DENVER | Transportation Thread

[The Dirt]

Except Denver doesn't have BRT.

[Cirrus]

I've seen BRT proponents cite the 16th Street Mall shuttle as one of the country's most successful BRT projects. It's not BRT, but to the kind of BRT proponents who only like BRT as a means of preventing spending money on rail, that doesn't much matter.

[PLANSIT]

16th is rubber-tire streetcar in exclusive lane/ROW. If it were electrified it would be the highest ridership streetcar in the country.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Except Denver doesn't have BRT.

Always happy to help shed some light including the history.

• Video Link

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Always happy to help shed some light including the history.

Dirt's point is that FrequentFlyer isn't true BRT.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Dirt's point is that FrequentFlyer isn't true BRT.

Ah hah. Actually, I"m not sure that Fresno's BRT is true BRT either. Neither does it seems that Metro Transit's growing system of BRT routes in Minneapolis is true BRT. Yet all three cities refer to them as BRT routes so that's all I can go by. I guess we can dream of true BRT some day in the future.

[The Dirt]

Yep, the FF is enhanced bus, not BRT... but since enhanced bus is now almost universally called BRT, true BRT needs a rebranding. How about HSB (high speed bus) or AFT (American Freedom Transports)?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

16th is rubber-tire streetcar in exclusive lane/ROW. If it were electrified it would be the highest ridership streetcar in the country.

There's more to BRT than simply the right-of-way. The mall shuttle isn't rapid because it stops way too often. If we eliminated all but 3 or 4 of its stops then it would become BRT.

That said, the mall shuttle is great. Just because it's not BRT doesn't mean it's not awesome. It's simply serving a different purpose.

Finally, the mall shuttle is definitely impressive and is easily higher than any *new* US streetcars, but last I checked SF's N Judah line is a little higher, and Philly and Boston are debatable depending how you count their branches.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

There's more to BRT than simply the right-of-way. The mall shuttle isn't rapid because it stops way too often. If we eliminated all but 3 or 4 of its stops then it would become BRT.

That said, the mall shuttle is great. Just because it's not BRT doesn't mean it's not awesome. It's simply serving a different purpose.

I'm also saying 16th is not BRT. It's rubber-tire streetcar in exclusive ROW. It's unique.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Finally, the mall shuttle is definitely impressive and is easily higher than any *new* US streetcars, but last I checked SF's N Judah line is a little higher, and Philly and Boston are debatable depending how you count their branches.

Not on a per mile basis. Not even close.

[pdxstreetcar]

In Portland there was recently some very serious study, planning and analysis of creating a 'BRT' corridor, after about a year+ of work planning it (outreach, working with stakeholders) they found the new bus as BRT would be much slower than the current bus line and scrapped the project:

‘Rapid’ bus plan on Powell-Division stalls after it turns out not to be rapid
http://bikeportland.org/2016/03/18/r...e-rapid-178130

As I mentioned in my thread about visiting Denver, I'm planning to go up to Fort Collins as it seems they have one of the very few true BRT lines in the country and in a small city no less (though WTF no Sunday service, I guess that shows what a small city it is). I'm quite interested in seeing this project. I sort of prefer using the term 'busway project' because I know what I getting which is a significant portion of busway/bus lane. The rest of the BRT features are good and help but minor.

[TakeFive]

Are we now in the Extended Shakeout period?

RTD A Line suffers operational difficulties; ‘severe’ delays expected
POSTED 5:08 AM, AUGUST 17, 2016, BY CHUCK HICKEY, Fox31 Denver

RIDER ALERTS: LINE A

SERVICE DISRUPTION
Effective: August 17, 2016 4:45AM - 12:00PM
Due to operational difficulties at York, Clayton, Steele, and Dahlia Crossings, we are experiencing 15-30 minute delays on the University of Colorado A Line service. Please allow extra travel time during the next few hours as we work diligently to fix the issue. We apologize for any inconvenience.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

In Portland there was recently some very serious study, planning and analysis of creating a 'BRT' corridor, after about a year+ of work planning it (outreach, working with stakeholders) they found the new bus as BRT would be much slower than the current bus line and scrapped the project:

‘Rapid’ bus plan on Powell-Division stalls after it turns out not to be rapid
http://bikeportland.org/2016/03/18/r...e-rapid-178130

Very interesting...

“What we’re all finding is that having a BRT that is mostly sharing the roadway is extremely complicated.”
— Elizabeth Mros-O’Hara, Metro

[austingood]

Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar

As I mentioned in my thread about visiting Denver, I'm planning to go up to Fort Collins as it seems they have one of the very few true BRT lines in the country and in a small city no less (though WTF no Sunday service, I guess that shows what a small city it is). I'm quite interested in seeing this project. I sort of prefer using the term 'busway project' because I know what I getting which is a significant portion of busway/bus lane. The rest of the BRT features are good and help but minor.

For a city the size of Fort Collins ('bout 160,000) MAX is a great system. Ridership is over 5,000 on weekdays when CSU is in session. There are a couple TOD esq projects that have been completed (MAX Flats at Mulberry Station, Prospect Station at Prospect Station, Old Town Flats at the Downtown Transit Center) with more in the pipeline. Notably the vacant K-Mart at Drake Station is owned by Kroger and is looking at getting redeveloped in the near future- the city is currently trying to convince them to build more densely. As you ride you'll see there is a ton of redevelopment potential. Here's the city's Midtown Plan if you'd like to sneak a peak at what they hope the corridor will develop into.

Edit: Also, yes, the lack of Sunday services sucks. There really isn't a good excuse to invest $90 million into a corridor and then not provide service on Sundays.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by austingood

For a city the size of Fort Collins ('bout 160,000) MAX is a great system. Ridership is over 5,000 on weekdays when CSU is in session. There are a couple TOD esq projects that have been completed (MAX Flats at Mulberry Station, Prospect Station at Prospect Station, Old Town Flats at the Downtown Transit Center) with more in the pipeline. Notably the vacant K-Mart at Drake Station is owned by Kroger and is looking at getting redeveloped in the near future- the city is currently trying to convince them to build more densely. As you ride you'll see there is a ton of redevelopment potential. Here's the city's Midtown Plan if you'd like to sneak a peak at what they hope the corridor will develop into.

Edit: Also, yes, the lack of Sunday services sucks. There really isn't a good excuse to invest $90 million into a corridor and then not provide service on Sundays.

Ft. Collins implemented TOD zoning near the MAX line (Mason Corridor) several years back, so there shouldn't be any "convincing" developers to build more densely, the TOD zoning should mandate that.

[austingood]

The Fort Collins TOD overlay puts mandates on things like street frontage and public spaces but doesn't mandate minimum density for a project. The standard for minimum height is 20'.

[taylor23]

Interesting story about the problems the A line has been having..

http://www.cpr.org/news/story/whats-...-rtds-line-dia

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Not on a per mile basis. Not even close.

Haha. Fair enough.

[Denver Dweller]

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/08/17...transit-users/

[TakeFive]

Holy sh*t; this is sounding impressive
Don't take if from me; take it from Magic Johnson.

"NBA legend Magic Johnson is star attraction in pitch for DIA deal"
Aug 17, 2016 by Cathy Proctor - Denver Business Journal

Chris Butler, Ferrovial’s project director for the Great Hall project, said the Great Hall’s existing chaotic traffic patterns are “a fantastic opportunity to make sure that the interior of the building is reflective of the quality of the exterior of the building.”

Butler said the team’s plans include “a stunning new plaza” and “world-class shopping.”

What is Magic Johnson's role?
It appears he made the majority of the presentation.

NBA superstar Earvin “Magic” Johnson — in Denver on Wednesday to talk to city council members about the proposed overhaul of the main terminal at Denver International Airport — outlined his more than 30 years of business experience in the city.

He remembered coming to the city with his Los Angeles Lakers to play in the old McNichols Sports Arena and “now I’m here in a suit and tie."

Johnson played 13 years with the Lakers, netting five NBA championships, before retiring in the 1990s to be a businessman.

He recalled the team staying at the Brown Palace hotel downtown, and “after 8 or 9 p.m., you couldn’t get a meal in downtown — now it’s booming.”

Who is the international consortium?

The international consortium is led by the airports division of Spain’s Ferrovial SA, which operates London’s Heathrow Airport and three others in the United Kingdom, and its equity partners: Denver-based Saunders Construction, one of Colorado’s biggest construction companies; and JLC Loop Capital Partners,

What role does Magic Johnson Enterprises have?

Executives from Ferrovial and Saunders also spoke to council members, outlining their experience and commitment to the project, but attention focused on Johnson as he explained what his company will bring to the project.

The basketball legend spoke as an equity member of the team selected by DIA in June to start negotiations on a public-private partnership to do the overhaul.

JLC Loop Capital Partners is an infrastructure fund Johnson and partners created “to take advantage of the development opportunities nationally,” he said in a May 9 resignation letter to the CEO of Square Inc.

Johnson was a board member at the mobile payments company, but said he needed to resign the seat in order to concentrate on JLC Loop Capital, which raised $1.3 billion during the first quarter 2016.

This is clearly along the lines of what Kim Day has envisioned. I like the potential synergies with Gaylord Rockies Resort which has already booked a good amount of business for 2019. What a nice dinner and shopping opportunity for those guests if this DIA renovation happens.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

This is clearly along the lines of what Kim Day has envisioned. I like the potential synergies with Gaylord Rockies Resort which has already booked a good amount of business for 2019. What a nice dinner and shopping opportunity for those guests if this DIA renovation happens.

What a wondrous fantasy. Don't see how that's going to happen as the DIA renovation will sterilize the Great Hall meaning you'll have to go through TSA screening first to get to it. The only experience Gaylord patrons will have with terminal, let alone Denver, will be walking through it on the way to the private shuttle to take them to that prison- like resort.