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  #1021  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 12:11 PM
Stockerzzz Stockerzzz is offline
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^ Their main argument is that 42% of current renters make below $20,000 per year and cannot afford their housing costs.

This stat is repeated over and over in the “research” which is driving this discussion. Making below $20,000 per year is less than minimum wage.

These people want a nicer revitalized neighborhood, but don’t want to pay anything extra for it? They’re demanding a property tax freeze because they rent in the area?

This is the epitome of entitlement.
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  #1022  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 1:30 PM
Halsted & Villagio Halsted & Villagio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1 View Post
A few single family homes have sold or been on the market for at least $600,000 in the area though.
Indeed my friend. My partners and I were a part of one of those sales.

As for the Woodlawn Organization, I would not pay too much attention to them. They are a shell of their former selves now that their founder in facing down the barrel of a long prison stint.

There is always a hot take to be had on the Obama Library... it drives news, rankles some and inspires others... but truly, there is nothing to see here folks.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2019, 5:13 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stockerzzz View Post
^ Their main argument is that 42% of current renters make below $20,000 per year and cannot afford their housing costs.

This stat is repeated over and over in the “research” which is driving this discussion. Making below $20,000 per year is less than minimum wage.

These people want a nicer revitalized neighborhood, but don’t want to pay anything extra for it? They’re demanding a property tax freeze because they rent in the area?

This is the epitome of entitlement.
Here's some trends and data:

2010, Households Making Under $25K
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 60.6%
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 49.3%

2010, Households Making $50K+
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 11%
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 27%


2017, Households Making Under $25K
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 58%
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 42.1%

2017, Households Making $50K+
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 23.9% (up from 11%)
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 38.1% (up from 27%)

2010, Households Making $100K+
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 5%
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 11.2%


2017, Households Making $100K+
Tract 4201 (next to the park): 8%
Tract 4202 (directly west of 4201): 11.2% (unchanged)
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  #1024  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 7:40 PM
Donnie77 Donnie77 is online now
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  #1025  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2019, 11:41 PM
Sohcatoah Sohcatoah is offline
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Is this building considered Brutalist? The windows and renderings make it seems relatively inviting, but the stone elements of it make me think Brutalism.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 2:53 AM
gandalf612 gandalf612 is offline
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Originally Posted by Sohcatoah View Post
Is this building considered Brutalist? The windows and renderings make it seems relatively inviting, but the stone elements of it make me think Brutalism.
Too many decorative elements to be Brutalist
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  #1027  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 2:29 PM
rlw777 rlw777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohcatoah View Post
Is this building considered Brutalist? The windows and renderings make it seems relatively inviting, but the stone elements of it make me think Brutalism.
It's definitely reminiscent of Corbusier with those odd window cutouts but when I think Brutalism I think concrete. The stone is actually what makes me think it's not Brutalist.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 4:57 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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Yikes, whatever it is it looks pretty ugly to me! It seem brutalist with a bunch of weird windows and junk on it. Why can't they just make a nice traditional building to match the University architecture? Or something to match the World's Fair like the Museum of Science and Industry nearby? Why does it have to look like some alien dead bug.
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  #1029  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 5:23 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Baronvonellis View Post
Why can't they just make a nice traditional building to match the University architecture?
which part?

this?


this?


this?


this?


this?


this?


this?


this?


seeing as the Williams/Tsien have already designed one award winning U of C building, it would seem theyre matching it pretty well
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  #1030  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 6:35 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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The first one. The original university architecture. I went to a orchestra concert at Mandel Hall Saturday, and it was magnificent and inspiring architecture. I don't like the logan building much either, it doesn't inspire me and is cold and brutal, but it's a bit better than the Obama library.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 7:54 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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trying to pretend to be some 1800s Gothic building in 2019 is missing the point entirely.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2019, 10:03 PM
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Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
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Then I guess it was in 1924, also. After all, structural steel and reinforced concrete were readily available.
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  #1033  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 3:55 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is online now
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
Then I guess it was in 1924, also. After all, structural steel and reinforced concrete were readily available.
Totally disingenuous as always...

It's not about availability of modern technology (though that's a valid theoretical criticism of basically anything post Sullivan with a throwback style), it's about the complete and utter unavailability of old world craftsmanship post WWIi.

You don't get to build "yee olde gothice cathedrale schoole" in 2019 because there is no chance of it being built to any kind of construction quality that would do the style justice. Any attempt to do it with precast would end up looking like you dropped a river north condo tower in the middle of Jackson Park...
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  #1034  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 1:25 PM
Ned.B Ned.B is offline
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^Old world craftsmanship is still available, otherwise we would never be able to repair these buildings, but it is definitely less prevalent and much more expensive today. Computer scanning and fabrication may be able to increasingly replace craftsman in areas such as stone carving to make it more feasible in the future.

But I think in this case it is less about being truthful to the age, or the ability to remake historic buildings well, as it is making an architecture that tells an appropriate story. As Mr. Downtown points out the Gothic Revival buildings of the University of Chicago Campus are already historic reproductions of a style that originates in the 11th-14th centuries. It was done because Gothic was strongly associated with academic learning and university structures from the much older institutions in Europe.

The Obama Center is not being constructed in Gothic Revival because the style wouldn't impart the message that our former president wants to convey, nor would it have any relevance to his presidency. One could argue whether the current building has the right tone, shape, etc, etc, but a building an a Classical or other historical style isn't going to do the job. It's similar to how a Classical building on the Mall in Washington DC was not going to be able to effectively tell the story of African American or American Indian history.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 1:36 PM
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rgarri4 rgarri4 is offline
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Building a building in 2019 that looks like it was built in 2019 makes the most sense. When I think of Obama I dont think of 1920s gothic revival. Even the American 1920s gothic style was just a rip off of European styles.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 1:39 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is online now
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Originally Posted by Ned.B View Post
^Old world craftsmanship is still available, otherwise we would never be able to repair these buildings, but it is definitely less prevalent and much more expensive today. Computer scanning and fabrication may be able to increasingly replace craftsman in areas such as stone carving to make it more feasible in the future.
OK, so you are basically saying it's not widely availible which is literally exactly what I just said. You can't build stuff like that anymore because there simply are not tens of thousands of skilled old world craftsman immigrating to the US anymore. That makes it cost prohibitive because the supply of that kind of labor is low. Low supply = high price. We are saying the same thing.

Quote:
The Obama Center is not being constructed in Gothic Revival because the style wouldn't impart the message that our former president wants to convey, nor would it have any relevance to his presidency. One could argue whether the current building has the right tone, shape, etc, etc, but a building an a Classical or other historical style isn't going to do the job. It's similar to how a Classical building on the Mall in Washington DC was not going to be able to effectively tell the story of African American or American Indian history.
This is a great point. It's no coincidence our first black president was named Barack Obama and not "Johnny Washington". Obama doesn't come from a historically oppressed African American heritage, but even he dropped the anglocized "Barry" nickname as he became more aware of his politics.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:12 PM
Ned.B Ned.B is offline
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
OK, so you are basically saying it's not widely availible which is literally exactly what I just said. You can't build stuff like that anymore because there simply are not tens of thousands of skilled old world craftsman immigrating to the US anymore. That makes it cost prohibitive because the supply of that kind of labor is low. Low supply = high price. We are saying the same thing.
I don't think we are quite saying the same thing. I'm arguing that it is absolutely possibly to design and build in a historic style, but it takes the right architect, and some healthy funds, and the modern versions may not have the same level of intricate carving...at least in stone...as the originals. Examples include the Murray and Franklin Colleges in Yale (RAMSA), Anheiser Busch Hall at Washington U (Hartman-Cox) or the Tuscaloosa Courthouse (HBRA). But in either event it's not really appropriate here.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:47 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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of course its possible, anything is with the will and budget. but just saying "it should match the surrounding campus" does miss the point. look at the new African American museum in DC, and the way it too departs from its neoclassical surroundings, and how its design was influenced. look at the kind of art and music obama was into. his friendship with Theaster Gates. look at who obama commissioned to paint his/michelle's portraits at the Smithsonian. he represents the new thinking about AA history, their contributions to American society, and what it means to be Black moving forward. it should come as zero surprise his building would brake from a traditional mold. once you start peeling back the layers, you can start to make sense of where the inspirations for this building are coming from. look at the modernist architecture in major African cities and you'll start to quickly begin seeing similarities. he is a person who is VERY conscious of symbolism, and what things represent. selecting a gothic or neo-classical building would symbolize the Old, Stodgy, White, European-Influenced, Conservative, Cloistered worldview, even if he was a part of it and came out of that to some degree, thats certainly not what hes going to choose to represent his legacy.

that Obama would choose something like this, and the Bushes would choose something like this, says everything that is/was different about their ways of thinking




Last edited by Steely Dan; Oct 30, 2019 at 6:38 PM.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:51 PM
Baronvonellis Baronvonellis is offline
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There's a thread here about new buildings built in traditional styles.
Here's a new gothic cathedral being built in the US today.

http://www.mccreryarchitects.com/por...el-of-america/

It can be done if someone wants to do it.

Otherwise, what does this building say about 2019 today? It seems ugly and oppressive. It seems to me that it says we are ants in an ant colony. How about some beauty in the building instead?
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  #1040  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2019, 2:53 PM
Chi-Sky21 Chi-Sky21 is offline
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Wyoming? Did not see that one coming...
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