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  #201  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2015, 2:32 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
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Couldn't they have slapped on some fiberglass body work to make it look modern? I'm sure that under the skin, a lot of modern looking rolling stock is built in the same utilitarian way.

Wellington NZ's new EMU's are pretty barebones too, they look very similar.
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  #202  
Old Posted Feb 1, 2015, 8:18 PM
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Forcing people to Wear shoes that don't fit.

FasTracks shapes Denver

Supporters and critics weigh in on value, ridership of public transportation

By Monte Whaley The Denver Post

Ten years after work began on the massive FasTracks metro-wide mass transit project, officials insist Denver and its suburbs are being molded into a 21st century model for moving people from their homes to jobs and places in between.

But along the way, FasTracks has picked up its share of critics. There have been cost overruns past the $4.7 billion of debt voters approved for FasTracks in November 2004, lower ridership numbers than predicted and the implosion of the planned Northwest Rail Line to Boulder, say detractors.

The northwest line was severed in 2012, at least temporarily, when costs climbed past planned revenue. That prompted howls of protests along the U.S. 36 corridor as the promised light-rail train was replaced with a bus system.

“Some of the residents up here are still mad about that and will bite your head off if you mention it to them,” Boulder Mayor Matt Appelbaum said. “I’m happy to celebrate the accomplishments of FasTracks. I think it will add enormously to the metro area, but it came at a cost. And much of that came from our corridor.”

The first components of the Fas-Tracks plan — which calls for 122 miles of new light rail and commuter rail to connect the metro area — started to be pieced together two years ago, when the 12.1-mile West Rail Line from Denver to Golden opened to riders.

A year later, a renovated Denver Union Station opened and the Free MetroRide in downtown Denver was launched.

Meanwhile, about 18 miles of bus rapid transit — BRT — is also being added from Denver to Boulder.

But that is just a springboard for six other FasTracks projects. Five of which — including rail to Denver International Airport — will open next year. The North Metro Rail line from Union Station through Adams County opens in 2018.

“It’s all about connecting people all over the area, to getting them where they need to go,” said Lorraine Anderson, a Regional Transportation District board member who fought early and hard for the Fas-Tracks idea. “Because of FasTracks, someday you will get connected to just about any place you want to go.”

Along the way, FasTracks has injected more than $5 billion into the metro economy and created 13,000 full-time jobs, say RTD officials. Fas-Tracks also is spawning transit-oriented development along its rail lines, including apartments, shopping centers and business parks.

“FasTracks is already benefitting the region, and those benefits will multiply as we continue to fulfill our promise to complete FasTracks,” said Chuck Sisk, a former mayor of Louisville and now chair of the RTD board of directors. “But it really starts and ends with the citizens and their vote of confidence in 2004.”

The failed Guide the Ride vote in 1997 prompted backers of a metro-wide transit system to redouble their efforts

“It really got people working together like never before,” said Anderson, who was chairwoman of the Denver Regional Council of Government at the time of the Guide the Ride vote.

Support came from DRCOG, the Metro Mayors Caucus, then-Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper and, most importantly, from business groups who knew the value of unclogging Denver roads, Sisk said.

Also key was getting all local governments to back the idea.
“They adopted the approach that if one area got light rail, then other areas would get it as well,” Sisk said.

Voters in the eight counties that make up RTD passed the original 0.4 percent sales tax increase for Fas-Tracks, with 58 percent of the vote, and to this day FasTracks remains popular — even though its cost has gone up to $5.3 billion and may reach as high as $8 billion.

But a 2013 poll of 800 Denver-area residents found that while 85 percent said the 2004 vote was a good decision only 1 percent said they used RTD daily and 2 percent said they rode transit to work daily. About 71 percent said they never used RTD to commute to work, and 45 percent said they never used transit for other purposes.

Others point out that ridership is still lagging for FasTracks and RTD’s base bus system. An otherwise sparkling review of FasTracks for The Atlantic magazine points out that only about 6 percent of Denver residents use buses or light rail.

Randal O’Toole, of the Cato Institute and harsh critic of FasTracks, said the West Rail Line is a typical victim of RTD’s overly optimistic projections, noting a 30 percent ridership shortfall on the line Randal O'Toole is correct in his observations concerning what Fastracks will be when built out. He is absolutely wrong in condemning ALL metro level steel rail transit systems, that where properly designed, serve many millions of people worldwide.

“With double the construction costs and only two-thirds of the riders, the West Rail Line is clearly far less cost-effective at relieving congestion than originally claimed,” O’Toole said shortly after the West Line opened. The line does not have express service and does not provide direct Uptown access without a double transfer from Auraria West

But the West Rail Line, like others, will grow as people get more familiar with transit, said Pauletta Tonilas, RTD spokeswoman for FasTracks. Perhaps within 30 minutes total transit time from workplace downtown, i.e, West Line stations from Wadsworth, east

“It takes about two years for ridership to normalize,” Tonilas said. “Also, some bus service in the corridor that we initially reduced when the W Line opened was restored due to strong community interest.” This was done to somewhat ameliorate the anger that commuters on the old Airport bus from Cold Springs had when they realized the new line was 15 to 20 minutes slower than the trip to the old Market Street Station via bus. The old Colfax bus that served Civic Center was also faster from Wadsworth to work places around Civic Station

To complete FasTracks, RTD has worked out public-private partnerships with companies to use their financial resources. RTD also got more than $1 billion of federal funding for projects. Almost completely to pay for infrastructure for commercial build out around the Union Station

“Without question, we’ve had our challenges. But by partnering with the public and private sectors, we’ve gotten creative and have most of Fas-Tracks either completed or in construction,” said RTD general manager Phil Washington. I do admire their persistence, but, in exchange RTD let the fox into the henhouse

Thornton resident ChaCha Cruz can’t wait for the final light rail connection that will allow her to hook up easily with family members who live in Highlands Ranch and Parker. The 75 to 90 minute total time will get old in a hurry

“I do see light rail and FasTracks connecting us better than we ever have before,” Cruz said. “Suddenly, going down south or to the airport, won’t be a problem.” The north side will have the best connections with the airport

Denver Post Saturday January 31, 2015

*****************************

I am reminded of when I bought my first used car. The car was riddled with mechanical problems that were caused in significant part from poor design. Of course, now I had a car that I had paid for, that was more important to me than how well the car ran at the time. Likewise, the car looked ‘good’, so I felt that, as a 21 year old, the car would help me get laid. The car was a piece of junk that I purchased because I knew nothing about what a good car was.

I bring this up because this article never once mentions poor downtown route design*, very high cost route lengthening for the DIA line from DIA to the UP track corridor**, poor downtown station ergonomics***, bad light rail vehicle access****, too long transit times*****, and, the lack of public input in most choices.******

In other words, how well the system WORKS, and, will work for the user!

Instead, the entire article is written from the standpoint of difficulties in getting public support, in how the system’s construction has benefited the community (any time you spend billions of dollars in public works there are obviously benefits, but, that has little or nothing to do with how the completed project works) and how ridership will grow.

Numerous examples of better downtown station integration exist worldwide. A few: the central JR (Japanese) stations at Nagoya, Kyoto, and Osaka where bus, high speed rail, commuter rail, and, subways are all with 200 meters of one another and 95% of all transfers are made from rail car level platform to platform transfer and the user of an escalator or two. China, using the Japanese station model on steroids, is building innumerable stations that tightly integrate rail transportation. On a lesser level, Melbourne, Australia’s, Melbourne Central Railway Station shows good design principals. Basically, go almost anywhere outside the US where multibillion dollar metro level transportation networks have been built over the last 20 years and examples of good new and expanded rail stations abound.

_______________________________________________________________________________
*The heart of any metro wide transportation system is the urban core station. In addition to being the focal point for urban core employment, downtown stations (should) provide VERY convenient and QUICK inter and intra modal transfers. Not having same seat travel options through downtown, not having platform to platform transfer between the light and commuter rail, not having (in the event that no same seat travel and platform to platform transfer options exists) a short walking distance between light rail and commuter rail terminals cripples user ‘friendliness’. The central failure of the RTD system lies in the downtown station complex, and, this failure will radically reduce spoke line utilization, killing the effectiveness of the entire system.

**Many extra miles were added to the DIA line connection between DiA terminal and the UP line that parallels I-70 so that the entire line- less a smidgeon- would remain in Denver. The costs of these extra miles ‘forced’ the use of one track segments as well as extremely expensive unnecessary overpass construction. In addition, the interface of the DIA line with DIA terminal is far more extravagant than necessary (costly). These extra costs were the result in part of subsidizing a portion of the DIA terminal extension and the terminal hotel.

***Sometime those that were involved in the property partition of downtown should be forced to walk from the light rail station to the new commuter station with a sprained ankle bad enough to require a cane. At the very least, the walk will take a lot of extra time. The entire downtown transportation complex is NOT very handicapped friendly.

****The projected time through Lodo is horrible, while the transportation times TO and FROM Lodo on the spokes are marginally acceptable. For example, while the marginally acceptable 35-40 minute transit time from DIA to Lodo compares favorably with the Kansai airport access time in Japan, the transit times when spoke travel on non-DIA lines included are not. The DIA line is a tool to develop Lodo and little more.

*****The steps required to board and exit light rail cars, despite the ramps available for the handicapped, women with infants, and, the elderly, is NOWHERE near as effective as level platform to rail car floor boarding. I personally know older people who HATE the light rail, and as most people know, the percentage of those over 65 will continue to rise.

******When too much planning is done behind closed doors, the effectiveness of public scrutiny is eliminated. Property players- particularly the very rich- have far too much input, and, control track routing specifically to maximize profits on property development, at the expense of transportation system efficiency. http://www.abandonedrails.com/Denver_Union_Station shows the worst example within the entire RTD rail system. There are others that have not been so crippling. (I cringe when thinking about what is going behind closed doors on the much touted Aeropolis at DIA)[/I]
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Last edited by Wizened Variations; Feb 1, 2015 at 8:29 PM.
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  #203  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2015, 5:00 PM
mr1138 mr1138 is offline
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The first powered test of the line was completed a few days ago.

Video courtesy of RTD. www.rtd-fastracks.com
Video Link
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  #204  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2015, 6:08 PM
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Please tell me it's not going to be blowing it's horn like that in revenue service. The bells are bad enough.
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  #205  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2015, 6:39 PM
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SEPTA's version does not have Bells...neither do most EMUs... The Horn rule in my opinion is outdated , where the only developed country that requires horns to be blown for every crossing... Most Countries its only needed for Pedestrian crossings and certain gate less crossings... Most Railroad Employees Ive spoken with do not enjoy blowing the horn...its just added noise pollution in their opinion.
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  #206  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 12:47 AM
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Cool Video and I think we do need horns and bells. How many idiots are stuck at grade crossings with earphones on & their I-Pods not paying attention? Sunrail in Orlando keeps hitting these idiots even with bells & whistles!
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  #207  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 2:37 AM
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I sure am glad DIA is getting a direct-connect rail line. I took the light-rail in Dallas to Love Field and got burned because I didn't take into account the 20 minute spacing of the station to airport shuttle. I missed my flight and had to sit around for 4 hours.
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  #208  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 3:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bobdreamz View Post
Cool Video and I think we do need horns and bells. How many idiots are stuck at grade crossings with earphones on & their I-Pods not paying attention? Sunrail in Orlando keeps hitting these idiots even with bells & whistles!
We need to get stricter with enforcing the traffic laws...if you have good ear buds you won't hear anything...
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  #209  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 3:25 AM
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As far as the design of the terminal itself goes, being that it's an electrically powered train, it's kind of unfortunate they didn't have the foresight to have the station in the bowels of the terminal instead of at the far end and outdoors subjecting users to rain, snow and frigid wind.
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  #210  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 3:28 AM
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We need to get stricter with enforcing the traffic laws...if you have good ear buds you won't hear anything...
Yeah, you may be right. They are very strict laws. They have to slow down and you can't be speeding. Followed the laws. They have obey the traffic laws.
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  #211  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 4:45 PM
mr1138 mr1138 is offline
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I'm not the resident expert on this project (many of the Denver skyscraperpage folks seem to forget these national threads even exist), so I can't say for sure what the status is on the horns and bells. There are no crossings of any sort, either pedestrian or roadway, in the vicinity of this platform, so I'm not sure what they would need to warn about. It may just be a test.

And while I agree it would get annoying to do that at every stop, this location at the south end of the airport terminal is so noisy anyway that I doubt the train horn is going to create any real noise pollution. In fact I sort of think the sound might add a layer of character to the the constant whir or airplanes, ground transportation, car horns, and that annoying PA system that every airport has.
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  #212  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
As far as the design of the terminal itself goes, being that it's an electrically powered train, it's kind of unfortunate they didn't have the foresight to have the station in the bowels of the terminal instead of at the far end and outdoors subjecting users to rain, snow and frigid wind.
This gives you a better idea of how passengers will access the terminal. It's not completely covered, but it's not awful either.

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  #213  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 5:39 PM
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^ A lot has been said both here and at Union Station as well about the lack of overhead coverings. You can count me as part of the camp that thinks Denver's weather makes this acceptable. If it is rainy and/or snowy (which is probably less than 5% of all days), and you are planning to walk and take transit, you are going to be dressed for the weather anyway because you will almost certainly be planning to walk along uncovered sidewalks as part of the trip. I do get though that some people feel these platforms should be designed for ALL conditions... but it appears that the decision makers didn't feel this way.

As to the location of this platform relative to the airline gates... I actually think arriving by train and following the pedestrian flow shown in the diagram posted by PLANSIT would theoretically get you to your gate faster than the traditional arrivals. I'm still not entirely clear if there will be a baggage check here however and how this complicates the process. It would slow things down if you had to go upstairs to the existing ticket counters to check a bag. Originally I had heard there could be a way to check baggage when you board the RTD train (early diagrams for Union Station showed a TSA baggage check counter at the station). If they could ever implement this option it would be really great!
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  #214  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2015, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by PLANSIT View Post
This gives you a better idea of how passengers will access the terminal. It's not completely covered, but it's not awful either.

Do you know if they ended up incorporating baggage and check-in facilities at the Public Transit Center as envisioned? Or will someone with baggage to check have to go all the way up to level 4?
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  #215  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2015, 5:27 AM
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Do you know if they ended up incorporating baggage and check-in facilities at the Public Transit Center as envisioned? Or will someone with baggage to check have to go all the way up to level 4?
Yes, they will be there. They will be at the Public Transit center. They will take the bags to ticket counter to drop the bags off. The bags will go through inline baggage screening system and they will take on the plane.
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  #216  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2015, 6:45 PM
CZ_in_CO CZ_in_CO is offline
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great day for test drive

They chose a great day for their test run. Nicely shows you how passengers in the rear will be exposed to the elements (which can be brutal in winter, especially at night or early morning). How dumb! And why so loud? Is this the 19th century with steam engines rumbling through stations? Really unnecessary. Still can't get over the look of this brand new train. Would have been fine maybe 25 years ago, but look at current airport-city trains all over the developed world, this is a complete joke in comparison.

What I really want to know is how long it's going to take me from an 8:30pm arrival at DIA to say Golden via this train and the West line - with a large bag and a carry-on. If it is any more than 90 minutes I am not going to be opting for this, sadly. Driving to Stapleton PnR will remain the better choice.
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  #217  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2015, 12:07 AM
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^ I've enjoyed these reads as I use to work at DIA but it seems as if Denver's Fastracks has fallen off this section...

Oh btw does anyone know when the trains start testing on the Gold Line and Northwest Rail line??

Scott
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  #218  
Old Posted May 1, 2016, 1:03 AM
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Now that the A-Line is open for revenue service and this station is fully operational, what does everyone think? I read last week that they hope to soon have a free service for checking in bags at Union Station before you board the train and then you don't see your bags again until you pick them up at your destination airport's baggage claim. That seems like a very convenient way to travel to the airport.
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  #219  
Old Posted May 1, 2016, 2:49 AM
CastleScott CastleScott is offline
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^ I thought something like this was suppost to be in the mix from the get-go...
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  #220  
Old Posted May 2, 2016, 4:42 PM
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^ I thought something like this was suppost to be in the mix from the get-go...
In the mix, but it didn't come to fruition as originally envisioned with the TSA running it. The bag check is currently at the DIA transit station and the company that runs it is looking at extending the service to Union Station in the future.

Oh, and train testing is underway on the G Line.
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