Trillium Line (O-Train) Updates

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am really surprised (and skeptical) about the price on the grade separation of the Ellwood Diamond.

When will the Trillium Line shut down for this? And for hour long? This is not a one day project.

Or is this the cost of just studying it?

I do not know how you can expect people to use the Trillium Line when it shuts down so often.

I suspect we'll see another summer shutdown next year for the Carleton and Walkley projects, and perhaps the signalling project as well.

The cost for the Ellwood diamond grade separation must just be for a study.

The funding announcement also includes $20M for 2 new trainsets... could those be for the Trillium line as well? Perhaps they are pre-ordering for the extension? Or maybe they are extra Confederation Line trains...

[McC]

Jon Willing ‏@JonathanWilling
Mayor Watson says the Trillium Line funding from feds isn't to do what should have been done on the recent upgrade. Eye to Stage 2, he says.

Is the closest thing to an explanation I've been able to find. Let me know if you can make heads or tales of it, I find the comment inscrutable.

[lrt's friend]

Agreed. Yet another reason why the southern extension should be delayed until they can figure out how best to fix this mess. The Trillium line was great as an affordable pilot project, but the problem is they are trying to grow it too much without re-evaluating the fundamentals.

They upgraded the Trillium Line specifically to handle all the downtown bound passengers that would switch to it during the Confederation Line construction. This sudden surge of passengers also was the reason why stations at Gladstone and Walkley were deferred. Obviously, this surge did not occur and that was predictable.

The experts have shown a laughable lack of common sense.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

When will the Trillium Line shut down for this? And for how long? This is not a one day project.

Trillium line shouldn't have any shutdowns. Grade separation projects on the VIA tracks for Greenbank and the Hospital Link didn't require any rail closures.

[PHrenetic]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Trillium line shouldn't have any shutdowns. Grade separation projects on the VIA tracks for Greenbank and the Hospital Link didn't require any rail closures.

Good day....
but those diversions had manoevering room and space to divert while they worked. The Trillium line is extremely constrained at those pinch points. If PROPERLY done, a 2 month closure would be faster and cheaper, if the end result was GUARANTEED to work properly. Yeah, I know - faint hope. Still.
Thanks.

[1overcosc]

Well, let's take a look at it:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.37515.../data=!3m1!1e3

A temporary diversion of the VIA tracks a little bit to the west could easily be built, allowing for a new bridge structure to be built for VIA to pass over Trillium.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

a new bridge structure to be built for VIA to pass over Trillium.

Optimally the Brookfield Pathway would be re-routed to travel under the new overpass. Also, the overpass should be designed to allow for double tracking of both lines in the future.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Optimally the Brookfield Pathway would be re-routed to travel under the new overpass. Also, the overpass should be designed to allow for double tracking of both lines in the future.

Surely, they wouldn't make that error, to not allow for future double tracking.

[McC]

surely.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Surely, they wouldn't make that error, to not allow for future double tracking.

You know what they say. Don't ass-u-me.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day...
Thanks to 1overcosc.
I had misremembered all the other far tighter pinchpoints.
Yes, this one has enough room for the same as at Belfast Road.
A concern for here though is....
given that VIA passes over Trillium / Trillium passes under VIA,
will they have to regrade either or both of under the Airport Parkway or over the T-Way.
Looks says the Airport Parkway / Trillium remains as is,
and that the T-Way / Trillium would best be inverted. Opinions ?
Thanks.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Well, let's take a look at it:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.37515.../data=!3m1!1e3

A temporary diversion of the VIA tracks a little bit to the west could easily be built, allowing for a new bridge structure to be built for VIA to pass over Trillium.

I would think it would be simpler and cheaper to build a structure such that the Trillium line would pass over the VIA line. As I understand it, the requirements for light rail bridges are significantly less onerous than those for heavy rail, and the approaches for a light rail bridge can be at a steeper grade and therefore shorter.

[TransitZilla]

I recall there being some discussion about this during the old N-S LRT project and I was able to find this blurb in the Council report when the contract was awarded back in 2006:

Rail Underpass instead of Overpass. The VIA Rail crossing south of Heron, shown as an overpass in the EA, will be changed to an LRT underpass of both the VIA Rail track and the South-East Transitway, which will be re-aligned to accommodate the change. This reduces the cost by converting the 7 metre high fills into 5 metre deep cuts, thereby eliminating the need for early construction work to deal with difficult soil conditions and improving construction efficiency. From a visual perspective, the underpass will have less impact on the adjacent community.

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...%20English.htm

I wonder if that is still the plan or if they are going back to the drawing board and looking at all options again.

[lrt's friend]

This reduces the cost by converting the 7 metre high fills into 5 metre deep cuts,

Either way, we are talking about major changes to this location, which will require significant distances of regrading to lead up to an underpass or overpass. A lot of track will have to be relocated to maintain service during construction.

[roger1818]

An "an LRT underpass of both the VIA Rail track and the South-East Transitway" would kill two birds with one stone as the transitway overpass is only wide enough for single track. With this in place, they could extend the siding north of Walkley all the way to Confederation station (the Airport Parkway underpass looks wide enough as shown here). They might have to move the platform further south to allow room for a switch south of Heron (its underpass definitely isn't wide enough for double track, and it would be expensive to fix).

Regardless, this upgrade would allow for much greater operational flexibility.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

An "an LRT underpass of both the VIA Rail track and the South-East Transitway" would kill two birds with one stone as the transitway overpass is only wide enough for single track. With this in place, they could extend the siding north of Walkley all the way to Confederation station (the Airport Parkway underpass looks wide enough as shown here). They might have to move the platform further south to allow room for a switch south of Heron (its underpass definitely isn't wide enough for double track, and it would be expensive to fix).

Regardless, this upgrade would allow for much greater operational flexibility.

Looking at the location. A 5 meter cut for a Trillium Line underpass at the Ellwood Diamond will require the redesign of the Transitway (probably convert from underpass to overpass, rebuild the Sawmill Creek bridge and the recently completed multi-use pathway at this location. This will be a very complicated project. I am not sure how this can be accomplished efficiently without complete closure of the Trillium Line. A temporary relocation of the Trillium Line means construction of a number of temporary bridges. I question how feasible a permanent relocation of the Trillium Line would be given the complicated web of roads, rail lines and waterways at this location.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day, all....from OCTranspo :
-Quote-
Construction at O-Train Trillium Line stations starting Fall 2016
The location of station entrances, walkways, fare vending machine and PRESTO readers at O-Train stations may shift temporarily while we begin construction on the structures to house future fare gates along the Trillium Line. The fare gates are part of our new modernized fare system, coming in 2017. The O-Train will continue to serve all stations. Please obey all signage and be careful around the construction site.

The construction will begin in late September 2016. The following stations will be affected:
Greenboro
Carling
Carleton
Confederation Heights
Bayview Station will not undergo fare control construction at this time. The future Bayview station, being constructed as part of the Confederation Line project, will include fare gates for both O-Train lines.
-EndQuote-
http://www.octranspo.com/about-octra...ws#news-169643

hummmnnnn... a bit behind original schedule......
They were supposed to have installed these thingies at 2015Q4 for testing and bugfix through 2016 for full installation-2017 / implementation-2018 on the Confederation line.
ah well.... toys will be toys.

[1overcosc]

I wonder how this is going to work with the phase out of legacy fare media. They just stopped student paper passes. Adult paper passes are going to stop in June 2017, and Senior & Community passes are going to stop in August 2017, while paper tickets will stop in October 2017.

They can't activate the gates until the legacy fare media is out of the system... yet they're starting construction now. They'll probably be done by the winter.. so for 2017 are we going to have a situation where ticket and paper pass holders are barred from using the O-Train? If so, you'd think they would have given O-Train users more of a heads up, so they can make the switch earlier.

[PHrenetic]

Hiyo... well, you could not use cash or tickets on the Trillium Line anyway;
you had to tap your Presto Card or buy a PoP at a vending machine. So,
in effect, this already was the beginning of the cross-over.
EnJoy.

[On Edge]

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day, all....from OCTranspo :
-Quote-
Construction at O-Train Trillium Line stations starting Fall 2016
The location of station entrances, walkways, fare vending machine and PRESTO readers at O-Train stations may shift temporarily while we begin construction on the structures to house future fare gates along the Trillium Line. The fare gates are part of our new modernized fare system, coming in 2017. The O-Train will continue to serve all stations. Please obey all signage and be careful around the construction site.

The construction will begin in late September 2016. The following stations will be affected:
Greenboro
Carling
Carleton
Confederation Heights
Bayview Station will not undergo fare control construction at this time. The future Bayview station, being constructed as part of the Confederation Line project, will include fare gates for both O-Train lines.
-EndQuote-
http://www.octranspo.com/about-octra...ws#news-169643

hummmnnnn... a bit behind original schedule......
They were supposed to have installed these thingies at 2015Q4 for testing and bugfix through 2016 for full installation-2017 / implementation-2018 on the Confederation line.
ah well.... toys will be toys.

For a fleeting moment I expected to see Gladstone and Walkley on that list. Still hard to understand why not.