[Saint John] Fundy Quay (South Market Wharf) | 19-6s | 70m-26m | U/C

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by SaintJohner

I have been working in the background of this project and can tell you, there is no done deal, right now they are still talking back and forth, Marriott wants to go with a Residence Inn, like in the one in Moncton, but we are trying to convince them that it is worth the investment, but they aren't budging.

As for the tallest building in NB, I hate to burst the bubble on that but that is just a pipe dream, the height for this project is looking at 8-10 floors. I will keep you updated on the hotel situation and the height, but as of right now, we are looking at 8-10 Stories with a Residence Inn, there is just no way we can even justify building anything more than 12 at the highest, especially with the hotel vacancy rates being so high in Saint John during the winter months. I wish we could go taller, but it just wouldn't make sense.

The chances of a 5 star hotel in NB won't be happening anytime in this decade that's for sure.

Out of curiosity, how many rooms are we talking about?

Anyhow, considering the market conditions, 10 stories would not be bad at all.

[Monctoncore]

No offence but I hope you are wrong SaintJohner! I would love to see a development like that happen, 20+ floors would be stunning especially on one of the prettier waterways in the Maritimes, with cruise ships and other tours anything is possible! Even makes me kind of jealous to hear that this could happen in Saint John, while Moncton seems to be really coming to a halt on the development front lately!

[HardTruth]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

Out of curiosity, how many rooms are we talking about?

Anyhow, considering the market conditions, 10 stories would not be bad at all.

It would not be bad at all for Marriott as new hotels always do well...but I can guarantee at least two smaller hotels will close up, possibly another major one Uptown that I know is on the brink as it is.

With the current vacancy rate trend we will likely see hotel closures sooner than not, with or without new blood in the system.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by HardTruth

It would not be bad at all for Marriott as new hotels always do well...but I can guarantee at least two smaller hotels will close up, possibly another major one Uptown that I know is on the brink as it is.

With the current vacancy rate trend we will likely see hotel closures sooner than not, with or without new blood in the system.

So, what is this vacancy rate?

[Fischbob]

Thanks for the info, SaintJohner!

Glad to hear it's Marriott, even if the exact brand they go with is still up in the air. A JW Marriott would certainly be unrealistic for us - I could see a Renaissance Hotel doing OK here based on their pricing in other Canadian markets, although I am unfamiliar with their standard hotel size. I also think that just a standard 4-star Marriott would be a big win for us if that was to come to pass.

That being said, any Marriott brand would be a high quality addition to the Uptown (even their newer Fairfield Inns are nice!), and I'd be perfectly satisfied if it does end up being a Residence Inn.

Keep up the good work on this file - we're cheering you on!

[Monctoncore]

From the last few years Saint John has occupancy rate of around 48%-52% rooms sold each year, That is really not that bad, but not that good either, because it means half or close to half of the rooms available aren't being sold. That being said the three cities haven't been faring to well all under the National average of 61.5%.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

From the last few years Saint John has occupancy rate of around 48%-52% rooms sold each year, That is really not that bad, but not that good either, because it means half or close to half of the rooms available aren't being sold. That being said the three cities haven't been faring to well all under the National average of 61.5%.

What I was hearing was that the higher quality hotels, like the Hilton and Delta, were seeing high occupancy rates which was the explanation for a reasonable quality hotel like a Marriott in the new development.

Thanks for the info SaintJohner, but like others said I hope you are wrong. To me, a Residence Inn would be disappointing. 10-12 stories would be OK but would certainly love to see something higher.

[RR Drummer]

Although we would all love to have everything on our wishlist I think we want a development that will be feasible for our market and be a successful venture for the investors. A proven model will generate excitement and much needed future interest in Saint John, which is something we should all want.

[Wolkenkratzerliebhab]

Originally Posted by SaintJohner

I have been working in the background of this project and can tell you, there is no done deal, right now they are still talking back and forth, Marriott wants to go with a Residence Inn, like in the one in Moncton, but we are trying to convince them that it is worth the investment, but they aren't budging.

As for the tallest building in NB, I hate to burst the bubble on that but that is just a pipe dream, the height for this project is looking at 8-10 floors. I will keep you updated on the hotel situation and the height, but as of right now, we are looking at 8-10 Stories with a Residence Inn, there is just no way we can even justify building anything more than 12 at the highest, especially with the hotel vacancy rates being so high in Saint John during the winter months. I wish we could go taller, but it just wouldn't make sense.

The chances of a 5 star hotel in NB won't be happening anytime in this decade that's for sure.

I have no doubt that you could be correct in saying that the hotel may only be around ten floors, but hopefully those ten floors will be a part of a multi-use building of 20 or more floors. I would love to see a building consisting of ten floors of hotel space, 10 floors of offices and another 10 floors or so of condos. Not saying it will happen, but potentially it's something to consider, as I would love to see a really tall building happen. It would be a catalyst I think.

[cdnguys]

Maybe occupancy rates aren't as an important factor as you think. Most new hotel developments are condo hotels whereas people invest in condos that can be let out as hotel rooms and the owners profit share with the management/development company (I suppose you could say shared risk). That way the developers have the capital to build the hotel.

[dhottawa729]

Personally, I'd like to see low rise at the waterfront (<10 stories) to preserve the tapered skyline. Any building of significant height would be best situated at the top of the hill around king square or along Union - plus you'd get more apparent height!

[Monctoncore]

I agree with dhottawa, Saint John has a very San Francisco shape to it and could use that to there advantage, save the taller buildings for on the hill and more 8-10 floors for the harbour front, because you build a bunch of massive skyscrapers right on the water, then you loose that beautiful old city feel you get when you come into the port.

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

around king square

High-rise development in former Paramount lot. Get on it, developers! Go go go!

[Walk then Run]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Personally, I'd like to see low rise at the waterfront (<10 stories) to preserve the tapered skyline. Any building of significant height would be best situated at the top of the hill around king square or along Union - plus you'd get more apparent height!

I couldn't agree more. With the gifted people on this forum, someone should use their graphics and show what a 20+ story building would look like on the Coast Guard Site. Pictures are worth a thousand words!

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by Walk then Run

...someone should use their graphics and show what a 20+ story building would look like on the Coast Guard Site...

This is what I think would be the ideal skyline: A 25-storey point tower on Union, near Charlotte, two 10-storey towers along the waterfront, and a 12-storey tower at King Square near the Paramount site.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

This is what I think would be the ideal skyline: A 25-storey point tower on Union, near Charlotte, two 10-storey towers along the waterfront, and a 12-storey tower at King Square near the Paramount site.

And wouldn't a new World HQ for Irving Oil look great just to the left.....Mr. Irving??? Here's hoping for someday!

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

This is what I think would be the ideal skyline: A 25-storey point tower on Union, near Charlotte, two 10-storey towers along the waterfront, and a 12-storey tower at King Square near the Paramount site.

I quite like the look of that. I don't think its all that unreasonable in the next 20 years either.

[dhottawa729]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

I quite like the look of that. I don't think its all that unreasonable in the next 20 years either.

Unless a large bank or global company decided to set up HQ in SJ, the only company I can see ever claiming rights to the tallest tower in the City is the Irving empire.

Cities are often defined by their tallest buildings so it would be quite appropriate for Irving to build a trophy-like tower since they pretty much define the City anyway. Plus, it's not totally unreasonable since they have expressed interest in building a major HQ in the past. They just need to make it tall and slender rather than the previous short-and-squat version they had proposed for Long Wharf (which I never liked). I'd rather an urban village or a casino resort take that land.

[Joe]

Another spot for a tower would be to the left of the Brunswick Sq. tower. I'm thinking of the parking lot off Wellington row.

[Walk then Run]

Don't hold your breath on an Irving tower.



Their egos are not that big, nor would they invest a lot of money in a building! Why you ask? Buildings do not have the same investment return as would a new Coker for the refinery. Besides if they really wanted to stamp their presence via skyscraper, then they would have done it a long time ago.

IMHO, I truly believe that Mr. Kenneth Irving wanted the HQ built, but this and other ideas he had didn't sit well with his father...hence the "early retirement" from the family empire.