Atlantic Canada airport thread

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by wave46

PAL Airlines will happily take those flyers internally in Newfoundland. I don't think AC wants to be in that business anymore, not even by proxy of a regional airline.

I also suspect AC doesn't really care to route people through Halifax - it's Toronto/Montreal or bust. Porter can pick up the remainder going to Ottawa when it starts operations again.

AC might be trying to shake the federal government down for a subsidy on their regional routes, as speculated in the Canadian Airport Thread. If it doesn't work, they've not lost much. COVID gives them an avenue to get out of a business they don't really want to be in but have previously maintained for PR reasons.

I wonder if PAL would consider expanding operations to the Maritimes? There could be an opening here for them now - the old niche formerly occupied by EPA.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I wonder if PAL would consider expanding operations to the Maritimes? There could be an opening here for them now - the old niche formerly occupied by EPA.

Definitely. Same could be said for Pascan. They made a feeble attempt to provide a link to St Johns a number of years ago but it was poorly thought out and marketed. I see both carriers picking up some of the slack when traffic starts to pick up again.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by wave46

I also suspect AC doesn't really care to route people through Halifax - it's Toronto/Montreal or bust.

The bigger factor in the Maritimes at least is that these places are all within easy driving distance of each other. Moncton is a 2h15 drive to YHZ. That flight is not really competitive with driving.

This is an even bigger factor when people may be worried about flying and prefer to spend time in a private vehicle.

[J81]

Originally Posted by someone123

The bigger factor in the Maritimes at least is that these places are all within easy driving distance of each other. Moncton is a 2h15 drive to YHZ. That flight is not really competitive with driving.

This is an even bigger factor when people may be worried about flying and prefer to spend time in a private vehicle.

There is virtually zero O&D traffic on any of the maritime routes to YHZ. Those flights are for connecting traffic onward from YHZ. If you live in Fredericton and have to get to St. John’s the only viable way to get there is through YHZ. Hence why the times of these flights were made for connections.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

There is virtually zero O&D traffic on any of the maritime routes to YHZ. Those flights are for connecting traffic onward from YHZ. If you live in Fredericton and have to get to St. John’s the only viable way to get there is through YHZ. Hence why the times of these flights were made for connections.

Yeah, unless you live within an hours drive of YHZ, travel from the Maritimes to Newfoundland has just become infinitely worse.

For most points west, I think most people just make connections in Toronto or Montreal anyway, but for St. John's, connecting in Halifax makes more sense.

For somebody from Freddy now, if you want to fly to St. John's without taking a 4.5 hour drive to YHZ first, you'll have to make connections in Toronto!

[ghYHZ]

A tribute to Bathurst ZBF that just lost their Air Canada Express flights.....their only scheduled service after opening a terminal expansion last summer to get ready for the Q400. Sad!

Air Nova.....then Jazz and now Air Canada Express began service to ZBF 31 years ago in July 1989. At that time....Air Atlantic / Canadi>n still served northern New Brunswick but through Charlo Airport (75 km north) and at Chatham (Miramichi) 75 km south......a service originally begun by EPA.

Here's the first Timetable....effective July 5, 1989

[theshark]

Hopefully when the airlines do better, service will be back! It was nice going and getting back from vacation and only have a 10 min drive

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Yeah, unless you live within an hours drive of YHZ, travel from the Maritimes to Newfoundland has just become infinitely worse.

For most points west, I think most people just make connections in Toronto or Montreal anyway, but for St. John's, connecting in Halifax makes more sense.

For somebody from Freddy now, if you want to fly to St. John's without taking a 4.5 hour drive to YHZ first, you'll have to make connections in Toronto!

4.5 hours? It's consistently a 3.5 hour drive and I've done it in three flat before (granted, that was at speeds that were less than legal).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OliverD

4.5 hours? It's consistently a 3.5 hour drive and I've done it in three flat before (granted, that was at speeds that were less than legal).

Well, I live close to the TCH in Moncton, and YHZ is over two hour for me. The trip to Freddy is nearly exactly two hours, and I drive a pretty consistent 120 km/hr on cruise control. As such, I could go as low as a four hour drive from Freddy to YHZ, but if you did it in three hours, I would assume you must have been driving at least 160 km/hr.

No speeding tickets yet????

[Marty_Mcfly]

If PAL wanted to expand into a regional airline I say go for it. Anything to increase ridership so fares could come down. Round trip from St. John's to Deer Lake, if you're flexible enough with dates to get the cheapest days, is still near 500 dollars. For that price I can think of a lot better places than Deer Lake to travel

[Freddypop]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I live close to the TCH in Moncton, and YHZ is over two hour for me. The trip to Freddy is nearly exactly two hours, and I drive a pretty consistent 120 km/hr on cruise control. As such, I could go as low as a four hour drive from Freddy to YHZ, but if you did it in three hours, I would assume you must have been driving at least 160 km/hr.

No speeding tickets yet????

I've travelled to Halifax numerous times from Freddy and can confirm that it is under 4 hours passing by YHZ...3:45

[Bishop2047]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

If PAL wanted to expand into a regional airline I say go for it. Anything to increase ridership so fares could come down. Round trip from St. John's to Deer Lake, if you're flexible enough with dates to get the cheapest days, is still near 500 dollars. For that price I can think of a lot better places than Deer Lake to travel

PAL would be wise to fill in some of the gaps, and expand over the next year. I would love to support an East Coast company.

I do not know much about their schedule pre-COVID but I know that they utilized Charlo in NB.

Does PAL utilized the "milk run" mentality, and start and finish in hubs?

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

PAL would be wise to fill in some of the gaps, and expand over the next year. I would love to support an East Coast company.

I do not know much about their schedule pre-COVID but I know that they utilized Charlo in NB.

Does PAL utilized the "milk run" mentality, and start and finish in hubs?

They do like to finish the day with their planes either in St. John's or Happy Valley-Goose Bay. They really don't want to finish a route in Blanc Sablon so they'll huff it back to Goose Bay for the night.

Some routes are direct (with non-direct available), whereas some other locations are not.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Freddypop

I've travelled to Halifax numerous times from Freddy and can confirm that it is under 4 hours passing by YHZ...3:45

Some are allergic to the idea that YHZ may function to some degree as a regional airport for the Maritimes or Atlantic hub.

If you are originating in the Fredericton area, chances are you will need a car or a ride. And if you are connecting in YHZ or YYZ you will need to add 1-3 hours for that extra hop. So that 3:45 drive to YHZ would not represent a complete net loss of time and other expenses. It represents an extra 1-2 hours of travel each way, which may be more pleasant than time spent on a plane depending on conditions (certainly during a pandemic). It might be cheaper too. And there's an advantage to having your car in another city.

The concept of each city of 100,000 or so spaced an hour or two drive from the next having its own airport with a variety of regular interprovincial or international flights is not something you see much around North America. Even Canadian cities like Hamilton and Quebec City have pretty low traffic levels and limited connections. I wonder if they have much service right now.

If the Maritimes had a decent transportation network there would be train connections that go 200 km/h between the main cities, and it would take about 2 hours to get from Fredericton to YHZ. Flying that distance would not make much sense.

[BlackYear]

The Air Canada CRJ-900LR arriving from Toronto to Moncton airport on its daily run. I'd be curious to know how many passengers come in daily during these covid times.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by someone123

Some are allergic to the idea that YHZ may function to some degree as a regional airport for the Maritimes or Atlantic hub.

I think some of it comes down to that YHZ isn't a fantastic connection point due to the limited number of destinations it serves on Air Canada.

Aside from London-Heathrow, Boston, St. John's and some sun destinations (OK, New York via United counts too on Star Alliance), one is generally flying west or southwest in North America, making Toronto and Montreal better connections.

To Europe adding a couple of hours sucks via Toronto/Montreal, but you'd probably be making a connection in London if you're going anywhere else. Given the disdain I've heard about connecting at Heathrow (I've not tried it myself) you might be better off in Canada.

So, you have a tiny market (remember: they were flying 19-seat aircraft on these routes in Atlantic Canada), so unless they're serious premium passengers, the money isn't there.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, I live close to the TCH in Moncton, and YHZ is over two hour for me. The trip to Freddy is nearly exactly two hours, and I drive a pretty consistent 120 km/hr on cruise control. As such, I could go as low as a four hour drive from Freddy to YHZ, but if you did it in three hours, I would assume you must have been driving at least 160 km/hr.

No speeding tickets yet????

Door to door it is 404 km for me. 98% of that is on the TCH.

3.5 hours translates to an average of 115 km/h which is generally easily doable.

3 hours flat is 135 km/h, which is obviously high but I landed at YHZ near midnight so the drive home was with almost zero traffic.

[Taeolas]

Well, someone's talking about closing one of the airports again. He's suggesting the Saint John airport should be closed and funding redirected towards improving the link between Freddy and SJ, and improving links to the US.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Well, someone's talking about closing one of the airports again. He's suggesting the Saint John airport should be closed and funding redirected towards improving the link between Freddy and SJ, and improving links to the US.

I don't know why AC really cares about whether an airport is open or not.

Serve it or don't. The only thing closing an airport does is make AC not look like the bad guy when they do cut service, which is maybe the point.

[J81]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Door to door it is 404 km for me. 98% of that is on the TCH.

3.5 hours translates to an average of 115 km/h which is generally easily doable.

3 hours flat is 135 km/h, which is obviously high but I landed at YHZ near midnight so the drive home was with almost zero traffic.

So you were clipping along at 135kmh in the middle of the night? Smart 🤦🏻♂️