Richmond, B.C., considers banning Chinese-only signage

[theman23]

Rousseau may be downplaying some of the issues facing racial minorities in Canada, but his overall message is on point. On the balance, race relations in Canada are better. Not perfect, and that's not say that other places have different ethnic groups at each other's throats. But things are better here.

Not to say that anything in your post is wrong, Saffron- the US is certainly a place of greater opportunity and a far more attractive destination for that reason and others. But even though my none of my relatives from the states would ever leave their lives in the US, they all admire the diversity and relative racial harmony in Canada.

Acajack's comparison of Jane Finch to the Paris suburbs is predictably laughable. Hahaha. See?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by st7860

In the U.S. Some salaries are higher however for individuals or families that do things other than going home straight after work every day then Canada is better

Right, it's common knowledge that there's nothing fun to do in places like New York City and London (UK, not Ontario). You can work, but that's it. Don't look for anything to do in your free time, there's just nothing. At all.

In fact, the only reason the ~30 million people who live in these two metro areas haven't yet all committed suicide is that they're still clinging to the hope that someday they might manage to relocate to Vancouver. That hope is what makes their lives worth continuing.

[st7860]

There you said said it. Nice and simple.

Not everyone is into live theater.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by st7860

There you said said it. Nice and simple.

Previous time I agreed with you though (in this very thread), someone complained about my sarcasm being too subtle, so I must say I toyed with the idea of fixing it this time... but ultimately decided against it; no Sheldon Cooper-style "sarcasm" sign this time either.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by theman23

Acajack's comparison of Jane Finch to the Paris suburbs is predictably laughable. Hahaha. See?

It would be instructive to know the violent death rate of young North African males in Greater Paris and compare it to the violent death rate for young black males in Toronto.

[memememe76]

Originally Posted by someone123

The meaningfulness of this statistic depends a lot on what they consider English signage for a business. There are many businesses that will have one or two words in English or a transliterated proper name and then much more detailed signs that are not in English and have a lot more information on them. They are clearly not primarily geared toward English shoppers; it's hard to tell what these businesses even are a lot of the time.

That being said, I agree that this isn't much of a real issue, or at least it doesn't seem to justify meddling.

Most English-only signs have very few words. Starbucks. Tim Hortons. Safeway. Wal-Mart. Dollarama.

[GlassCity]

Richmond homeowners claim non-Mandarin speakers excluded from strata council

Allegations of discrimination are pitting neighbour against neighbour at a Richmond condominium complex.

A group of homeowners has filed a human rights complaint alleging they’re being treated unfairly because they don’t speak Mandarin.

Andreas Kargut and his wife have been living at Wellington Court since it was built in 2004. He served on council until last year.

“All of us except for one got ousted,” he said of non-Mandarin speaking council members.

Harry Gray also served on strata. He was voted out at the same time. He describes the vote as a “successful, deliberate attempt” to oust non-Mandarin speakers from council.

Seventy per cent of Wellington Court residents speak Mandarin. Earlier this month, they received an email from the new council:

“Please understand that council team for this fiscal is using Mandarin as the preferred language for communication. We have no intention of using English during the meeting on December the 8th. That’s the most efficient way for the team this year.”

Read more:http://globalnews.ca/news/2417019/ri...trata-council/

I hate to use the slippery slope fallacy, but the reason that Chinese only signs worried me so much is because I was afraid it would lead to even more. Hopefully this sort of story makes this issue seem less silly and the idea of being nudged out of your own city more real.

[Hali87]

I think this constitutes a more distinct failure to accommodate the right to participate in such things in an official language (if condo corps have to comply with this - charter stuff actually often only applies to official government business). This might be crossing a line, legally, and focuses the "language debate" a bit more than the signs did.

[Spliff]

I lived in China for 10 years and during my time there met many wealthy Chinese who had Canadian citizenship. These people owned and operated factories, that would not even come close to complying with Canadian labour and environmental regulations. They probably didn't meet Chinese regulations either but everything was smoothed over with a little guanxi. Basically, there people polluted the sh*t out of their own country, and treated the people that worked for them horribly, and then took their millions and moved to Vancouver.

I find it ironic that people from BC can sh*t on Alberta and the Oilsands, while they sell dirty coal to China that goes up unregulated smokestacks and obliterates a country and its people. Vancouver has also sold its soul to Chinese money. Actually Vancouver is already a lot like China, its shiny and looks great, but its not as great as it looks. I lived a decade in China and since I left, there hasn't been one second that I have missed that awful place.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Spliff

I lived in China for 10 years and during my time there met many wealthy Chinese who had Canadian citizenship. These people owned and operated factories, that would not even come close to complying with Canadian labour and environmental regulations. They probably didn't meet Chinese regulations either but everything was smoothed over with a little guanxi. Basically, there people polluted the sh*t out of their own country, and treated the people that worked for them horribly, and then took their millions and moved to Vancouver.

I find it ironic that people from BC can sh*t on Alberta and the Oilsands, while they sell dirty coal to China that goes up unregulated smokestacks and obliterates a country and its people. Vancouver has also sold its soul to Chinese money. Actually Vancouver is already a lot like China, its shiny and looks great, but its not as great as it looks. I lived a decade in China and since I left, there hasn't been one second that I have missed that awful place.

And....someone derails the thread. It is these type of posts that get the PC crowd up in arms, and then any chance for a meaningful conversation is lost when the two extremes of the spectrum decide to flex their muscles...

[Hali87]

it's a scenario I'd never thought of in such terms, but doubtlessly happens.

Most of the world doesn't have our labour or environmental standards.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Richmond homeowners claim non-Mandarin speakers excluded from strata council

Read more:http://globalnews.ca/news/2417019/ri...trata-council/

I hate to use the slippery slope fallacy, but the reason that Chinese only signs worried me so much is because I was afraid it would lead to even more. Hopefully this sort of story makes this issue seem less silly and the idea of being nudged out of your own city more real.

Wow. This has ''Failure of Multiculturalism Cause Célèbre" written all over it.

[Metro-One]

I a sure a PC Principal will try to defend this, but this is troubling and is quite disgusting and really adds an unneeded strain between the Chinese and non-Chinese community (even between the Cantonese and Mandarin community).

The official languages are English and French. Strata meetings should be accessible for ALL people of the community.

Welcome to Canada, learn one of the official languages (or both!).

There is nothing wrong with retaining your own language and culture, but as a nation we do need unifying basics (such a language) that all people should at least attempt to learn.

No development / building should be completely tailored to one single ethnicity. This goes completely against progressive multiculturalism, and will only divide communities more.

As the article suggests, an interpreter should be hired for those who can't understand English. I am sure one of the Mandarin speaking council members are perfectly capable of translating the meetings for non-English speaking Chinese members.

All I know is I have been living in Japan for 2 years, and working my ass off the speak Japanese. Finally getting there, I would hate to come to Japan just to speak English and essentially only be friends with other westerners.

I could not imagine living in a complex in Japan that is 70% English speakers, and then telling the Japanese members, sorry, all meetings are in English only from now one.

Talk about spitting on your new home country.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wow. This has ''Failure of Multiculturalism Cause Célèbre" written all over it.

From the media report, I would see this as a matter of poor manners (on the part of the condo board) more than anything else, but I can see that it would set off alarm bells among those always ready to jump. That they've reached the point that some residents do not trust the accuracy of the board's summary minutes points to a pretty unhealthy condo dynamic.

[miketoronto]

I know this has happened for decades, and it is nothing new for people of similar cultures to live in the same area.

But it does feel like Canadian cities are segregating even more based on ethnic lines, and this is leading more to the issues like you see in the condo in Richmond.

While we had ethnic enclaves while I was growing up, I found it was a lot more mixed, with people from all different countries living in the same neighborhoods to a higher degree.

But it seems like the last 20 years have seen a much more pronounced self segregation, where we have situations like you see in Richmond, with 70% of one building of one ethnic group. Even in my own neighborhood I am noticing this. What used to be a neighborhood of mixed cultures is turning rapidly into a neighborhood of only one or two main ethnic groups.

[MolsonExport]

^nothing new at all about that. Recall Chinatowns of the early 1900s? Little Italys? Little Portugals? Greektown in 1950s Toronto? When the Bronx was 50% Jewish? Harlem for most of the last century?

Birds of a feather flock together. Nothing strange at all about it. When a new area is developed, it will often attract a mixture of people, but over will often coalesce around one or a few ethnic/religious or whatnot groups.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Spliff

I lived in China for 10 years and during my time there met many wealthy Chinese who had Canadian citizenship. These people owned and operated factories, that would not even come close to complying with Canadian labour and environmental regulations. They probably didn't meet Chinese regulations either but everything was smoothed over with a little guanxi. Basically, there people polluted the sh*t out of their own country, and treated the people that worked for them horribly, and then took their millions and moved to Vancouver.

I find it ironic that people from BC can sh*t on Alberta and the Oilsands, while they sell dirty coal to China that goes up unregulated smokestacks and obliterates a country and its people. Vancouver has also sold its soul to Chinese money. Actually Vancouver is already a lot like China, its shiny and looks great, but its not as great as it looks. I lived a decade in China and since I left, there hasn't been one second that I have missed that awful place.

jesus do you need to pollute every thread with your stereotypical angry man spiel?

Most people that live abroad for a spell have an expanded worldview. Most people, that is. Evidently yours became constricted.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

From the media report, I would see this as a matter of poor manners (on the part of the condo board) more than anything else, but I can see that it would set off alarm bells among those always ready to jump. That they've reached the point that some residents do not trust the accuracy of the board's summary minutes points to a pretty unhealthy condo dynamic.

As you know, I am not one of those "always ready to jump". But I am always observing and taking notes!

It would seem to me that there is a bit more at play than simply bad manners.

Somehow I don't see Québécois who are 70% of the residents in a seniors' compound in Pompano Beach, Florida telling their American co-owners that all meetings henceforth will be in French only.

There does seem to be a slight problem in our messaging about what Canada is all about or at least in the perception that some people have about what Canada is.

(And I don't for a minute believe that Québécois snowbirds in Florida necessarily have better manners than Mandarin speakers in Richmond, BC. I'm not playing that game.)

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As you know, I am not one of those "always ready to jump". But I am always observing and taking notes!

It would seem to me that there is a bit more at play than simply bad manners.

Somehow I don't see Québécois who are 70% of the residents in a seniors' compound in Pompano Beach, Florida telling their American co-owners that all meetings henceforth will be in French only.

There does seem to be a slight problem in our messaging about what Canada is all about or at least in the perception that some people have about what Canada is.

(And I don't for a minute believe that Québécois snowbirds in Florida necessarily have better manners than Mandarin speakers in Richmond, BC. I'm not playing that game.)

Agreed. It would be terribly rude. Whether it should be illegal or not, I don't know. I the case of the Richomond media report, I find it odd that owners would want to attend routine meetings of the condo board. The gathering of multiple proxies to ensure a condo board "ticket" strikes me as over the line. However, I have trouble making more of it that (yet another) case of "condo owner wars".

[mistercorporate]

WTF, I thought we had 2 official languages?? How is this acceptable or legal? A publicly regulated condo board is different from a private cultural association, these people need to shut the f%$k up and learn to speak the language or get kicked out of that board.
I feel sorry for my friends who I grew up with down there that are as Canadian as can be but have Chinese origins (some of whom don't even speak Chinese) since they're going to feel left out by both the Chinese expat mainstream over there and the local diverse majority. Regardless, a firm stand needs to be taken wherever exclusionary behaviour like this is occuring, language is a federal issue, there should be minimum national standards for official language use in the public realm.