Waterfront Hub v2.0

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yup... and given that said discourse so far ranges from "meh" to "needs to be an actual hub first," they probably should've waited and gotten it right.

[dleung]

not sure what the point is of a "conversation piece" where the only conversation that can be had is that it's a silly idea. Not understanding the obsession with completely isolating the historic station. The further out the new towers are, the more it walls off the waterfront to every other building around it.

Was always a fan of one of the early proposals for Barangaroo in Sydney (ie buildings oriented perpendicular to the water, and a narrow iconic tower), despite ultimately losing out to the current scheme

[phesto]

Originally Posted by logan5

Vancouver is getting close to the 3 million mark, so maybe this a time around, an actual waterfront hub will develop. Interesting concept that befits a large city.

So Granville Square and PWC place towers are demolished as part of this fantasy? Lol.

I mean I guess the proposal looks better without them in there, but it is really just that - a fantasy.

[svlt]

Tough crowd here on SSP but it's credit to the background (critical urban design/planning lens) of the forumers here. Most everywhere else I've seen this it's been unanimous praise for the boldness of the vision.

I don't like the design either - it's a bit much - but asking the question of what they want to do with this space is exciting to think about.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Secondly, those trains underneath look as if they are in a big city
with a lot of commuter rail. Redesign the whole thing, make it elegant, and let's not get into delusions of grandeur.

I get future proofing the transit hub, but in what world will Vancouver ever need as much space dedicated to passenger rail as the renderings show? A train to Whistler, the WCE, a train to Abbotsford, and HSR to the USA would not need as many platforms and rails as there are in the renderings. I mean, the reason Paris and Frankfurt and Budapest have massive train stations is because they are true hubs with trains to major cities heading out in every direction from the stations.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I get future proofing the transit hub, but in what world will Vancouver ever need as much space dedicated to passenger rail as the renderings show? A train to Whistler, the WCE, a train to Abbotsford, and HSR to the USA would not need as many platforms and rails as there are in the renderings. I mean, the reason Paris and Frankfurt and Budapest have massive train stations is because they are true hubs with trains to major cities heading out in every direction from the stations.

It is only 4 platforms, much smaller than Paris/Frankfurt/Budapest. Comparable to a scaled down version of Union Station in Toronto.

We've got a long way to go before a second platform is even necessary though.

Edit: This would put us on par with Winnipeg's Union station which has 3 platforms & 8 tracks currently.

[GenWhy?]

I love everything about this version too. I loved the last version. Just working with an active railroad is a PITA. Even something that is just a new WCE and Expo interface / station and pathing system with a 21st Century pedway to the Seabus would be 500% a win.

Anyone know who owns the parking lot and Seabus terminal? I imagine a lease from the railroad

[mcj]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Even something that is just a new WCE and Expo interface / station and pathing system with a 21st Century pedway to the Seabus would be 500% a win.

Connecting the Canada and Expo lines would be a 500% win too and you wouldn't even need to encroach on the CPR yard.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by mcj

Connecting the Canada and Expo lines would be a 500% win too and you wouldn't even need to encroach on the CPR yard.

Oh man like a proper direct connection at the western end of the old building building via the Canada line tunnel to the Expo platform would be so much better.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Oh man like a proper direct connection at the western end of the old building building via the Canada line tunnel to the Expo platform would be so much better.

Exactly this, connect the WCE and Seabus to this direct connection and you have all the functionality of this proposal for less than $100M.

Also connect Vancouver City Centre/Granville again, but that's in the works with the Bay redevelopment iirc.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by svlt

Tough crowd here on SSP but it's credit to the background (critical urban design/planning lens) of the forumers here. Most everywhere else I've seen this it's been unanimous praise for the boldness of the vision.

I don't like the design either - it's a bit much - but asking the question of what they want to do with this space is exciting to think about.

I have a bold vision to tear down all of Vancouver and create a new urban fabric. Please pat me on the back.

[MIPS]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I wonder how many of you read the article...

No, we knew. Typically when DailyHive or Vancouver Is Awesome posts something about a new construction or a building design it's a concept drawing or some fantasy world structure they scraped off self-promoting blog.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I love everything about this version too. I loved the last version. Just working with an active railroad is a PITA. Even something that is just a new WCE and Expo interface / station and pathing system with a 21st Century pedway to the Seabus would be 500% a win.

Anyone know who owns the parking lot and Seabus terminal? I imagine a lease from the railroad

I think those are both Port of Vancouver properties. The uses that are permitted are quite limited - the Port operates under rules called 'letters patent', which sets out what can be developed on their land. It's why the only way the Pan Pacific and World Trade Centre offices could be developed was in conjunction with the cruise ship terminal. So under the current rules of engagement the big office on the waterfront couldn't be built. The Federal Government would have to approve any changes to the Port's operating rules.

I don't think CP own anything there now - they gradually sold off their Coal Harbour land through Marathon Developments, and sold the rail tracks to a Greg Kerfoot company when he was trying to squeeze the soccer stadium onto the site, but they have a long lease to locate their tracks and no restrictions on what they can park in the sidings, which is partly what sank the stadium idea, and would be an issue for any future project too.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I don't think CP own anything there now - they gradually sold off their Coal Harbour land through Marathon Developments, and sold the rail tracks to a Greg Kerfoot company when he was trying to squeeze the soccer stadium onto the site, but they have a long lease to locate their tracks and no restrictions on what they can park in the sidings, which is partly what sank the stadium idea, and would be an issue for any future project too.

Whitecaps own that strip of land in front of Granville Square as well:

https://council.vancouver.ca/20060627/documents/sc1.pdf

If you want to do fantasy rebuilds of the area.. I would create a new dock for cruise ships to the north. Land reclamation from the tip of the current Canada Place dock to somewhere near Centerm's expansion. Seabus/Skytrain would be a problem (maybe at least extend Expo line to the north) Have the railyard reconfigured next to the back side of Centerm. Then build new offices/retail/hotels on most of the reclaimed land/rail yards.

[CanSpice]

I for one am disappointed that this fantasy rendering didn't include a gondola to the North Shore across Burrard Inlet. That would fit in with all of the other fantastical elements to this rendering.

[djh]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Whitecaps own that strip of land in front of Granville Square as well:

https://council.vancouver.ca/20060627/documents/sc1.pdf

If you want to do fantasy rebuilds of the area.. I would create a new dock for cruise ships to the north. Land reclamation from the tip of the current Canada Place dock to somewhere near Centerm's expansion. Seabus/Skytrain would be a problem (maybe at least extend Expo line to the north) Have the railyard reconfigured next to the back side of Centerm. Then build new offices/retail/hotels on most of the reclaimed land/rail yards.

I mean, that area called the "rail yards" - it's not a loading area, it's not connected to the water , and it's not a throroughfare for the trains going on further west. There's really no reason for it to be exactly where it is, yet it is styming development plans for projects on that land - and presumably any new project north of it would have a few issues.

Since we're talking radical plans, why not relocate the rail yards to the land south of the helijet port is and the land that is currently CRAB park [EDIT: Actually, I think your idea is better - reclaiming land next to Centerm would move the rail yards completely nearer where they should be.]

Then, as you say, more land reclamation, to the north of these yards for a better organised terminus for all the modes - seabus, skytrain, west coast express, even Rocky Mountaineer and connections to the US, helijet, and a improved park project. Then the land where the rail tracks are currently could be properly developed.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Anything that involves telling CP what to do with stuff they want... is probably a bigger pipe dream than the OP is.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Guess who's back... back again...

Estimated $2.6 million cost for Vancouver's new Waterfront Station planning process

Another urban planning exercise could be initiated by the City of Vancouver later this year, specifically the Central Waterfront area of downtown Vancouver, which includes Waterfront Station and the railyard to the north...

...In a recent memo to Vancouver City Council, City of Vancouver staff states a governance group is in the process of being formed, comprised of the area’s property owners and key stakeholders. This includes TransLink, Transport Canada, Vancouver Fraser Port Authority, BC Ministry of Transportation, Tourism BC, Pavco (Vancouver Convention Centre), Canadian Pacific, Canadian National, VIA Rail, and GHD Developments.

Moreover, private landowners in the area have already contracted consultancy firms specializing in major infrastructure and development projects to advise and support the governance group, which could lead the effort.

According to City staff, the upcoming exercise to create the master plan is expected to cost $2.6 million over two years for City staff and consultancies. The planning process could launch later in 2024...

[jollyburger]

From November 2023

Staff will continue working with the governance group as it establishes its membership and
mandate, with the aim of delivering a Program Report to Council to formally launch the planning
program in line with the completion of Phase 2 of the governance process (i.e. in mid-2024).
This would align with the governance group formalizing its MOU, which will provide clarity on the
structure and agency of the project champion to inform and implement a Plan for the area. Of
note, the draft 2024 Operating Budget that has been developed for consideration by Council in
December does not include funding to advance the Central Waterfront planning process. Staff
estimate that the work program would extend over 24 months with a total cost of $2.6M to cover
staffing and consultancies over that timeframe. A commitment to this program would also need
to be balanced against other Council-directed initiatives and the work associated with
implementation of Provincial legislation aimed at increasing housing supply. Staff plan to deliver
a Council Briefing in early 2024 to provide further information and context for this upcoming
planning initiative.

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/2023-...update-rts.pdf

[griswold]

Very cool project. Doubt council has the fortitude to pursue making it happen though. Even if they do it probably wouldn’t be finished until 2044