmington did (and still do).

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

But what % of those 500K would choose MKE over ORD? I also don't understand why someone would avoid ORD.

Maybe Chicago doesn't need Midway if there's no chance anyone would ever have a reason to consider an airport other than O'Hare.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Maybe Chicago doesn't need Midway if there's no chance anyone would ever have a reason to consider an airport other than O'Hare.

like houston hobby and dallas love, MDW is almost exclusively a "southwest airport". ~95% of its passengers fly southwest.

it's one of the most single-carrier dominated airports in the nation. and southwest has zero service into ORD.

so if you wanna fly southwest into or out of chicago, you're gonna use MDW. if you're flying anybody else, you're almost certainly going to ORD.

Delta has token service from MDW to 3 of its hubs (ATL, DTW, MSP).

Volaris flies to a handful of destinations in central mexico from MDW.

Porter Airlines has turbo-prop service to toronto's billy bishop airport.

and that's it. no american, no united, no spirit, no jet blue, no frontier, no alaska, no sun country, etc. they're all at ORD, along with all of the international flags.

everything else at the 20M passengers/year airport is on southwest. it's southwest's busiest "hub" in the nation.

Originally Posted by pip

Even if I did live far from O'Hare in the far Northern suburbs what is the advantage of flying out of Milwaukee?

ask my sister.

as i mentioned earlier in the thread, she lives up near the border in lake county and she prefers to use MKE over ORD, IF airfare, schedule, and nonstop options are competitive with ORD because the parking rates at MKE are cheaper and because it's a much easier, smaller, more user-friendly airport to navigate.

of course, she also uses ORD when the airfare, schedule, or nonstop options from MKE are not conducive to her travel plans.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

MDW is almost exclusively a "southwest airport". ~95% of its passengers fly southwest.

And its great!

[Investing In Chicago]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Maybe Chicago doesn't need Midway if there's no chance anyone would ever have a reason to consider an airport other than O'Hare.

This doesn't make any sense. Midway is Southwest - so ORD isn't an option. Also, Midway is in the city limits of Chicago, not in Wisconsin.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

ask my sister.

as i mentioned earlier in the thread, she lives up near the border in lake county and she prefers to use MKE over ORD, IF airfare, schedule, and nonstop options are competitive with ORD because the parking rates at MKE are cheaper and because it's a much easier, smaller, more user-friendly airport to navigate.

of course, she also uses ORD when the airfare, schedule, or nonstop options from MKE are not conducive to her travel plans.

Yes, this is exactly the point I've been trying to make to others... If things like schedule, price, and distance to airport are equivalent, it makes more sense for someone to choose MKE over ORD. I bet MKE's security lines are much less stressful than ORD's as well.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago

This doesn't make any sense. Midway is Southwest - so ORD isn't an option. Also, Midway is in the city limits of Chicago, not in Wisconsin.

Do you honestly think I was suggesting someone to drive from the city of Chicago to Milwaukee to avoid O'Hare?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JManc

The Fonz approves...




..another MKE denizen.

Given that growing up I lived in places where Canadian cable operators picked up the American networks from upstate NY, it's quite possible we watched those shows on the same stations.

[isaidso]

Oshawa and to a lesser extent Buffalo benefit from proximity to Toronto. Oddly, Hamilton doesn't seem to benefit all that much from proximity to Toronto. It may actually have suffered a little from living in the shadow of a much bigger Toronto. Hamilton would have a far higher profile and status if it were nowhere near a big metro.

[M II A II R II K]

Yea at the time it was a competition between Toronto, Hamilton, and what was known as Newark at the time as to which would be the dominant city in the region.

[liat91]

If we’re talking cities not in same CSA;
Hartford
Scranton
Portland, ME
Santa Barbara
Milwaukee
Merced
Monterey
Lancaster
Harrisburg
York
Beaumont
Ocala
Rochester, MN
Colorado Springs
St. George
Bellingham

[xzmattzx]

Wilmington. I always argue that Wilmington should be in the Philadelphia CSA, but not the MSA; we're enough of an anchor.

However, our TV stations are from Philadelphia, and the Philadelphia airport gets used all the time. BWI also gets used a lot, and there's a lesser connection with Baltimore. (I also use other airports in the area. I've used Newark Liberty, Harrisburg, and Dulles for domestic flights.) A lot of people in our area would like to see commercial flights out of the Wilmington airport (we are the only state in the US without commercial flights).

There is also an even smaller connection with New York City and Washington DC, both of which are about 2 hours away in opposite directions.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Wilmington. I always argue that Wilmington should be in the Philadelphia CSA, but not the MSA; we're enough of an anchor.

True, but the ties to Philly are strong as well. I suppose that's why you guys get your own metropolitan division within the Philadelphia MSA of 725K.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

The Lehigh Valley (Allentown, Bethlehem, and Easton, PA; Phillipsburg, NJ) benefits from being closely associated with both Philadelphia and New York City, while Lancaster and Harrisburg both benefit from Philly’s orbit.

Harrisburg is pretty much it's own region, along with York and Lebanon (South Central PA), so I wouldn't really consider South central PA in Philly's orbit, albeit it does take a two hour drive between Philly and Harrisburg.

However, I believe by 2020, Lancaster County may come into Philly's CSA, much the same way Berks County was added in 2010. And the Lehigh Valley can be it's own region, albeit the relationship between Allentown and Philadelphia is that both cities share the same state, the same media, the same sports loyalties, and both cities are at least within an hour from each other, which is why I never understand why the Lehigh Valley was added to NYC's CSA, other than commuter patterns.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by wanderer34

which is why I never understand why the Lehigh Valley was added to NYC's CSA, other than commuter patterns.

CSAs are based on commuting patterns. That's the entire metric.

Your question is basically "I never understand why Philly's population is XYZ other than it's population being XYZ."