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  #3101  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:49 PM
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Ramako Ramako is offline
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post

For the TO shot, you also forgot the Mirvish towers which are approved, however they have not gone into sales yet. Also, 2020 might be a stretch as the project doesn't even have a reputable developer to build it. I would say 2022-2023 for completion.
I didn't forget Mirvish+Gehry. I left it out intentionally. Everyone with knowledge in the industry seems to think that it's very unlikely that the project will ever happen. I wanted this rendering to reflect projects that would almost certainly be built by 2020. And anyway, they wouldn't have a big impact from that angle in terms of creating a new peak.
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  #3102  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Pound for pound, Australia was considerably ahead of us the last 20 years. Our latest building boom has pulled us even despite still only having 4 big skyline cities to their 5. We can thank the mega boom in Toronto for that; it's now as big as Sydney and Melbourne put together.

Going forward, we might even pull ahead of Australia pound for pound as Montreal, Vancouver, and Calgary come on strong. Edmonton looks set to make it an even 5.

That said, Australia and Canada are tops. The UAE is arguably in that group as well, but Dubai and Abu Dhabi need more time to come together imo. One bit of data that jumped out at me last year was that Canada had roughly as many 100m+ buildings as the entire European Union. Add U/C and Proposed and we still keep pace. That puts things into context.
Not to mention that our tallest is actually taller than the EU tallest! Finding that out blew my mind.
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  #3103  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
I didn't forget Mirvish+Gehry. I left it out intentionally. Everyone with knowledge in the industry seems to think that it's very unlikely that the project will ever happen. I wanted this rendering to reflect projects that would almost certainly be built by 2020. And anyway, they wouldn't have a big impact from that angle in terms of creating a new peak.
Hmm so the city of Toronto created an entire panel, the media did dozens of interviews and reports for a project that is 100% in stone never going to have a chance of happening? Such a shame.
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  #3104  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:25 PM
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
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The property is rezoned. There is no time frame attached to zoning. Mirvish/Gehry's likely inability to get these towers realized doesn't mean the process was all for naught.

Gehry's an attention whore. Mirvish's mentor, Stinson, was an even bigger one. The media's attention is of little relevance.
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  #3105  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Hmm so the city of Toronto created an entire panel, the media did dozens of interviews and reports for a project that is 100% in stone never going to have a chance of happening? Such a shame.
Since when does "very unlikely" mean "100% in stone never going to have a chance of happening"? Please don't put words in my mouth.

Anyway, setting up a panel and doing some interviews is hardly a significant commitment of time and resources from the city. That they've done that much probably speaks more to the respect people have for David Mirvish and Frank Gehry, rather than to the actual viability of the project. After all, it's not planning staff's business to judge a project based on the developer's pro forma. I've yet to see any industry insiders describe this project as anything more than a long shot. Don't get me wrong; I'd love for it to proceed, but at this very early stage I don't think it's worth getting excited about it.
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  #3106  
Old Posted Yesterday, 6:04 PM
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Maybe when some "partnership" or "joint-venture" is announced we can get excited.

Possibly, flipped to a major developer?
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  #3107  
Old Posted Yesterday, 6:27 PM
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Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
Maybe when some "partnership" or "joint-venture" is announced we can get excited.

Possibly, flipped to a major developer?
That's what I'm guessing. The land has been rezoned, so something tall will definitely get built here eventually, but I suspect that Mirvish will, at best, become a junior partner and that Gehry might get the boot in favour of a somewhat more economical architect.
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  #3108  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:23 PM
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I'm becoming more convinced Mirvish actually wants to build it instead of just upzoning the site and cashing out. If so, count on the proposal languishing for years.
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Excavation/shoring of a multi-level pit is stage of construction. No one in their right mind would pay all this money if the plan wasn't to fill it immediately.
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  #3109  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:38 PM
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Good job on the render, Ramako. Pity to hear about Mirvish/Gehry. I would have bet on that one going ahead, and with little delay. Given the buzz, I believe they would sell out virtually overnight. But I don't have an inside track to, and knowledge of, the industry like some of you.
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  #3110  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:09 PM
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Yeah Toronto has so many huge tall tower PROPOSALS but when it comes to something concrete... there's not much on the horizon. After One Bloor East gets built up, that's the end of the fun until one of these tall proposals makes it to the other side of going into sales/ construction.

We have the Mirvish towers (900ft, 1000ft) which everyone on the inside believes will never get off the ground, then there's the Oxford project which most people see as a long term vision (10-20 years in the future) which will likely be altered, our office tower proposals are mounting... Union Centre (780ft), 156 Front (870ft), 45 Bay (833ft) are all awaiting tenants and could easily be 5-10, maybe even 15 years down the road. It's always hard to say with commercial towers because they can be downsized quite easily, and given Toronto's commercial boom in the last 7 years, there's not exactly a huge amount of companies lining up to headline a 1 million+ square foot tower. There's the rumours on One Bloor West monster but that's in the planning stages, and probably is still 1-2 years away from even being proposed. We have Cityplace Signature Towers at 710ft and 810ft but given the cheap design of those, many prefer they don't get built. What's left? There's One Yonge... a cluster of 5 towers that faces high chance of height reductions from council and even so is still probably 5+ years away from starting construction. Holts Tower seems stalled, and has been downsized from 910 to 750ft.

So I just hope some of these projects come out of the darkness of the "proposed" world and into a realistic chance of being constructed. After 1 Bloor and the taller Harbour Plaza twin, there's no more 750ft+ towers going ahead in TO. Do you guys think there will be a tower/s that could start construction in the next 4-5 years that will be in this category?
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  #3111  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure 45 Bay (830ft ++) will start some prep work before the end of the year. Full Excavation next year, because the Bus Terminal is built first, and I'm pretty sure of the 3 big office towers, it almost assured to go ahead, with a client on board as well.

Of course, if I had a say, 156 Front would be the choice.
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  #3112  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
So I just hope some of these projects come out of the darkness of the "proposed" world and into a realistic chance of being constructed. After 1 Bloor and the taller Harbour Plaza twin, there's no more 750ft+ towers going ahead in TO. Do you guys think there will be a tower/s that could start construction in the next 4-5 years that will be in this category?
You are only talking about "already proposed" towers... do you really think that no new buildings will be proposed in the near future? Ones we haven't yet heard about? Plenty of towers now U/C were proposed less than 5 years ago.
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  #3113  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
Yeah Toronto has so many huge tall tower PROPOSALS but when it comes to something concrete... there's not much on the horizon. After One Bloor East gets built up, that's the end of the fun until one of these tall proposals makes it to the other side of going into sales/ construction.

We have the Mirvish towers (900ft, 1000ft) which everyone on the inside believes will never get off the ground, then there's the Oxford project which most people see as a long term vision (10-20 years in the future) which will likely be altered, our office tower proposals are mounting... Union Centre (780ft), 156 Front (870ft), 45 Bay (833ft) are all awaiting tenants and could easily be 5-10, maybe even 15 years down the road. It's always hard to say with commercial towers because they can be downsized quite easily, and given Toronto's commercial boom in the last 7 years, there's not exactly a huge amount of companies lining up to headline a 1 million+ square foot tower. There's the rumours on One Bloor West monster but that's in the planning stages, and probably is still 1-2 years away from even being proposed. We have Cityplace Signature Towers at 710ft and 810ft but given the cheap design of those, many prefer they don't get built. What's left? There's One Yonge... a cluster of 5 towers that faces high chance of height reductions from council and even so is still probably 5+ years away from starting construction. Holts Tower seems stalled, and has been downsized from 910 to 750ft.

So I just hope some of these projects come out of the darkness of the "proposed" world and into a realistic chance of being constructed. After 1 Bloor and the taller Harbour Plaza twin, there's no more 750ft+ towers going ahead in TO. Do you guys think there will be a tower/s that could start construction in the next 4-5 years that will be in this category?
Everything seems stalled until it's not. Just a few weeks ago, 592 Sherbourne, Pinnacle Adelaide II and 501 Yonge all seem stalled, and now suddenly they're "The Selby Condos", "PJ Condos" and "TeaHouse Condos" respectively, and are ramping up their marketing and sales.

Condo sales have picked up again in recent months and so have project launches (e.g. The Selby Condos, PJ Condos, Residences of 488 University Avenue, TeaHouse Condos), so I wouldn't be shocked to see some of the 200+ metre condo projects begin sales sooner rather than later. Don't forget that both 50 Bloor West and 27 Yorkville have been approved already.

I'm also guessing that one of 156 Front, Union Centre and 45 Bay will start sometime next year. Rumours are that there's a big bank looking for space and all three are probably contending for it. 45 Bay probably has the edge as they've already got the deal with the bus terminal in place.
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  #3114  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:42 PM
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
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5 years is a long time. The city has been shut down since early August because of the election. We could easily see a tall proposal that hasn't been talked about in January. Less than a 1000, 750 footers in the entire world that have broken ground. It's not the end of the world if the tallest under construction in the city falls below that mark.


As others have stated, we have a good shot at an office tower and I would throw 50 Bloor into the pot too.
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Excavation/shoring of a multi-level pit is stage of construction. No one in their right mind would pay all this money if the plan wasn't to fill it immediately.
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