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Old Posted Feb 2, 2012, 11:30 PM
Tropics Tropics is offline
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Westbrook Redevelopment Project

It seems that the city is now moving forward with this. The school is being demolished and the land is going to be portioned into 4 seperate segments and sold off to interested parties.

Here are some crucial snippets from an article "Redevelopment gathers steam" that was in the Calgary Herald written by Richard White published on January 13th, accessed from http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...080/story.html

**************************************************
"One of the biggest urban development events of 2012 could be the city’s Westbrook Station land sale on the Ernest Manning High School site.

The project is just one part of the larger Westbrook Village redevelopment — a 21-hectare site that encompasses the area from Bow Trail on the north to 17th Avenue S.W. on the south; and from 33rd Street S.W. on the east and 37th Street S.W. on the west — and includes Westbrook Mall.

I recently had an interesting chat with Robert Moskovitz, manager of land servicing for the City of Calgary.

He will be overseeing the land servicing and development of four parcels of city-owned land next to the underground Westbrook LRT Station on the new west LRT leg.

<snip>

Moskovitz indicated that, as per the Area Redevelopment Plan, the vision for this site is for a mixed-use development similar in scale to the Intergulf development on the north side of Bow Trail and 37th Street.

It could also look like Balboa’s Keynote project in the Beltline, which has two condo towers and one office tower, along with retail, restaurants and cafes at the base.

<snip>

The city will be looking for projects that are pedestrian-friendly, mixed-use and mixed income — developers are required to provide two per cent of all residential units as affordable housing.

<snip>

Ideally, Moskovitz says the city would like to have one developer buy all four parcels, but officials will be looking for the best proposals for each site.

These will be evaluated based on the following criteria:

-- Consistency with land use, density and architectural character.

<snip>

-- Approach to affordable housing.

<snip>

-- Price offered for the land.

<snip>

I tried to coax Moskovitz into divulging how much money the city hoped to raise from this sale — even a ballpark figure — but his lips were tightly sealed.

When I chatted with developers and real estate professionals about what they thought the land might be worth, they, too, were reluctant to give a ballpark price — too many variables, they said.

<snip>

Other issues include geotechnical restrictions due to an LRT tunnel, potential unrealistic density and timing demands based on current market conditions, green design demands and mandatory affordable housing requirements.

Some pointed to The Bridges project, another city-lead redevelopment project where a recent land offering that specifically requested a mix of affordable and market housing attracted few interested developers.


<snip>

*****************************************************

I have long hoped they would push this forward but numerous things the city have done on moving forward leave me less then thrilled and IMO they are going to end up with a result FAR less then what it could be.

First off, the 2% affordable housing requirement is (as the article mentions) going to limit the offers the city receives for the land and also limit the amount of money that a developer is going to spend on the project. This vision

http://realestate.cocnmp.com/documen...tation_tod.pdf

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/LUPP/Docum...illage-arp.pdf

is not going to happen when you start bringing in mandatory affordable housing restrictions on land that the city still wants to sell at a premium price. Some developer probably WOULD build that vision, but they are going to need to sell the square footage at fair market price for the Calgary market that such a development would demand. Anything that is going to cut into their bottom line is going to cut into the amount of money that they spend on both the land, and the project, that is simple economics 101 and the city of Calgary will end up with a Westbrook that is less then what it could be.

If the City of Calgary really wants to have affordable housing that is fine, but you do not try to "mix" affordable housing into a high end retail and high end residential project. You build Westbrook as a high end residential and retail center as the visions of the city clearly indicate they want, and then you get the builder to build a "different" building on a "different" piece of land that the city owns that is 100% affordable housing and is custom built for that purpose. You do not try to somehow put affordable housing into development that are clearly otherwise aimed at a high end market.

Get rid of the 2% requirement, the land then becomes more valuable, the city sells it for more money, the developer builds a higher end retail and residential place that stands out more and is more impressive, the units sell for more money, the city gets more in tax revenue from the more valuable housing, and then you can build a 100% affordable housing project with that excess tax revenue and the extra money the land sold for on another piece of city land.

On top of that the city mentions that they are hoping for a single developer so that they can keep a consistency in the design, yet they broke up the land into 4 seperate packages. Not to mention that 20 Vic Management seems to own Westbrook Mall and both the building to the North with the Spa Lady AND the strip mall/professional building to the south. In effect one group already "owns" most of the land needed for the redevelopment, a parcel of land far bigger then the entire school land parcel. And 20 Vic, they did The Core redevelopment which most would say was a pretty impressive job and seems to have a similar theme to the Westbrook Redevelopment vision the city has put forth of modern themed buildings that blend in green spaces and trees.

If they sell the land to anyone else, even the whole school parcel, that developer is STILL not going to own the bulk of Westbrook and the consistency issue will still not be dealt with.

If they can get 20 Vic to buy the land and develop the entire area of Westbrook from 17th avenue to Bow trail and 33rd to 37th avenue, without the mandatory affordable housing in the Westbrook Station then they actually have a chance of getting that vision in those PDF's that they are looking for. When making the deal simply have a caveat that the developer of the Westbrook Station project must also build "at cost" a 100% affordable housing project on a different piece of land for the City of Calgary.

The City of Calgary has a GREAT vision in the above PDF plans, but they are handcuffing the developers and moving forward in a way such that the vision will never be realized. They need to actually work with the developers to get what they envisioned built, not handcuff them and start putting restrictions on them and break the school property into 4 seperate parcels and make the likelyhood of multiple developers WAY more likely. Their words and their actions on this are going in completely opposite directions.

Last edited by Tropics; Feb 5, 2012 at 5:54 AM.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 2:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tropics View Post
Anything that is going to cut into their bottom line is going to cut into the amount of money that they spend on both the land, and the project, that is simple economics 101 and the city of Calgary will end up with a Westbrook that is less then what it could be.

If the City of Calgary really wants to have affordable housing that is fine, but you do not try to "mix" affordable housing into a high end retail and high end residential project. You build Westbrook as a high end residential and retail center as the visions of the city clearly indicate they want, and then you get the builder to build a "different" building on a "different" piece of land that the city owns that is 100% affordable housing and is custom built for that purpose. You do not try to somehow put affordable housing into development that are clearly otherwise aimed at a high end market.
I don't know; I think it could be a vibrant and diverse community node, but you seem to want it to be less than that; a gated community for the rich. Unfortunately, the dream of 100% poor-person housing is dying as they implode Cabrini-Green, and Pruit-Igoe and the Robert Taylor Homes.

Besides, if the City "clearly wants" an encampment for the wealthy, what is that 2% affordable housing requirement doing in there? Did they accidentally develop the guiding principle for "A diverse range of multi-family types offered in a range of sizes and configurations increases choice and affordability, especially when combined with a reduced need to own a car." (Principle 7 of the Westbrook ARP)

The article mentions Keynote as a size comparison; that's around 550 units, 2% of which is 11. I have faith that there are developers in this big ol' world of ours capable of building an entire dozen affordable units, as a part of a 2.3 million square foot development.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 4:09 AM
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Welcome to the forum. Thanks for starting the thread and posting.

A few things though. First off, you can't post an entire article like you have. Only an excerpt (say a couple paragraphs), the title, the author, the date and link. It's copyright infringement to post the whole thing. News agencies have taken legal action against forums such as this because of people reproducing the whole article or even most of it. The image and article posting guide is available at the bottom of each page of this forum as a dropdown in the quick reply box.

Regarding the affordable housing inclusion, while I would agree that there may be some issues with execution, I would say that the appetite of developers to include affordable units in their projects does exist. I also don't think that there would be much appreciable compromise on quality, in general, when compared to what the project might be without the affordable unit inclusion. When discussing the issue with developers as a member of the planning committee for my community association, many developers (in fact almost all if memory serves) have said that they have no problem with and actually want to include some affordable units in all their projects. They want to do this because in many cases they believe it enhances the project as a whole for all its end users and as a policy they just believe it is the right thing to do from a corporate citizen standpoint. Where the stumbling block has been, at least in my community's case, is that any benefits that the City would provide for including affordable units (density bonusing, leverage for decisions on relaxation applications, etc.) are offset by some problems with how the City defines what an affordable unit is and how they are managed. Basically the City requires that they be added to the City's Affordable Housing inventory, which has some strict criteria that doesn't always translate well into including them in the developer's plans.

So long story short, it if it is managed a little better on the City's end, it shouldn't have much affect on the quality outcome of Westbrook. The developers agree with the principle, by in large.

Also, I think you're putting too much weight into the City's desire for there to be one developer. I think that was more just the musings of the interviewee. They'll take one, two, three or four developers if that's how it ends up playing out. The parcel breakup was likely for a few reasons.

1. Two or more of the parcels likely have planned public roads (as set out by the ARP) which separate them, all but requiring the separate parcel delineation.

2. It gives them more options to market the parcels to developers (i.e. if their desire for one developer isn't in the cards, the parcels can go piecemeal). It also allows one or two of the parcels to sell now, if that's how it plays out, rather than being stuck with one big parcel that won't sell.

Last edited by frinkprof; Feb 3, 2012 at 5:36 AM.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 5:37 AM
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I'm glad to see some discussion on Westbrook. I was under the impression that there was to be more units of housing. Also, quite frankly, the 2% on low-income/below market rates on housing is absurd! Do some folks really believe the city and all or most neighborhoods be for upper-income residents? I don't think the city really would want this and if anything a min. of 5% below market rates should be allowed, and maybe that isn't enough. This plan was concieved in the prior administration anyway wasn't it?
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 5:40 AM
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My above post should have said 5% of total units should be for low/below market rates. Maybe even a little higher. Sorry, my bad!
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 7:26 PM
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Nice to see movement on this, there's so much potential there.

Between Brentwood and Westbrook, we're seeing some good progress on transit node/TOD development
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 8:15 PM
Tropics Tropics is offline
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for starting the thread and posting.

A few things though. First off, you can't post an entire article like you have. Only an excerpt (say a couple paragraphs), the title, the author, the date and link. It's copyright infringement to post the whole thing. News agencies have taken legal action against forums such as this because of people reproducing the whole article or even most of it.
Ack, I will edit it down to the crucial bits.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 9:24 PM
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I don't know; I think it could be a vibrant and diverse community node, but you seem to want it to be less than that; a gated community for the rich.
Nah, I want almost exactly what is in the Westbrook Redevelopment Plan PDF's from the City of Calgary, nothing gated as I will not live there but I live in the community and I would love a central hub of higher end retail and shopping in the area that is currently now Westbrook.

The city is trying something very specific at Westbrook, they are trying to move towards high density communities as a alternative to the suburbs, but that is only possible by giving the people who can afford to live in the suburbs a living experience that actually reflects their income and is a viable option to a house, or they will simply take their money and buy a house.

It is not the people with $250,000 that the city needs to get to start buying condos, that is my income bracket, we are already buying condos because we cannot afford a house in this city, we don't create the sprawl. To stop the urban sprawl and get people who can afford a house in Calgary to instead buy a condo you need a condo to become a really attractive alternative at their income level. That means making the whole community really nice with fancy coffee shops and a nice high end supermarket and a nice wine shop and a fancy central park with green spaces, ect... Westbrook needs to be nice, really nice, or you will get people saying "nah, not nice enough, I am going to go buy a house with a yard in the burbs 3 minutes drive from Aspen Landing and its nice shops and restaurants".

The city needs to come to grips that building high density in the near city communities is not enough to slow urban crawl, they need to start making the areas super nice and desirable so that the people with higher incomes start to see it as a viable alternative lifestyle that still reflects their income bracket. They still want that high end retail shopping, they want the fancy wine store, they want a Sunterra Market, they want the higher end restaurants chains at their doorstep. They want at least Kensington level shopping or they will pass on it. The people with real money want the Westbrook Redevelopment plan down to a tee, and they wont settle for less. Cut the scope of the project back, make it not "quite that nice" because of restrictions and handcuffing the developer and all that will happen is they will take their money elsewhere.

The developers know this, once they get handcuffed and cannot build the project like they need to because their bottom line gets cut into by that affordable housing requirement they will target the middle end 200's to 400's for a 1-2 bedroom condo bracket where that affordable housing is actually less of a cut into their profits because they are closer to the value of the other units. That is what took place at the Bridge development. That does not help the city in doing what they actually want to see Calgary start to move towards. They need to actually start to target the higher income brackets with condo developments and Westbrook is an obvious place they thought hard about doing that given the redvelopment plans and the vision they show.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 10:23 PM
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Nah, I want almost exactly what is in the Westbrook Redevelopment Plan PDF's from the City of Calgary, nothing gated as I will not live there but I live in the community and I would love a central hub of higher end retail and shopping in the area that is currently now Westbrook.

The city is trying something very specific at Westbrook, they are trying to move towards high density communities as a alternative to the suburbs, but that is only possible by giving the people who can afford to live in the suburbs a living experience that actually reflects their income and is a viable option to a house, or they will simply take their money and buy a house.

It is not the people with $250,000 that the city needs to get to start buying condos, that is my income bracket, we are already buying condos because we cannot afford a house in this city, we don't create the sprawl. To stop the urban sprawl and get people who can afford a house in Calgary to instead buy a condo you need a condo to become a really attractive alternative at their income level. That means making the whole community really nice with fancy coffee shops and a nice high end supermarket and a nice wine shop and a fancy central park with green spaces, ect... Westbrook needs to be nice, really nice, or you will get people saying "nah, not nice enough, I am going to go buy a house with a yard in the burbs 3 minutes drive from Aspen Landing and its nice shops and restaurants".

The city needs to come to grips that building high density in the near city communities is not enough to slow urban crawl, they need to start making the areas super nice and desirable so that the people with higher incomes start to see it as a viable alternative lifestyle that still reflects their income bracket. They still want that high end retail shopping, they want the fancy wine store, they want a Sunterra Market, they want the higher end restaurants chains at their doorstep. They want at least Kensington level shopping or they will pass on it. The people with real money want the Westbrook Redevelopment plan down to a tee, and they wont settle for less. Cut the scope of the project back, make it not "quite that nice" because of restrictions and handcuffing the developer and all that will happen is they will take their money elsewhere.

The developers know this, once they get handcuffed and cannot build the project like they need to because their bottom line gets cut into by that affordable housing requirement they will target the middle end 200's to 400's for a 1-2 bedroom condo bracket where that affordable housing is actually less of a cut into their profits because they are closer to the value of the other units. That is what took place at the Bridge development. That does not help the city in doing what they actually want to see Calgary start to move towards. They need to actually start to target the higher income brackets with condo developments and Westbrook is an obvious place they thought hard about doing that given the redvelopment plans and the vision they show.
I think you've really misinterpreted the city's goals regarding TODs. They want a healthy mix of income levels. The entire point of which is complete communities as opposed to class segregation. Concentrating wealth means concentrating poverty elsewhere and that is problematic in many ways.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 1:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tropics View Post
Nah, I want almost exactly what is in the Westbrook Redevelopment Plan PDF's from the City of Calgary, nothing gated as I will not live there but I live in the community and I would love a central hub of higher end retail and shopping in the area that is currently now Westbrook.

The city is trying something very specific at Westbrook, they are trying to move towards high density communities as a alternative to the suburbs, but that is only possible by giving the people who can afford to live in the suburbs a living experience that actually reflects their income and is a viable option to a house, or they will simply take their money and buy a house.

It is not the people with $250,000 that the city needs to get to start buying condos, that is my income bracket, we are already buying condos because we cannot afford a house in this city, we don't create the sprawl. To stop the urban sprawl and get people who can afford a house in Calgary to instead buy a condo you need a condo to become a really attractive alternative at their income level. That means making the whole community really nice with fancy coffee shops and a nice high end supermarket and a nice wine shop and a fancy central park with green spaces, ect... Westbrook needs to be nice, really nice, or you will get people saying "nah, not nice enough, I am going to go buy a house with a yard in the burbs 3 minutes drive from Aspen Landing and its nice shops and restaurants".

The city needs to come to grips that building high density in the near city communities is not enough to slow urban crawl, they need to start making the areas super nice and desirable so that the people with higher incomes start to see it as a viable alternative lifestyle that still reflects their income bracket. They still want that high end retail shopping, they want the fancy wine store, they want a Sunterra Market, they want the higher end restaurants chains at their doorstep. They want at least Kensington level shopping or they will pass on it. The people with real money want the Westbrook Redevelopment plan down to a tee, and they wont settle for less. Cut the scope of the project back, make it not "quite that nice" because of restrictions and handcuffing the developer and all that will happen is they will take their money elsewhere.

The developers know this, once they get handcuffed and cannot build the project like they need to because their bottom line gets cut into by that affordable housing requirement they will target the middle end 200's to 400's for a 1-2 bedroom condo bracket where that affordable housing is actually less of a cut into their profits because they are closer to the value of the other units. That is what took place at the Bridge development. That does not help the city in doing what they actually want to see Calgary start to move towards. They need to actually start to target the higher income brackets with condo developments and Westbrook is an obvious place they thought hard about doing that given the redvelopment plans and the vision they show.
I think the population your referring to is quite a bit smaller than the middle income bracket who buys houses around 400-600k and wants the Costco and Wal-mart next door and they want a back yard too, these are the people that you need to convince to buy into these developments, the high end market is served well downtown already.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 7:46 AM
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I think you've really misinterpreted the city's goals regarding TODs. They want a healthy mix of income levels. The entire point of which is complete communities as opposed to class segregation. Concentrating wealth means concentrating poverty elsewhere and that is problematic in many ways.
Spruce Cliff has the highest percentage of low income households in the SW quadrant of the city outside of the core and one of the highest percentages in the whole City of Calgary at 31.8%, Rosscarrock has 27.6%. If they push this requirement through and marginalize the development of Westbrook then the continued segregation of the lower income residents into a single area is exactly what they are accomplishing.

You know where else has one of the highest percentages of lower income households at the same 31.8%? Bridgeland, the same place they also messed up a huge development project with that 2% requirement. They are not doing this stuff in the communities with less lower income households, they are doing it where there are already large populations of lower income households specifically so tell me again how they are "not" attempting to concentrate wealth in one area and restrict poverty to another? That is exactly what they are accomplishing when these requirements marginalize the developments in the communities that the city targets with these practices and keep them in their current states.

The people who live in these communities, who have invested in these communities, and pay taxes to the city for living in these communities do not deserve to have their communities singled out and have their potential development and rejuvination of their communities suffer due to affordable housing requirements that are so very clearly targetted only at specific communities that already have large low income household numbers. They are killing these communities that are already falling behind the surrounding neighborhoods in terms of investment and rejuvination by doing stuff like this to them and them specifically. They wont do this to Currie Barracks, they do not do it to Aspen Landing, but the area of Westbrook that so dearly needs rejuvination and redevelopment, they immediately handcuff the biggest redevelopment potential opportunity the area has ever seen.

These targetted communities are not becomming more diverse, they are not getting the mix of low to high income, they are being kept to already far higher then average percetages of lower income housing then the city average and this is actually creating more disparity between one community and the next. The area of Westbrook needs a high end development just to close the gap with the surrounding communities, the last thing it needs at this stage is for the city to handcuff the potential of the redevelopment of Westbrook Station.

As a member of my community of Spruce Cliff, I simply want my community to have a chance at a nice central hub just like most of the areas in Calgary have a chance to have without the City stepping in and trying to mess that up with an affordable housing restriction that has already proven to deter alot of developers from entering into a project. Instead the city has targetted Spruce Cliff as a low income resident hub and they have decided to pressure future development into making that trend continue.

The area of Spruce Cliff is one of the most shoddy areas in Calgary when it comes to commercial real estate and retail, we have old buildings, few good restaurants, little to no curb appeal, we need this one nice central area of higher end retail in that one area. Alot of us residents have been waiting patiently for Westbrook to be redeveloped for years, we saw the plans and we liked them, and now finally the plans move forward and the City trips the whole project up and has a chance to destroy what might have been.

All I want is for them to not screw up the central hub of the whole community and a vision that would have made this community have a distinctly unique and attractive area with its own style with this 2% requirement. The only place I want them NOT to do this thing is on that area between 17th and Bow, and 33rd and 37th street.

In that single parcel of land, the center of our community, build a central hub to the community as nice as absolutely possible and don't handcuff the developers over a absurd 2% reqiurement that is a drop in the affordable housing bucket and will have little positive affect on the housing issue at that income bracket but that WILL damage the end result of the development just like it did on the Bridge project. Let Spruce Cliff have as nice a central hub as a non-handcuffed developer is willing to build for us.

There is nothing wrong with lower income housing in Spruce Cliff and the surrounding area. We already have tons of it and it is not an issue for me. They are going to be getting rid of the library in Spruce Cliff and they can build an affordable housing complex on that land designed to be 100%affordable housing for all I care. That is 1 block from my condo, closer to me then Westbrook Mall, that is cool with me if they build it there, tons of affordable housing right on 33rd street right overlooking the golf course.

Tear the old library that is about to be replaced down and get whoever is developing the Westbrook Station project to build an entire affordable housing complex on that land the library is currently on as part of the deal. Forget 2% ON the Westbrook Station land, get them to build an entire building on the old library land at cost. Take off the handcuffs for Westbrook Station itself so that it can be built right and become as cool as a developer is able when all the restrictions are removed.

We are a community that deserves one nice development, one high point, and it is not right for the city to step in and screw that up on us like this.

Last edited by Tropics; Feb 4, 2012 at 8:04 AM.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 8:32 AM
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Wow, those 12 extra poor people in your backyard are apparently the straw that breaks the camel's back.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 3:54 PM
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There is a large affordable housing complex in Aspen Woods. Not that far from the $12 million house.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 5:26 PM
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So I'm curious of this area could end up with a big redevelopment focus similar to what the city seems to desire for the Chinook mall area (which doesn't seem to have moved at all yet though).
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 6:18 PM
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I live in Spruce Cliff as well and I enjoy the mix of people living in the community. I run within the community all the time and I don't think it is as shoddy as you say. I also think that the stats you provide don't paint the exact picture....

Yes there is the low income housing on Spruce drive, but also the extended care centre and senior living complex. With being such a small community those two places will affect the stats. Also when were those stats from? Do they include both the Westgate park residences and the new ones along the ridge?

Chris
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 7:19 PM
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This Westbrook site is going to be really great. I have already spoken to a number of people (condo minded people) that are excited to buy in. Having a beautiful train ride downtown every morning 6 stories above sunalta will be amazing.
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Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 9:38 PM
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I live in Spruce Cliff as well and I enjoy the mix of people living in the community. I run within the community all the time and I don't think it is as shoddy as you say. I also think that the stats you provide don't paint the exact picture....

Yes there is the low income housing on Spruce drive, but also the extended care centre and senior living complex. With being such a small community those two places will affect the stats. Also when were those stats from? Do they include both the Westgate park residences and the new ones along the ridge?

Chris
I have no issue with the affordable housing as I have already mentioned and I am totally fine if they build more in Spruce Cliff but I simply do not want them to put that mandatory 2% affordable housing requirement directly into the redevelopment requirements for the Westbrook Station project as it can, and will affect the scope and scale of the project just like it has on previous projects.

The shoddy nature of the retail centers that we have in this neighborhood are hard to miss TBH, the buildings along 17th avenue are all old, Westbrook mall is one of the least used malls with no character in the whole city, the professional building beside Westbrook is equally old and it shows that age. Heck, if you live in Spruce Cliff, can you really tell me our little strip mall across the parking lot from the community center is a "nice" strip mall in your eyes? It is a terribly unappealing building.

This neighborhood and the other neighborhoods around Westbrook Mall need that redevelopment project to be done and be done absolutely right, being both highly functional as a center hub and acting as an attraction and enticement for future development and investment in this community. We have had VERY little redvelopment and very little investment into this community for decades and it shows. We deserve Westbrook Station to be built the way it should be built and without restrictions on the developers marginalizing the project and leading to a result of something less then what it could be.

Westbrook Station development will set the trend for its surrounding communities for decades, dependent on what is actually built and how appealing it is. This project will either catalyse further redevelopment and revitalization in the area, or it will instead set a precident that will put the surrounding areas into a state of stasis where redevelopment and investment in the community stagnates and developers look to other communities.

All future development in this area will benefit from Westbrook Station being done completely by the vision, with no handcuffs on the developers so that we can get the most architecturally impressive structures, green spaces, and shopping experience possible. If they screw this up it is going to have repercussions that last decades for the surrouding communities and cost FAR more then a silly 2% affordable housing requirement does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimby
There is a large affordable housing complex in Aspen Woods. Not that far from the $12 million house.
And that is how you are SUPPOSED to do it. You build a single complex 100% created for that purpose. THAT is what I have been asking for.

I would love more details on who built the complex, who owned the land it was built on, what other development complex it was associated with that the developer was building, whether the developer of that was required to buy the land from the city that they then built the affordable housing on for the city.
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2012, 12:32 AM
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kw5150 kw5150 is offline
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In Edmonton, they have a hugely successful area near Grant Macewan that reminds me of the Westbrook area. The Grant Macewan area redevelopment is too corporate for my liking, but definately fills the void.

There are a number of reasons why this area is desirable and it should remain that way for all. When me and the man were renting up in Westbrook, we found all of the "trashy" malls convenient.

Certainly we can take this existing context and deliver a great concept with it. There is already a main hub up there, lets expand on it. The train service is going to really open the area up.

I hope this development has affordable condo units and not just a bunch of $450,000 2 bedroom units! What is the category for people who lie between "affordable" and "mid level". We require more of those types of units.

It will be great to see how this project evolves. I would even move out there, depending on amenities and cost.

There should be:

12% "affordable"
58% "Termite Level Income"
22% Mid Level Income,
8% Luxury 3 - 4 bedroom condos. For the rich people who can do anything they want and live anywhere.
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  #19  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2012, 12:38 AM
TallBob TallBob is offline
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If you want to make the argument for developements/complexes for low-income (or no-income) housing, I sugest you look at most large American cities!! Segregating people based on income, is a policy that failed misserably. I'm hopeful that the same mistakes aren't goung to be made in Canada.
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  #20  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2012, 12:51 AM
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kw5150 kw5150 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBob View Post
If you want to make the argument for developements/complexes for low-income (or no-income) housing, I sugest you look at most large American cities!! Segregating people based on income, is a policy that failed misserably. I'm hopeful that the same mistakes aren't goung to be made in Canada.

Who are you responding to?
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