So today's the day.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Well I think the reason left wing and right wing are dead is simple.

Rightwings we need to tightnet our belts and increase efficiency,

Liberals we need to increase services to the poor and not worry about efficiency.

Why does the idea of increasing the number effcient government services confuse everyone.

The reality is this is exactly what the progress of history has been, the government increasingly becoming more and more a part of our lives while we increasingly overall efficiency.

I never said there were no worries about efficiency on the left, just that the Tories seem to not care about the bottom and make a Middle Class vs. Poor wedge to try to gain support. They're happy to add government bureaucracy elsewhere, but decreasing the money going to the bottom is on their priority list no matter how the economy is doing. So I'm much more worried about the next election that the stock markets.

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Rampant communism is a breeding ground for corruption and tyranny. It is a slave mentality to willingly give up all ones freedoms for the benevolence of a master and overlord (communist leaders and their cronies). If you think capitalism is bad, try living in a society with few democratic checks where party leaders can get your pretty sister abducted for recreational purposes or seize your property for the good of the collective (profits for their construction bureaucrat cronies).

Capitalism has enough examples of people exploiting systems, one can imagine how extreme the nepotism and atrocities that occur in a system with few checks on power. With time corruption actually gets worse as humans are built to push boundaries as they get away with more and more abuses of the system.

As with most things, balance is the key.

What your contrasting is democracy versus autocracy.

Has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.


Ironically the most guilty of the anti democratic actions in the west are always the right wing parties. Harper being a prime example of a person who has contempt for democracy.

The fact that capitalism is associated with democracy is completely an american folklore and has no basis in reality.

[240glt]

My stocks are taking a beating, but I'm watching the energy stocks which appear to be in a free fall, some good buying opportunities coming up soon I think

How much lower can Encana go I wonder ? Keeping an eye on that one.. If it doesn't get sold in the meantime..

[Stryker]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I never said there were no worries about efficiency on the left, just that the Tories seem to not care about the bottom and make a Middle Class vs. Poor wedge to try to gain support. They're happy to add government bureaucracy elsewhere, but decreasing the money going to the bottom is on their priority list no matter how the economy is doing. So I'm much more worried about the next election that the stock markets.

***takes off liberal hat*****'

That's because sending money to the bottom doesn't make sense.

As much as I can't stand harper he did help the lower middle class.

Problem is he did by building a house of cards for them to stand on that is now in flames.


The idea that liberals are about helping the poor is a total joke.

You can't remove the bottom end of the bell curve the poor are eternal it's such a false promise of modern politics.

What you have to look at is structural issues. The harder you work to rid poverty the more you create it in my opinion.

[SteelTown]

Blah, and I bought this stock a few days ago lol. Wish I bought it today's low. Oh well I don't intend to touch this stock for a very long time.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Stryker

What your contrasting is democracy versus autocracy.

Has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.


Ironically the most guilty of the anti democratic actions in the west are always the right wing parties. Harper being a prime example of a person who has contempt for democracy.

The fact that capitalism is associated with democracy is completely an american folklore and has no basis in reality.

Stryker,

I was referring to the USSR example you alluded to before. It was a failure because extreme socialist economies can only exist in a non-democratic environment. True command economies require a state structure that is not only powerful but has disproportionate instruments of "command" to achieve its economic and social objectives, in other words goons (police, army, empowered bureaucracy).

If people try to vote out a regime as people tend to do from time to time in democracies, that regime will do anything to maintain their authority and power. The more power ("command" control), the less likely a regime change and more likely a suppression of democracy is likely to occur. Even the sweetest of people will turn into power hungry autocrats if you give them unnatural power, it's human nature. This why so many fight attempts to create more state control in democratic capitalist societies. While I agree that stronger social programs for those at the very bottom are a must, greater control of anything more is a recipe for disaster.

Once again, balance is key.

[MolsonExport]

I refuse to check the status of my financial portfolio. What can I do about it? I don't need to feel shitty about something that is for now out of my control.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I refuse to check the status of my financial portfolio. What can I do about it? I don't need to feel shitty about something that is for now out of my control.

Just wait things out and they'll got back up eventually! You're about my age I think so retirement is still many years away!

[1overcosc]

I sold off most of my portfolio two weeks ago to get a down payment on my first house.

Good timing, I guess. And now is the time to buy again.

[mistercorporate]

Never got into stocks myself, it's not a rational market that can be accurately predicted using public information and tools, always felt more comfortable with real estate and FX. Currently get paid in USD so I'm unaffected right now but if the US economy tanks or my target currencies crash I may have to adjust my holdings (a pain in the ass).

[kwoldtimer]

For the moment both Toronto and New York seem to have calmed down.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Stryker

***takes off liberal hat*****'

That's because sending money to the bottom doesn't make sense.

As much as I can't stand harper he did help the lower middle class.

Problem is he did by building a house of cards for them to stand on that is now in flames.


The idea that liberals are about helping the poor is a total joke.

You can't remove the bottom end of the bell curve the poor are eternal it's such a false promise of modern politics.

What you have to look at is structural issues. The harder you work to rid poverty the more you create it in my opinion.

You can't get rid of it, but you can make it less horrible. Providing better welfare and cheaper education is good for the nation as a whole. You can't guarantee the next Einstein or Tesla is going to be born to an upper or even middle class family.

We can obviously do something to help those at the bottom, being poor in Canada is much better than being poor in the US for instance. We can also decrease income inequality, Gini Coefficients do change.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Berklon

It's ok... Canadians can continue to sell each other houses and shop and Tim Hortons. Outside of oil, that's our true economy anyway.

Of course that's the $20k question, how will this affect the housing market? There's precious little to underpin the outrageously high prices in Vancouver and Toronto, other than the inflow of Chinese money. If China's economy tanks, is the last prop kicked out from the housing market? Or will Chinese money be even more on the hunt for a safe place to park?

[eternallyme]

The Dow Jones has recovered nearly 90% of their losses. The TSX has recovered about 80% of the losses. Also the Canadian Dollar has mostly recovered its losses (how is it doing against other currencies?)

It seems North America isn't being hit nearly as hard in the end, the initial selloff was likely due to panic attacks.

[SkydivePilot]

If you guys have the time, watch Countdown to Looking Glass. It is a made-for-TV movie/docudrama released in 1984. Canadian journalist, Patrick Watson, plays the news anchor. It is a strong parallel to what's happening worldwide now and is a good watch.

Countdown to Looking Glass can be found on YouTube.

[eternallyme]

I looked at the currency markets, the CAD is down slightly against the USD, but is getting killed against the EUR, GBP and JPY. That suggests that the USD is also having a bad day, and we would be collapsing if not for that.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I looked at the currency markets, the CAD is down slightly against the USD, but is getting killed against the EUR, GBP and JPY. That suggests that the USD is also having a bad day, and we would be collapsing if not for that.

That's interesting, I half expected Japan to lose vs the US. Perhaps it's Chinese investors selling US dollar assets?

[Surrealplaces]

The two are things are different, but are related. After all, if you look at past or present communist regimes, they are not really democratic. One of the downfalls of communism is that the governing power needs to have control over the people to make it work.

Harper, and other western governments have their downfalls, but those downfalls pale compared to China or the previous Eastern Bloc governments.

Originally Posted by Stryker

What your contrasting is democracy versus autocracy.

Has nothing to do with capitalism or communism.


Ironically the most guilty of the anti democratic actions in the west are always the right wing parties. Harper being a prime example of a person who has contempt for democracy.

The fact that capitalism is associated with democracy is completely an american folklore and has no basis in reality.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

That's interesting, I half expected Japan to lose vs the US. Perhaps it's Chinese investors selling US dollar assets?

Another factor might be the Fed, and most investors believe that an interest rate hike will not occur - if anything, the Fed may lower rates themselves (which would hurt the USD).

[eternallyme]

The worst losses is CAD vs JPY...the Canadian dollar is down over 3% against the yen today (would be the equivalent of dropping about 2.5 cents against the USD, which would surely get all of our attention!).