NEW YORK | 432 Park Avenue (Drake Hotel dev.) | (1,396) FT / 432 M | 89 FLOORS

[Submariner]

Very true, and has been mentioned, strong to violent (EF3-EF5) tornadoes are particularly rare (roughly 5% of all tornadoes) and the NYC region doesn't experience them very often to boot.

The Metro Tower in Lubbock Texas took a direct hit (or a near hit) from an F% tornado: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Tower_%28Lubbock%29

While it did survive, it suffered significant structural damage. In addition to having a far greater mass, buildings like 1WTC and 432 are undoubtedly built to higher standards than the Metro Tower, but both 1WTC and 432 have far greater surface areas. I'm not an engineer, I can't calculate the windload vs. mass/structural integrity but I'd be interested to see in how they compare.

Originally Posted by dfiler

The Titanic isn't a good analogy because icebergs presented a real and frequent danger. Ships sank for a variety of reasons on a regular basis. Full height bulkheads were omitted because they were too costly, not because hull leaks were believed to be rare.

On the other hand, has a skyscraper ever collapsed from tornado damage... any where on the planet ever?

That's an honest question. I honestly haven't heard of it happening. I would think that the windows would blow out and wind would pass through, ruining everything but not taking the building down. Skyscrapers are quite heavy in comparison to their surface area for bearing wind load (once the windows are broken).


If wanting to spend more money on building safety, tornado-proofing would seem to be pretty low on the priority list. Fire, earthquakes, and intentional sabotage pose a much larger threat.

[JACKinBeantown]

Less talk of tornadoes, more pictures!

(please)

[ILNY]

...and what about earthquakes? We are due for a big one. I would not like to be in that building when magnitude 5 earthquake hits.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_824106.html

New York City Is Overdue For Large Earthquake: Seismologist

By Simon McCormack
February 16, 2011

New York City could start shaking any minute now.
Won-Young Kim, who runs the seismographic network for the Northeast at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, said the city is well overdue for a big earthquake.
Kim said the city is likely to experience a big earthquake every 100 years or so.

"It can happen anytime soon," Kim said. "We can expect it any minute, we just don't know when and where."

New York has never experienced a magnitude 6 or 7 earthquake, which are the most dangerous. But magnitude 5 quakes could topple brick buildings and chimneys.

Seismologist John Armbruster said a magnitude 5 quake that happened now would be more devastating than the one that happened in 1884.

"Today, with so many more buildings and people ... we'd see billions in damage," Armbruster said. "People would probably be killed."

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by ILNY

...and what about earthquakes? We are due for a big one. I would not like to be in that building when magnitude 5 earthquake hits.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_824106.html

New York City Is Overdue For Large Earthquake: Seismologist

By Simon McCormack
February 16, 2011

Only the smaller buildings have to worry about earthquakes. Skyscrapers naturally survive earthquakes because they have the ability to sway with the quake. So it would be just fine..........

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by Downburst

Tornadoes can form anywhere provided the conditions are right- that said, significant ones are fairly rare, especially in the northeastern U.S. Given recent hurricane seasons and with the likelihood increasing for more/stronger hurricanes, I would personally be more concerned about them.

Given the state of the concrete right now, I think this building will look a lot better from farther away... though I don't doubt its impact from street level will be astounding.

It shouldn't be a worry. All the skyscrapers in New York City are designed to resist Hurricanes. It dates back to almost a century. Even the Empire State Building was designed to survive a Hurricane..........

[chris08876]

Queens and Brooklyn and Staten Island would be mostly affected. Unless glass breaks or utilities fall in Manhattan then danger would occur but the high-rises there are strong enough and the sway factor helps channel the energy safely. Upper Manhattan might get affected badly due to mostly brick buildings there that are smaller in nature. But lets hope that doesn't happen lol.

[ih8pickingusernames]

Forgetting about tsunami's I see.

[JayPro]

Forgetting about the topic of this thread, I see...........

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1

Only the smaller buildings have to worry about earthquakes. Skyscrapers naturally survive earthquakes because they have the ability to sway with the quake. So it would be just fine..........

Although true the building will sway, that swaying can fracture concrete, warp steel, twist floor plates, sheer bolts, and potentially cause failures in key structural components of a building; depending on the severity of the quake. It is rare, but it is scary to think about what could happen.

[Hudson11]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

Although true the building will sway, that swaying can fracture concrete, warp steel, twist floor plates, sheer bolts, and potentially cause failures in key structural components of a building; depending on the severity of the quake. It is rare, but it is scary to think about what could happen.

which is why the people who design buildings like these do think about what can happen and plan accordingly.

[JACKinBeantown]

Someone please post a freakin' picture of this building so everyone stops talking about the weather.

[babybackribs2314]

Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown

Someone please post a freakin' picture of this building so everyone stops talking about the weather.

I've been hampered by this awful heat, but it has FINALLY relented - will have an update this coming Friday again! Though surely someone will post a photo beforehand.

It has literally been 95-100 every day with heat indexes of 105-110 though, and I'm fragile. Plus, taking the subway exacerbates everything, as it literally gets to 130 degrees down below. It has been like living in an oven.

[treblelino]

Although the building will be cool to look at, I wouldn't want to live in it because it looks too thin, like it would topple over.

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by ih8pickingusernames

Forgetting about tsunami's I see.

A tsunami can't destroy this building. At best it's height would only be 100 feet. This building is almost 1,300 feet taller. Not to mention that it's construction would allow it to stand..........

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

Although true the building will sway, that swaying can fracture concrete, warp steel, twist floor plates, sheer bolts, and potentially cause failures in key structural components of a building; depending on the severity of the quake. It is rare, but it is scary to think about what could happen.

Hurricane resistance is extremely similar to earthquake resistance. It will be fine..........

Most of you are extremely ignorant. These questions are answered way before construction by the people that are building it. Not to mention that if you think this building was weak it would have meant that the Twin Towers were weak. The only differences between 432 Park Avenue and the Twin Towers are A) The Twin Towers were made out of steel not concrete B) The Twin Towers were twice as wide as 432 Park Avenue and C) 432 Park Avenue is a single entity not two..........

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by treblelino

Although the building will be cool to look at, I wouldn't want to live in it because it looks too thin, like it would topple over.

Look at my reply it's only half of the width and length of the Twin Towers..........

[scalziand]

For yet another time, here's the engineering report. Wind, earthquake, etc responses are considered in it. There's 7 transfer floors, but according to the report there only needs to be 3. This tower is very overbuilt.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BS...de=ES571043069

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1

A tsunami can't destroy this building. At best it's height would only be 100 feet. This building is almost 1,300 feet taller. Not to mention that it's construction would allow it to stand..........



Hurricane resistance is extremely similar to earthquake resistance. It will be fine..........

Most of you are extremely ignorant. These questions are answered way before construction by the people that are building it. Not to mention that if you think this building was weak it would have meant that the Twin Towers were weak. The only differences between 432 Park Avenue and the Twin Towers are A) The Twin Towers were made out of steel not concrete B) The Twin Towers were twice as wide as 432 Park Avenue and C) 432 Park Avenue is a single entity not two..........

Ignorant is the one who thinks they can "plan" for Mother Nature. How about asteroids? Is that preventative measure in the plans too? Lol. Just saying though, you can't plan for the power behind the worst natural disasters; as rare as they may be.

[Roadcruiser1]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

Ignorant is the one who thinks they can "plan" for Mother Nature. How about asteroids? Is that preventative measure in the plans too? Lol. Just saying though, you can't plan for the power behind the worst natural disasters; as rare as they may be.

Yeah and so??????????

[MarshallKnight]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

Ignorant is the one who thinks they can "plan" for Mother Nature. How about asteroids? Is that preventative measure in the plans too? Lol. Just saying though, you can't plan for the power behind the worst natural disasters; as rare as they may be.

If every building built had to conform to standards of the very worst that nature could throw at us, nothing would ever be built. If an asteroid smashed into the Atlantic and sent up a 1000 ft. super-tsunami, the only safe place to be is way the hell inland. But 432 Park is made of incredibly strong materials, and way over-engineered. However it looks, it's one of the safest places in the city you could be during a natural disaster -- inside the core of 1WTC would probably be the other.

We build things as strong as we can, often over-strong (see Scalziand's link to the report with the transfer floors), based on what's likely. I for one am glad we're not all living in underground bunkers in the Midwest because of what could theoretically happen.

[JACKinBeantown]

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314

I've been hampered by this awful heat, but it has FINALLY relented - will have an update this coming Friday again! Though surely someone will post a photo beforehand.

It has literally been 95-100 every day with heat indexes of 105-110 though, and I'm fragile. Plus, taking the subway exacerbates everything, as it literally gets to 130 degrees down below. It has been like living in an oven.

Soon please!