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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 6:26 PM
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the portland orange line should be awesome. its all grade separated except for a few small sections near downtown and it gets its own fancy bridge straight to ohsu. it should be a very ahem, gentile transit experience for most of its riders as the majority of it goes thru sellwood and eastmoreland, two of the nicest parts of the city. chai anyone?
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 6:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobg View Post
It's under Hampton Roads Transit
Oh, duh!

I searched for "Norfolk", "Tidewater", and "Virginia" and didn't find it. Forgot the other obvious one.

Thanks.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 8:36 PM
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the counts look as expected, except with the caveat that the staten island railway ridership is always significantly undercounted due to a quirk in the system that i wont elaborate on. something also interesting about that line, its losing a station (two stations are being combined into one brand new station).
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 9:08 PM
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I expect the Expo line extension to Santa Monica to add at least 30,000 daily riders, the Regional Connector Subway lightrail to add 20,000, the Crenshaw Line should add another 50,000 and the Gold Line Extension another 15,000 to 20,000... LA should be pushing 400,000 by 2019
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 9:18 PM
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^ You're reaching there. I'd expect those to add no more than 50,000 daily riders.

And speaking of the Regional Connector, it officially broke ground today after 2 years of pre-construction activity.
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 9:23 PM
CCs77 CCs77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
LA should shoot right up there.

San Diego will pass up Portland once Mid-Coast extension serving UCSD opens in a few years.

Not so sure, just next year (scheduled for sptember 12th 2015) Portland opens its brand new Portland Milwaukie line (Orange Line) with 11.7 km / 7.3 miles and 10 new stations (plus one more intermediate station in the future) with a expected ridership of about 20000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds70 View Post
Wow!!

They really screwed up Denver's light rail numbers in this report. The actual number is somewhere around 81,000 per weekday, not 58,000.

Just look at the 1st quarter 2014 report for comparison:

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf

Yeah, must be an error, when you see the total for the trimester there are for 6,464,400 for apr-jun 2014 vs 5,979,800 for apr-jun 2013 and 6,182,100 for jan-mar 2014


Quote:
Originally Posted by MSP View Post
Minneapolis should have a big jump on the next list. The green line which opened in June is already getting over 40,000 ridership per weekday.
It already did in this list, for june 2014 it had 1,381,400 vs 871,700 for june 2013 an increase of almost 59%
If indeed there are 40000 for the new line, it must jump at least to the 10th or 11th place, after or before Salt Lake (assuming that Denver is actually on the 8th place after Dallas), maybe even to the 9th place, ahead of St Louis.

Last edited by CCs77; Sep 30, 2014 at 9:38 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 9:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
^ You're reaching there. I'd expect those to add no more than 50,000 daily riders.
Actual ridership projection for each project:
  • Regional Connector: 17,000 (new)/83,000 - 89,000 (total)
  • Crenshaw Line: 16,000
  • Expo Line (Phases I & II): 64,000
  • Gold Line Foothills Extension Phase IIA: 9,500

Wasn't able to find a ridership projection specifically for Expo Phase II. Although if you were to discount the current 31,000+ figure for Phase I, that would but Phase II in similar territory.
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat23 View Post
Actual ridership projection for each project:
  • Regional Connector: 17,000 (new)/83,000 - 89,000 (total)
  • Crenshaw Line: 16,000
  • Expo Line (Phases I & II): 64,000
  • Gold Line Foothills Extension Phase IIA: 9,500

Wasn't able to find a ridership projection specifically for Expo Phase II. Although if you were to discount the current 31,000+ figure for Phase I, that would but Phase II in similar territory.
Thanks for that.. i was only off on Crenshaw, although i have a hard time believing that the line will only get 16,000, which would be the lowest of any LA rail line BY FAR. Even the orange line BRT is pushing 25 - 30 K
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCs77 View Post

It already did in this list, for june 2014 it had 1,381,400 vs 871,700 for june 2013 an increase of almost 59%
If indeed there are 40000 for the new line, it must jump at least to the 10th or 11th place, after or before Salt Lake (assuming that Denver is actually on the 8th place after Dallas), maybe even to the 9th place, ahead of St Louis.
The Green Line's ridership has consistently risen week to week since it opened. The 40,000 number was for the first week in September. If it can hold that level through the 4th quarter the Twin Cities should be in the 65k to 70k range by then depending on where the Blue Line is (it generally bounces around between 24k and 30k depending on the weather). The Twin Cities are probably in the 65k to 70k range right now, but not for the 3rd quarter as a whole because Green Line ridership was somewhat lower in July and August.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Thanks for that.. i was only off on Crenshaw, although i have a hard time believing that the line will only get 16,000, which would be the lowest of any LA rail line BY FAR. Even the orange line BRT is pushing 25 - 30 K
Probably a combination of the relatively short length (8.5 miles) and a conservative ridership forecast. The first phase is also a little bit light on residential density and employment centers, save for LAX. Traveling north towards Hollywood/Highland is a different story.

The Orange Line runs through similar terrain, but it travels almost 20 miles and benefits from a direct transfer to the heavy rail subway. The vast majority of people who disembark buses at North Hollywood walk across Lankershim Boulevard to the Red Line portal.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 2:02 AM
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I wonder how Dallas' numbers are going to jump, since they just connected DFW Airport to the orange line.
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texcolo View Post
I wonder how Dallas' numbers are going to jump, since they just connected DFW Airport to the orange line.
DART was only predicting another 1200 riders or so from DFW airport. Therefore, I don't expect to see a major increase in weekday riders. It'll be interesting to see what the data shows after 6 months or so.

Many comment that DART light rail riderships are relatively low considering the number of miles of trackage. Generalizing, 100,000 weekday riders takes approximately 50,000 cars off the freeways. At 2,000 cars per hour per lane, that's a potential of 25 lanes of traffic cleared for just one hour, 12 lanes of traffic cleared over two hours, 8 lanes of traffic cleared over three hours, and 6 lanes of traffic cleared over four hours. That's a significant decrease in traffic congestion.

Other cities are better suited for rail transit than Dallas. Take Seattle for an example, where a single north-south rail line can attract much more riders than any of DART's lines - based on geography. Seattle's Link light rail services will have three lines departing from downtown, north, south, and east. DART today has seven light rail lines departing from downtown; northwest (orange), north-northwest (green), north (red), northeast (blue), southeast (green), south (blue), and southwest (red). Dallas doesn't have the geographic hurdles that concentrate developments on a single axis. The only compass points not covered are west and east (or otherwise along I-30). I would like to point out that the suburbs along I-30 did not join DART - and why DART has no plans to date to run light rail lines in those directions. But I-30 is generally covered by Amtrak's Texas Eagle - a poor substitute relatively - but is there to provide a bare minimum of rail service. There are HOV lanes on I-30 which DART operates express bus services for commuters. Which is also true for almost every freeway and tollway into Dallas inner core.

Last edited by electricron; Oct 1, 2014 at 3:37 AM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 4:31 AM
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Light rail is a tiny fraction of U.S. transit ridership.

I don't get why almost no one on SSP seems to care about overall ridership (meaning bus ridership in most cities) as opposed to exclusively focusing on light rail, which is pretty much irrelevant to overall ridership trends.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 1:05 AM
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Notice: this is a list of the busiest U.S. bus agencies by ridership. The key here is to remember this is a list by agency--and not a list of riderhip on every agency that runs buses in any particular city or metropolitan area. Also, for simplicity's sake, I'm combining ridership on both motor buses and trolley buses. All figures from APTA.

20 Busiest Bus Agencies in the United States

Average weekday ridership, by agency:

01. New York (MTA) - 2,608,200
02. Los Angeles (MTA) - 1,122,800
03. Chicago (CTA) - 895,700
04. Philadelphia (SEPTA) - 547,300*
05. San Francisco (Muni) - 509,200*
06. Washington (WMATA) - 457,300
07. Seattle (Metro Transit) - 406,500*
08. Boston (MBTA) - 401,400*
09. Baltimore (MTA) - 264,800
10. Miami (M-DTA) - 239,500
11. Houston (MTA) - 232,100
12. Minneapolis (Metro Transit) - 232,000
13. Portland (TriMet) - 207,200
14. Denver (RTD) - 200,300
15. Atlanta (MARTA) - 195,500
16. Pittsburgh (Port Authority) - 175,900
17. San Diego (SDMTS) - 173,000
18. Orange County, CA (OCTA) - 154,300
19. San Antonio (VIA) - 132,400
20. Ft. Lauderdale (BCT) - 131,600

*Combined motor bus and trolley bus ridership

**New Jersey Transit did not provide APTA with daily ridership stats. My best guesstimate based on reported quarterly ridership is NJT provides 400,000 bus trips each weekday, ranking it #9 in the nation.
***Oakland's AC Transit does not provide APTA with ridership stats, but the Contra Costa Times estimates average weekday bus ridership at 200,000, ranking AC Transit #15 in the nation.
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Last edited by fflint; Oct 2, 2014 at 3:31 AM.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2014, 9:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fflint View Post
The newest APTA Quarterly Ridership Report is out! Here are the busiest heavy and light rail systems in the United States, by agency:

US Heavy Rail Agencies*
Average weekday ridership:

01. New York (MTA) - 9,006,700
02. Washington - 968,200
03. Chicago - 765,000
04. Boston - 581,900
05. San Francisco - 432,700
06. Philadelphia - 319,000
07. Jersey City (PATH) - 255,600
08. Atlanta - 221,700
09. Los Angeles - 147,900
10. Miami - 72,700
11. Baltimore - 48,800
12. San Juan - 39,100
13. Lindenwold (Patco Speedline) - 35,300
14. New York (Staten Island Railway) 26,200

*Cleveland did not provide APTA with weekday ridership statistics; my best guesstimate for Cleveland's daily ridership, based on the reported quarterly ridership total, is around 25,000.

20 Busiest US Light Rail Agencies*
Average weekday ridership:

01. San Francisco - 223,200
02. Boston - 222,000
03. Los Angeles - 198,800
04. Portland - 123,200
05. San Diego - 120,100
06. Philadelphia - 105,500
07. Dallas - 93,200
08. St. Louis - 69,800
09. Salt Lake City - 61,800
10. Denver - 58,100
11. Sacramento - 46,300
12. Houston - 43,900
13. Phoenix - 41,800
14. Seattle (Sound Transit) - 37,200
15. San Jose - 35,600
16. Minneapolis - 34,300
17. Pittsburgh - 28,600
18. Baltimore - 24,900
19. New Orleans - 20,600
20 Charlotte - 16,500

*Newark (NJT) did not provide APTA with weekday ridership stats; my best guesstimate for NJT average weekday ridership, based on the quarterly ridership totals, is around 80,000. That would rank NJT at #8 in the nation.
As big as Houston and Dallas are their ridership numbers are pitiful.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2014, 9:52 PM
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I'm wondering if SEPTA's Route 100/NHSL is counted as light or heavy rail for APTA purposes.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 10:32 PM
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Maybe this is a silly question but I'm curious... How do you get accurate ridership estimates for something like Boston's green line? During rush hour a large number of riders hop in the back doors without paying fare. I'm talking about the above ground sections that exist around BU and Allston etc.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 21, 2014, 11:15 PM
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Every agency has a fare evasion percentage
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  #39  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2014, 2:43 AM
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  #40  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2015, 9:12 PM
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I like this thread! I like APTA quarterly reports! I like them so much I made a graph for light rail systems rankings by monthly ridership totals over the last 15 years, courtesy of the APTA numbers:


The line colors are confusing because there are so many, so just start with the 3rd quarter of 2014 (far right) and read backward. The ranking for the 3rd quarter of 2014 is as follows:
#1 - Boston
#2 - Los Angeles
#3 - San Francisco
#4 - San Diego
#5 - Portland
#6 - Dallas
#7 - Philadelphia
#8 - Denver
#9 - Nework
#10 - Minneapolis
#11 - Salt Lake City
#12 - St Louis
#13 - Seattle (Sound Transit)
#14 - Huston
#15 - Phoenix
#16 - Sacramento
#17 - San Jose
#18 - Pittsburgh
#19 - Baltimore
#20 - New Orleans
#21 - Charlotte
#22 - Buffalo
#23 - Cleveland
#24 - Oceanside
#25 - Hampton
#26 - Seattle (King County)
#27 - Tampa
#28 - Memphis

Also, download the original spreadsheet at the blog in my sig line.

I had never seen transit ridership rankings represented in this way before. I think it is fascinating how often the rankings change. in the last 15 years no quarter went by when one system didn't overtake another. Transit ridership is obviously a very unpredictable trend to try and predict.
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