DENVER | Transportation Thread - Page 286

EngiNerd · #**5701** Posted **Sep 11, 2013, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

I'd like to summarize - that area is a complete mess...unless it's meant to be a shipping and warehouse area only...if so, then why on earth pay for another cap?

This is exactly what I mean by my earlier comment. I am not opposed to these cut and cover lids as a means of adding land where none exists now for redevelopment where it makes sense. But this just seems like an area that is not now, and likely will not be for the foreseeable future an area that will see a lot of redevelopment. The housing stock is pretty shoddy, and the area is primarily industrial...not turn of the century LODO industrial, but active industrial with 1-2 story steel buildings not worth ever saving for reuse if that time comes.

They were giving the neighborhood much already by adding the lid and giving them the park which is great...but now they want to (greatly) expand this scope. Honestly CDOT and the city didn't even need to give the neighborhood, and they did, but now that is not enough and they want more. How much is too much to spend to try and "reconnect" some of these neighborhoods, especially in areas such as this? And why is this particular neighborhood special in that regards that we need to spends hundreds of millions to try and reconnect it?

jimluk · #**5702** Posted **Sep 11, 2013, 11:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

And if so, what? What are we going to do with all of that space, apart from cultivate weeds?

I think you meant cultivate Weed, there fixed it for you.

PLANSIT · #**5703** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 12:20 AM**

With or without the development, the 2nd cap will be an amenity and I think it's worth the cash. But Bunt's right (for the most part). That area isn't like Columbus or any other real world example of a development cap. It's hard to believe (at least in the nearer term) that any kind of useful development (retail, etc.) would go in there. Developers are not clamoring to get into that neighborhood. Maybe one day. So having it "Development Grade" may be ok. I don't know.

There's a fine line in reinvigorating a neighborhood for those that currently live there and those that planner types want to live there. It's a delicate balance of improving the lives of the current residents without gentrifying the neighborhood. I don't believe the goal is to gentrify (a little will happen given a long enough time frame). I believe the goal is to improve the neighborhood and retain the current culture and character. I think it's very doable. And I think both caps are one small step in that direction.

LAM · #**5704** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 3:53 AM**

It seems to me that most of the benefit of capping in that area would be for the south of the highway neighborhood to either side of Steele. But, north of Steele is a large warehouse type facility. In general I agree though, that there doesn't appear to be much value to it.

My earlier thoughts on abandoning Vasquez were purely related to my belief that it is a redundant road that costs money to maintain for nothing. Our infrastructure costs too much to maintain, and I just think we need to find ways to reduce when and wherever possible. A neighborhood does not only include houses, but also places of business. The residents can walk to work and connect through there. It's only a issue, when the businesses are polluting the vicinity that it is a concern. In fact, if they abandoned Vasquez and replaced some of the grid, they would hardly need to affect any properties. It's kind of a no brainer to me - less road, less cost to maintain, better neighborhood connectivity, win-win.

See unedited map here: They could connect 50th and 52nd through for the east west, and Steele could follow Vasquez up to Cook for a new north-south. See, no one looses anything except a couple parking spaces.

Wizened Variations · #**5705** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 5:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I don't know that we actually need the coverage. It's just the absurdity of building a multi-million dollar awesome train shed, and still have folks standing out in the elements in the middle of it. It's laughable. The kind of thing that becomes a "Denver: Are You Kidding Me?" internet meme. First snow storm, I lay you odds, the absurdity of a train shed without a roof is all over the internet as an example of how government can't get anything right.

Not just the government, but the government and involved private moneyed interests. And I will be more specific: government and corporate partners in the US (don't want to insult very good planning between government agencies and businesses in other parts of the world.)

I might add, however, that compared to many US cities, Denver is doing rather well in this government/business approach. Then, again, we are talking about 21st Century US, here.

And, yes, I also agree that we will be hearing more of the "Denver: Are you kidding me?" over the next decade.

A fine crony run Cow Town that brews great beer.

Wizened Variations · #**5706** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 6:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

This is exactly what I mean by my earlier comment. I am not opposed to these cut and cover lids as a means of adding land where none exists now for redevelopment where it makes sense. But this just seems like an area that is not now, and likely will not be for the foreseeable future an area that will see a lot of redevelopment. The housing stock is pretty shoddy, and the area is primarily industrial...not turn of the century LODO industrial, but active industrial with 1-2 story steel buildings not worth ever saving for reuse if that time comes.

They were giving the neighborhood much already by adding the lid and giving them the park which is great...but now they want to (greatly) expand this scope. Honestly CDOT and the city didn't even need to give the neighborhood, and they did, but now that is not enough and they want more. How much is too much to spend to try and "reconnect" some of these neighborhoods, especially in areas such as this? And why is this particular neighborhood special in that regards that we need to spends hundreds of millions to try and reconnect it?

CDOT is trying to put out what it considers carrots to get the I-70 project rolling. The issue, IMO, is one of political appearance: how can CDOT appear to placate local interests at the same time increase I-70's capacity?

At the same time, this all might be a political maneuver to get the federal and state money by making the effort to appear "Green." Besides, for a block or two the auto created thunderous noise will be reduced..

LOL

bunt_q · #**5707** Posted **Sep 12, 2013, 11:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

(don't want to insult very good planning between government agencies and businesses in other parts of the world.)

I'd love to hear an example of this Shangri-La where the monied interests and government play well and do good works together.

wong21fr · #**5708** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 4:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I'd love to hear an example of this Shangri-La where the monied interests and government play well and do good works together.

South Korea and Japan come to mind. Both nations are the epitome of excellent government-business relations.

wong21fr · #**5709** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

There's a fine line in reinvigorating a neighborhood for those that currently live there and those that planner types want to live there. It's a delicate balance of improving the lives of the current residents without gentrifying the neighborhood. I don't believe the goal is to gentrify (a little will happen given a long enough time frame). I believe the goal is to improve the neighborhood and retain the current culture and character. I think it's very doable. And I think both caps are one small step in that direction.

Looking at the presentation given to the Denver City Council it's pretty obvious what is envisioned/being sold: a section of Wash Park plopped in the area with an organic grocery, coffee shops, yoga studios, salons, etc. with a Hispanic influence to appease the locals.

Check it out here:
http://www.denvergov.org/sirepub/cac...3104455422.PDF

Looks like some pretty major reworking of the transit infrastructure is envisioned by the City and that eliminating the Vasquez interchange is only the beginning. They really want to improve the E/W connections across the area and it looks as if 47th is in for some major improvements.

Screw Aerotropolis, which seems to have Hancock's support and that's about it, this is the money play. You're looking a billion dollar plus public plan to completely reshape this area with a NWSS campus at the center of it.

bcp · #**5710** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 5:45 PM**

the plan seems to be forbidden (for me at work)...but please please please let there be lots of density (over more than just a few blocks) or these stores will be a) auto oriented, b) fail or c) both.

wong21fr · #**5711** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 6:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcp

the plan seems to be forbidden (for me at work)...but please please please let there be lots of density (over more than just a few blocks) or these stores will be a) auto oriented, b) fail or c) both.

Think single-story buildings like what you find along Pearl Street in Platte Park or South Gaylord Street in Wash Park. The City somehow thinks it can import Wash Park into Elyria-Swansea.

Because I so want to live in a 1940's clapboard house.

bcp · #**5712** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 6:11 PM**

sigh....I did access the plan - funny that they show dallas and charlotte's highway caps - which are in areas with immediate access to dense commercial (and prob some res) development.......without density, this will be another dahlia square.

bunt_q · #**5713** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 6:32 PM**

Here, maybe this link will work: http://www.denvergov.org/sirepub/cac...3122821509.PDF

Whoever made that powerpoint is definitely former military. It screams Powerpoint Ranger. I especially like the giant cow clip art to represent the stock show. Can we say tacky?

Cirrus · #**5714** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 8:23 PM**

Hold the phones guys.

VelociRFTA BRT is open.

Who knew? And more importantly, who is going to go out there and take pictures so I can see it?

Cirrus · #**5715** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 8:24 PM**

Seriously though if we get to Halloween and nobody has posted a thread, I'm banning all of you.

The Dirt · #**5716** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 8:51 PM**

Fast. Fun. Frequent. I'm glad they didn't forget the fun but, how exactly are they implementing it on a bus? Is the bus driver going to take the turns really fast? Is there going to be someone walking up and down the aisle high-fiving everyone?

RyanD · #**5717** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 9:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Seriously though if we get to Halloween and nobody has posted a thread, I'm banning all of you.

Well... If I'm not supposed to be using my car, how am I supposed to get there to ride the BRT?

bobg · #**5718** Posted **Sep 13, 2013, 11:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanD

Well... If I'm not supposed to be using my car, how am I supposed to get there to ride the BRT?

Amtrak station is blocks away. If the train tracks are now washed out Glenwood Springs has greyhound service as well (which is faster anyway but still doesn't make up for the fact that its Greyhound).

LAM · #**5719** Posted **Sep 14, 2013, 4:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Here, maybe this link will work: http://www.denvergov.org/sirepub/cac...3122821509.PDF

Whoever made that powerpoint is definitely former military. It screams Powerpoint Ranger. I especially like the giant cow clip art to represent the stock show. Can we say tacky?

Anyone have a different link to the presentation? Seems to keep getting an error from my home network.

Nevermind! I found them here! http://www.denvergov.org/DenverCounc...r/Default.aspx

Interzen · #**5720** Posted **Sep 14, 2013, 4:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobg

Amtrak station is blocks away. If the train tracks are now washed out Glenwood Springs has greyhound service as well (which is faster anyway but still doesn't make up for the fact that its Greyhound).

I just drove through Glenwood Springs about 5 hours ago and the tracks are still there and fully operational. Actually there was little rain west of the divide.

I also got stuck briefly behind a VelociRFTA bus trying to merge into traffic. I left the driver room and waited, and waited and waited some more motioning them to pull out. They finally merged into traffic in front of me. I guess it makes sense now. The drivers are likely still figuring the route out if it just started service.

If I knew it was new I would have snapped a pic. I did comment to my passengers about the funny name.