Winnipeg | RBC Convention Centre | Expansion | Completed - Page 23

Simplicity · #**441** Posted **Jan 16, 2015, 11:46 PM**

Stuart Olsen is paying $3.75MM in penalties for not developing the hotel. And they can't just develop any old hotel, it has to be a first class hotel that allows the conventioneers to collect points.

In other words, still no chance in hell. And now they're reporting that True North has interest in the site to develop a hotel which is another steaming pile given that True North isn't finished their existing development or even filling it and still has SoPo square to develop.

'Round and 'round we go...

esquire · #**442** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 2:58 PM**

More grim news expanding on what we heard about the RBCCC hotel on Friday:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...t-on-1.2917407

Maybe there's room for some sort of compromise here? Perhaps instead of holding out for a gleaming 25 storey Sheraton or whatever, maybe it can be a 6 storey Four Points or something else a little more feasible.

CoryB · #**443** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 4:07 PM**

With the write-down from the penalty the value of the former Carlton Inn site would be $2.85 million.

It is also somewhat concerning that True North is in talks to develop the site. Bowman was endorsed by Chipman in the campaign and seems to have close ties to Chipman/True North/Longboat. This could result in a situation similar to Katz/Shindelman/Shindico. Hopefully it doesn't though as it would be very disappointing to see the only real change being which group of people is benefiting from connections to city hall.

Riverman · #**444** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 4:14 PM**

Is a hotel even needed or wanted?

http://mytoba.ca/featured/too-many-beds-too-few-bums/

Authentic_City · #**445** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 8:37 PM**

What's this, just posted today. Is there actually something cooking here?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...ce=d-top-story

"Winnipeg's downtown development agency signed an option on the former Carlton Inn site with a developer months before a deal was struck to release a construction company from the obligation to build a hotel on the same land."

[...]

"On Monday, sources confirm CentreVenture signed an option on the Carlton Inn site in 2014. Angela Mathieson, CentreVenture's new president and CEO, said she could not confirm that option."

Simplicity · #**446** Posted **Jan 19, 2015, 11:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

What's this, just posted today. Is there actually something cooking here?

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...ce=d-top-story

"Winnipeg's downtown development agency signed an option on the former Carlton Inn site with a developer months before a deal was struck to release a construction company from the obligation to build a hotel on the same land."

[...]

"On Monday, sources confirm CentreVenture signed an option on the Carlton Inn site in 2014. Angela Mathieson, CentreVenture's new president and CEO, said she could not confirm that option."

Yes, the emergence of True North as the new Shindico. This is the deal that got Joshi walked out of City Hall and it's the deal that's going to get CV audited.

This is just getting fired up.

I love it. After all this time we're finally getting a little much-needed CentreVenture/Chipman scrutiny.

But seriously, an option is still an option. It'll be conditional on certain things and those conditions are what matter. Also, what's the cost of the option? Does it make it exclusive? And if it does, how long is the option good for? As somebody who's been screwed on them I hate them like poison, but it's in the city's best interest to run an RFP process where it's opened up to many different proposals. Why would you hamstring yourself with one? It doesn't make any sense for the city. There's no good reason you'd intentionally limit your options and that's how we know it's a bad deal without even knowing the details.

1ajs · #**447** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 12:44 AM**

true north does have a good standing on getting things done

as for the cao inless someone makes it public we really dont know what happend

trueviking · #**448** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 1:37 AM**

Ever look at who's on the board of centre venture?

How long was the MPI land option for?

1ajs · #**449** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 1:53 AM**

yea theres those issues as well be interesting to see what happens
i know one developer thats quiet upset over that whole thing

Simplicity · #**450** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 2:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

Ever look at who's on the board of centre venture?

How long was the MPI land option for?

Is there any certainty this is an option? MPI owns the land and is throwing it in as equity. There's no eventual purchase which is what an option would allow you. I think MPI could probably opt out or renew the partnership after the usual two years, but I'm sure there's a reporting requirement that gives them an idea of where Artis/Longboat are at with potential tenants and design.

That site is becoming less valuable by the day, though. If we don't get an announcement on MLL soon, it won't surprise me to see it mothballed for a while.

rkspec · #**451** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 2:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

Ever look at who's on the board of centre venture?

Is this not a conflict of interest when it comes to the city sealing deals with CV?

http://www.centreventure.com/our_board.php

cllew · #**452** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

Ever look at who's on the board of centre venture?

How long was the MPI land option for?

According to today's Free Press it was for 1 year and awarded to True North in 2012.

Biff · #**453** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:28 PM**

I don't know all the details but to me it looks like this whole mess arose when CentreVenture got involved. I feel it really isn't fair to punish the builder for not being able to complete a deal when CentreVenture came in and changed the playing field. I saw a few of the RFP submissions for the Convention Centre and Hotel combination required and a couple had the hotel built on top of the new addition. It seems that when the Carlton site was thrust upon the project it messed things up.

I may be wrong on the timing of things but I believe this is the case. Others on here might have some better inside information.

esquire · #**454** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:33 PM**

What a fiasco. CBC and the Free Press both have stories today indicting CV for how it carried on. Lots of straws blowing around in the wind but so far no grand unifying theory of what's behind CV's meddling and subsequent screwups.

CoryB · #**455** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:38 PM**

The dirt is really starting to come out now. The CBC is reporting a side deal was made between CentreVenture and CanadInns on both the St Regis and Carlton Inn sites. The deal saw CanadInns stepping in to help the owners avoid capital gains taxes and in return they received an interest free loan from CV and were shielded from any operational losses on those sites.

CBC Article

bomberjet · #**456** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:38 PM**

How convenient on the timing of McGowan's retirement. Nobody ever get's hung out to dry around here. It's just hush hush, go retire. Don't worry about it.

Simplicity · #**457** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 3:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cllew

According to today's Free Press it was for 1 year and awarded to True North in 2012.

I was confused about which MPI property. The Cityplace site - home of SoPo! - is also an MPI owned site. As is the lot on Donald @ York.

Tough to keep this all filed properly...

trueviking · #**458** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkspec

Is this not a conflict of interest when it comes to the city sealing deals with CV?

http://www.centreventure.com/our_board.php

ah...there used to be a true north person on the board....I guess not anymore.

trueviking · #**459** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 4:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biff

I don't know all the details but to me it looks like this whole mess arose when CentreVenture got involved. I feel it really isn't fair to punish the builder for not being able to complete a deal when CentreVenture came in and changed the playing field. I saw a few of the RFP submissions for the Convention Centre and Hotel combination required and a couple had the hotel built on top of the new addition. It seems that when the Carlton site was thrust upon the project it messed things up.

I may be wrong on the timing of things but I believe this is the case. Others on here might have some better inside information.

Yes. The $6m was the impediment for sure. It works at less than $2m for the land....or at least gets closer to working....coincidentally that was the assessed value of the land in the first place.

Simplicity · #**460** Posted **Jan 20, 2015, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking

ah...there used to be a true north person on the board....I guess not anymore.

Yeah, what the hell? Mark Chipman was on that board as late as September of last year.

It's also worth noting that link had been dead for a long time. All of a sudden, it's working.

The board as of only a few of months ago was as follows:

Curt Vossen (Chairperson)
Scott Stirton (Vice Chair)
Richard Olfert (Secretary / Treasurer)
Rick Bachalo
Doug Harvey
Rob Johnston
Kevin McGarry
Kim Jasper
Mark Chipman
Mayor Sam Katz (Honourary Chairperson)
Ross McGowan (President & CEO)

Things have obviously changed.