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  #47461  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 4:29 PM
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^^ I feel like north pier in its current form is semi-useless, unless you have a nice yacht. I feel like Chicago could easily support a few small to mid-size cruise ships that could traverse the Great Lakes. Just need few hundred million to buy, refurbish and run 2-3 ships and extend north pier further into the lake and build a modest terminal to support the ships. No big deal
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  #47462  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 4:33 PM
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Also, found this on reddit today - comet over Chicago's skies


https://www.reddit.com/r/CityPorn/co..._over_chicago/

Shelbydiamondstar on IG and FB

The new Rush hospital building is in the foreground/far left
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  #47463  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:31 PM
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^Comet or very very good firework?
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  #47464  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:49 PM
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or E.T. ?
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  #47465  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 5:54 PM
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^Comet or very very good firework?
Comet NEOWISE; will be orbiting until 7/23
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/2020_F3_(NEOWISE)
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  #47466  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
They are constructing two new "outlot" buildings fronting 26th, one of them replacing La Baguette. The existing buildings on the east and south side will be re-skinned.

This is a tricky one, usually these retail centers are over-parked but this one clearly doesn't have enough. The lot is almost always full. I'm not sure the city will allow them to add more leasable SF without also adding parking. TOD not an option here. In lieu of more parking, the city should really make the developers pay for the segment of the Paseo trail that would run behind the center, maybe all the way from California to Kedzie, and stock the shopping center with bike racks. Obviously nobody's gonna bike to the grocery store but people will absolutely bike to a gym or a pharmacy if there's a safe, quiet trail right there.
Yeah, just from looking at google maps and street view that lot is packed with cars. I'd be happy with a bike oriented development though and the new out lots would surly increase traffic to the other shops.
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  #47467  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
^^ I feel like north pier in its current form is semi-useless, unless you have a nice yacht. I feel like Chicago could easily support a few small to mid-size cruise ships that could traverse the Great Lakes. Just need few hundred million to buy, refurbish and run 2-3 ships and extend north pier further into the lake and build a modest terminal to support the ships. No big deal
North Pier? You mean the River East Center?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pier_(Chicago)
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  #47468  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
North Pier? You mean the River East Center?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pier_(Chicago)
No, I mean the actual pier out in Lake Michigan (it's technically referred to as North Pier, just south of Navy Pier).
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  #47469  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 9:20 PM
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Curtain Hanger ?
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  #47470  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 3:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
I feel like Chicago could easily support a few small to mid-size cruise ships that could traverse the Great Lakes.
I give the city tours (by bus) to some of the groups that arrive on the existing Great Lakes cruise ships. I usually meet the groups down at Iroquois Landing on the Calumet River, quite a slog, and quite a security hassle to get in and out of. But once last summer they had docked at Navy Pier. I never quite found out what circumstances allowed it that one time, but not for the other voyages.

I think there are three cruise lines currently (in a normal year) doing Great Lakes cruises, and Viking is coming.

Not sure what you mean by "North Pier." The north lock structure? Or Dime Pier?
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  #47471  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 4:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I give the city tours (by bus) to some of the groups that arrive on the existing Great Lakes cruise ships. I usually meet the groups down at Iroquois Landing on the Calumet River, quite a slog, and quite a security hassle to get in and out of. But once last summer they had docked at Navy Pier. I never quite found out what circumstances allowed it that one time, but not for the other voyages.

I think there are three cruise lines currently (in a normal year) doing Great Lakes cruises, and Viking is coming.

Not sure what you mean by "North Pier." The north lock structure? Or Dime Pier?

How does the tour bus get to the rest of Chicago from there? That's a pretty hard to reach spot.
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  #47472  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 2:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I give the city tours (by bus) to some of the groups that arrive on the existing Great Lakes cruise ships. I usually meet the groups down at Iroquois Landing on the Calumet River, quite a slog, and quite a security hassle to get in and out of. But once last summer they had docked at Navy Pier. I never quite found out what circumstances allowed it that one time, but not for the other voyages.

I think there are three cruise lines currently (in a normal year) doing Great Lakes cruises, and Viking is coming.

Not sure what you mean by "North Pier." The north lock structure? Or Dime Pier?
I'm glad to hear about Viking - I was looking on google maps, and "North Pier" was listed for the thin east-west pier, just north of the Chicago Harbor locks and south of Polk Bros park at Navy Pier. I was initially confused as I worked in the old North Pier building many years ago, until I reversed and it assumed that the building was named after the pier.
My original point was about beefing up that same pier to allow for larger ships, which would cut out the need to do exactly what you described above, but I assume that the waters are perhaps not deep enough that close to the lakeshore (maybe I'm wrong).
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  #47473  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 2:48 PM
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Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
I'm glad to hear about Viking - I was looking on google maps, and "North Pier" was listed for the thin east-west pier, just north of the Chicago Harbor locks and south of Polk Bros park at Navy Pier. I was initially confused as I worked in the old North Pier building many years ago, until I reversed and it assumed that the building was named after the pier.
My original point was about beefing up that same pier to allow for larger ships, which would cut out the need to do exactly what you described above, but I assume that the waters are perhaps not deep enough that close to the lakeshore (maybe I'm wrong).
I believe Viking will not be sailing from Chicago, they will have pre and post cruise extensions to Chicago, but they are actually sailing from Milwaukee which was surprising to hear. I'm guessing partially because Chicago doesn't have a proper port for them to use in the city? I'd love to see them docking downtown somewhere
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  #47474  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 10:28 PM
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The tour buses have to be escorted in and out of Iroquois Landing, and sometimes we have to wait on a slow freight train at 95th. Sometimes the company will tell me to "meet the bus" there, and I have to inform them that even if I spend a couple hours on CTA to get to South Chicago, I can't walk in to that location.

Boat draft doesn't seem to be an issue at Navy Pier, which keeps a 23-foot channel clear. Remember actual US Navy ships call there every couple of years. The Great Lakes cruise boats are not all that large. Since real "salties" can and do come through the Welland Canal to reach Lake Calumet or Duluth-Superior, it would seem to be a matter of cruise demand, rather than lock size or bridge clearance.

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  #47475  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2020, 4:03 PM
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Navy Pier Flyover - 07/07/20

Looks like they are framing the new, wider deck for the trail along the lower level. The "tunnels" through the bridge houses are complete.

Also, I read a blurb somewhere that the lower level of the bridge was engineered to carry trains back in the 1930s? I guess that would explain why the bridge is so beefy, and why the lower deck is divided into three roadways instead of two. I'm not sure what kind of trains, maybe they thought the Illinois Central would want to run boxcars to Streeterville warehouses or to boats at Navy Pier?



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Last edited by ardecila; Jul 8, 2020 at 4:19 PM.
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  #47476  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 12:16 AM
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are those support cables temp or are they going to use this bridge to film Ninja Warrior?

Last edited by Donnie77; Jul 9, 2020 at 12:16 AM. Reason: edit
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  #47477  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Also, I read a blurb somewhere that the lower level of the bridge was engineered to carry trains back in the 1930s? I guess that would explain why the bridge is so beefy, and why the lower deck is divided into three roadways instead of two. I'm not sure what kind of trains, maybe they thought the Illinois Central would want to run boxcars to Streeterville warehouses or to boats at Navy Pier?
I have never heard this. Do you remember where you read that?
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  #47478  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 3:13 AM
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I thought I had once read that too, but in the original project description for the bridge it only speaks of allowing clearances for a potential roadway at The “mezzanine” level of the bridge. Raised high enough to clear railroad track at ground level but low enough to easily connect to commercial structures.

https://historicbridges.org/truss/us...rdriveplan.pdf
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  #47479  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 3:49 AM
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TIL. For decades, I've confidently spoken of that lower level having been intended for railroad use—even as I note a few minutes later that double-leaf bascule bridges never proved very suitable for heavy steam locomotives. I probably "learned" that from the late John LaPlante back in the early 1980s when he was reconfiguring the S-curve, and finally putting that lower level to use. But I just dug out a speech given by the Park District's Assistant Chief Engineer to the Illinois Society of Engineers in 1937, and indeed it says "this [future] mezzanine level will serve truck traffic for any future air right development over the [railroad] property."

There was a railroad bridge near here for a few years around 1900, connecting the North Western on the north bank with the Illinois Central on the south bank. When the War Department forced removal of most of Chicago's swing bridges, the railroads apparently didn't think it important enough to rebuild.
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  #47480  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2020, 3:57 AM
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I thought I had once read that too, but in the original project description for the bridge it only speaks of allowing clearances for a potential roadway at The “mezzanine” level of the bridge. Raised high enough to clear railroad track at ground level but low enough to easily connect to commercial structures.

https://historicbridges.org/truss/us...rdriveplan.pdf
It's in there. There is a lot of reference to providing adequate clearance at ground level for tracks to pass beneath the mezzanine on what is today the Spire site, but the Commercial Club's Harbor Plan also proposed a rail connection across the river from the Illinois Central to Navy Pier. You can see it dotted in some of the drawings as "Future Harbor Railroad Connection" (PDF page 81).

Looks like it would have run in the east section of the lower deck, with the west and central sections for "commercial traffic" - trucks, etc. It makes sense, why else divide the lower deck into 3 parts rather than two, like the Michigan Ave bridge? The drawings appear to show a single track connection, but it looks like there was room for two tracks should the need arise. I can't say whether the bridge as built could support railroad traffic, certainly the design evolved and they may have reduced the design loads. Ed Bennett's Neoclassical design became Art Deco, etc.

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Last edited by ardecila; Jul 9, 2020 at 4:12 AM.
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