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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 4:15 AM
wwmiv wwmiv is online now
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Houston is not more diverse than NYC or L.A.
https://wallethub.com/edu/most-diverse-cities/12690/
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Houston is not more diverse than NYC or L.A.
Houston is certainly more diverse than LA, which is about as diverse as Chicago. New York is the most diverse of those four. I just saw an article earlier this week that analyzed large cities by how likely 2 people selected at random would be different races. I’ll try to find it but forget the outlet right now
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Cleveland (city proper) might actually surpass NYC (city proper) in % PR. I find that amazing. NYC was 8.8% PR in 2010, but that % has probably dropped.
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
I suppose one can speak of a "Caribbean Hispanic east" that's comprised of the Northeast, Cleveland and Florida. Dominicans seem to be in places where the PR population was significant already but are far more limited to a few places.
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Fits my theory: not on I-95=has Mexican Americans as a large share of the Latino population
The Puerto Rican presence still is there west of I-95 in many places in the northeast though. Between Cleveland and NYC/the east coast, there's still the presence in upstate NY and parts of PA still inland from the coast too.



There's still a big gap between that northeast Puerto Rican area and Florida though with the mid-Atlantic.

Also, in some ways the Puerto Rican population map for some reason seems to be similar to the Jewish population trend in the 20th century with NYC and its metro as the gateway (among the earliest "immigrants") as well as to places in the Great Lakes like Cleveland and Chicago, with a later rise in population to Florida (especially internal migration from NYC moving outward). The sizeable Puerto Rican population in Chicago actually was originally founded by NYC Puerto Ricans too rather than Puerto Ricans directly from the island.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:00 AM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
Mexican culture here has also corrupted hot dogs with a so-called "mother-in-law" that is like creating a chili-dog out of a tamale in place of a frank.
Eh, the mother in law is more a product of Chicago's white ethnic culture, and the Tom Tom tamales that go in it are very unlike Mexican tamales. It's likely that black migrants from the Mississippi Delta actually brought tamales to Chicago before any Mexicans ever arrived here. White-ethnic hot-dog stand owners then adapted the Mississippi recipe for the relatively blander Polish/Irish/Greek palate.

Good luck finding a mother-in-law sold by any actual Latino-owned business.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
The Puerto Rican presence still is there west of I-95 in many places in the northeast though. Between Cleveland and NYC/the east coast, there's still the presence in upstate NY and parts of PA still inland from the coast too.
I never said that Puerto Rican populations don’t exist off of I-95, just that Mexican populations really don’t exist ON I-95 outside of NYC whereas they are ubiquitous in major cities off of I-95, even in the east (Atlanta, Tampa, etc).

In fact:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Where Latinos exist, they are largely a mix between Mexican and another group or just outright Mexican, in any city that is not on the I-95 corridor:

All major non-western cities that are not on the I-95 corridor:

Atlanta: Mexican, Central American particularly El Salvadoreno, and Caribbean
Cleveland: Puerto Rican and Mexican
Chicago: Mexican, Puerto Rican, Brazilian, others
Milwaukee: Mexican
Indianapolis: Mexican
Columbus: Mexican and Puerto Rican
Detroit: Mexican (huge dating back to the 20s and 40s, one of the hardest hit by forced repatriation during the 20s and 30s)
Minneapolis: Mexican and Ecuadorian
Kansas City: Mexican and Central American, particularly Guatemalan and El Salvadoreno
Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Cincinnati have negligible Hispanic/Latino populations.
Milwaukee also has a Puerto Rican population. All Latino groups have many pockets across space, I just find it intriguing that for Mexican Americans in particular I-95 seems to be a very important boundary:

On I-95: not many Mexican Americans, save for NYC; off I-95: Mexican Americans (with or without other Western Hemisphere Romance language minority groups).
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Also, in some ways the Puerto Rican population map for some reason seems to be similar to the Jewish population trend in the 20th century with NYC and its metro as the gateway (among the earliest "immigrants") as well as to places in the Great Lakes like Cleveland and Chicago, with a later rise in population to Florida (especially internal migration from NYC moving outward).
Postwar Puerto Rican migrants to NYC often worked in the garment industry, replacing Jews.

And the Bronx, probably the most Jewish place on earth in the 1940's, filled with garmentos, then became the most Puerto Rican place on earth outside of PR. Almost all the former Jewish neighborhoods transitioned to Puerto Rican (and are now transitioning to Dominican, Mexican and West African, especially in West Bronx).

One unfortunate difference is that PRs haven't had the same incredible education-centered upward economic mobility.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 1:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Eh, the mother in law is more a product of Chicago's white ethnic culture, and the Tom Tom tamales that go in it are very unlike Mexican tamales. It's likely that black migrants from the Mississippi Delta actually brought tamales to Chicago before any Mexicans ever arrived here. White-ethnic hot-dog stand owners then adapted the Mississippi recipe for the relatively blander Polish/Irish/Greek palate.

Good luck finding a mother-in-law sold by any actual Latino-owned business.
tamales have been a thing in st louis for many decades, white ethnic-ish butcher shops carry them, etc. i dont know anything about the “great migration route for the tomales theory” but makes sense.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Cleveland (city proper) might actually surpass NYC (city proper) in % PR. I find that amazing. NYC was 8.8% PR in 2010, but that % has probably dropped.
why? just like ny, pr's had a small history in the area, and then unlike ny they were heavily recruited for the steel and auto industry.

most of the pr community in cle is in three neighborhoods on the near westside.

Cleveland city
Puerto Rican 31,000 8.1%

Cleveland MSA
Puerto Rican 66,000 3.2%

the difference in cle city and the msa is because by far and wide most of the pr community in ohio is in post-industrial lorain. it's lost over a quarter of its population, like 25k people, in the rust belt collapse, which is on a less publicized par with youngstown, but is still the 10th largest and most diverse city of any size in the state, percentage wise anyway. its still easily a third pr even though steel and auto have left (there is still plenty of that work nearby though, which helps keep people around even if they have to commute a bit). so thats around 25k pr peoples right there.

many people pr people i know in the bx have relatives or have been to cle and lorain.

this short video below says lately there are 100k pr in the whole state of ohio, and half are in lorain and cle city. i see columbus has about 10k and toledo 1k. i would guess the rest are scattered around greater clevelandia (and for comparison, chi and philly each have 100k). :

https://centropr.hunter.cuny.edu/cen...nity-lorain-oh

https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/13/new...wns/index.html


la villa in cle

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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 3:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
And the Bronx, probably the most Jewish place on earth in the 1940's, filled with garmentos, then became the most Puerto Rican place on earth outside of PR. Almost all the former Jewish neighborhoods transitioned to Puerto Rican (and are now transitioning to Dominican, Mexican and West African, especially in West Bronx).
interesting. a similar story played out in chicago, although at a MUCH smaller scale.

humboldt park was once a heavily jewish neighborhood back in the day, but starting in the 50s, it started to see an inlfux of puerto ricans, a process that accelerated in the 70s/80s as many puerto ricans were gentrified out of lincoln park and headed west out to humboldt. the result was humboldt park becoming the center of puerto rican life in chicago.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Houston is certainly more diverse than LA, which is about as diverse as Chicago. New York is the most diverse of those four. I just saw an article earlier this week that analyzed large cities by how likely 2 people selected at random would be different races. I’ll try to find it but forget the outlet right now
I know the stats claim Houston is ranked the highest but I've ran into people from virtually everywhere in New York.
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:35 PM
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Some of the smaller cities in New England and NY have a much higher percentage Puerto Rican.

Hartford has almost half Hispanic with majority PR.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
You should look at that list again. If you sort it by cultural diversity, New York is the most diverse major city. Houston is below SF, Boston, Los Angeles, and Orlando.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by samne View Post
Some of the smaller cities in New England and NY have a much higher percentage Puerto Rican.

Hartford has almost half Hispanic with majority PR.

yeah and i wondered about the history of that.

same as ohio, manufacturing related i would guess.

perhaps the old businesses there also went to pr and recruited as ne ohio steel and auto once did.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:44 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by samne View Post
Some of the smaller cities in New England and NY have a much higher percentage Puerto Rican.

Hartford has almost half Hispanic with majority PR.
I know, but those are minor cities, within the NY orbit.

I'm still surprised that a major Ohio city could soon be more PR than the city that is famously Uber-PR. It would be like if Cincy were more Jewish than NYC, or Columbus more Mexican than LA.

And yeah, even then, it isn't really true, because Cleveland Metro wouldn't be nearly as PR as NYC Metro.
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by emathias View Post
I think that his ignorance is just like so many other coastal persons' ignorance - they think because Chicago is in the center of the country it couldn't possibly actually have anything to offer the rest of the country, let alone the world. But I mean, come on, there's even a Latino and Chicago-specific nickname: Chicaganos.
I don't think it's that deep. I think it's a mix of a few things:

1) people unfamiliar with the city generally aren't aware of Chicago having a large Mexican population. Everyone knows about the Black, Polish, Italian influences, and these communities are pretty visible and their impacts noticeable by visitors. You've got blues and jazz clubs, sausages, pizza, mafia legacy stuff....these are things that come to mind when a lot of people think of Chicago. Most people don't think of Mexican food, culture, or people when they think of Chicago. I also don't ever recall seeing much of a visible Mexican culture or population in my visits to Chicago- at least not in the downtown/core area.

2) While Chicago's Mexican community is impressive for its location, it's not all that impressive from a sheer numbers perspective compared to many western cities/metros. For comparison, there are about 6.5 million Mexicans/Mexican Americans living in greater Los Angeles alone. Not Hispanics, but people specifically of Mexican origin. So, in comparison to that, a large city like Chicago having a million people of Mexican origin doesn't seem all that impressive. I think many westerners also just assume that cities elsewhere in the country are more hispanic than they are. A coworker of mine recently went to Ohio and came back shocked that she didn't see any Hispanics in her few days there.

3) Chicago doesn't really have a famous Hispanic/Mexican ambassador. NYC has many rappers and artists who brought DR/PR culture to the mainstream. LA has numerous Chicano stars who rep the city. Texas and Miami also have multiple Hispanic celebs who come to mind when you think of those places. Can't think of anything similar for Chicago, but can think of a million black and white celebrities who hail from and represent Chicago. I think the community is more or less hidden from visitors, and doesn't have great representation nationally.
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Houston is certainly more diverse than LA, which is about as diverse as Chicago.
LOL jokes.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I know, but those are minor cities, within the NY orbit.

I'm still surprised that a major Ohio city could soon be more PR than the city that is famously Uber-PR. It would be like if Cincy were more Jewish than NYC, or Columbus more Mexican than LA.

And yeah, even then, it isn't really true, because Cleveland Metro wouldn't be nearly as PR as NYC Metro.

as having firsthand knowledge of both, i don't see any surprise at all. you just over bought the typical ny hype about it.

of course there are numbers and then there are percentages. its not even close for the former. for the latter, while the cle metro as a whole may not seem as pr as the ny metro, and it certainly doesn't, what is pr in cle is definitely so, relatively speaking, in just about every way nyc is.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
LOL jokes.
https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/s...-in-the-the-us

Found the article I read. Did you form your opinion based on anything or did you just assume LA must be significantly more diverse than places in Texas and IL?

"U.S. News calculated racial diversity for U.S. cities with a population of 300,000 or more within their legal boundaries. Population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2018 American Community Survey were used to determine the share each racial and ethnic group accounted for in the city’s population and how likely it would be for two people chosen at random to be from different racial and ethnic groups. People of Hispanic ethnicity can be of any race, according to federal standards, but this overlap among groups is captured in the analysis."
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 7:10 PM
edale edale is offline
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Originally Posted by Handro View Post
https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/s...-in-the-the-us

Found the article I read. Did you form your opinion based on anything or did you just assume LA must be significantly more diverse than places in Texas and IL?

"U.S. News calculated racial diversity for U.S. cities with a population of 300,000 or more within their legal boundaries. Population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2018 American Community Survey were used to determine the share each racial and ethnic group accounted for in the city’s population and how likely it would be for two people chosen at random to be from different racial and ethnic groups. People of Hispanic ethnicity can be of any race, according to federal standards, but this overlap among groups is captured in the analysis."
No, I've read that article (and this one https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/a...analysis-shows) and it's pretty bogus. It treats all Asians, Hispanics, Blacks, Whites as the same. By this metric, sure, maybe Chicago is as diverse as LA because it has a much larger black population than LA.

But, of course, all Asians are not the same. Just as all people with black skin aren't the same nationality, nor are people who identify as Hispanic, etc. LA has much greater representation of people from a wider range of places than Chicago does. It's a, if not THE, hub of immigration on the West Coast, so this is pretty intuitive. Simply put, the diversity found within each racial category is higher in LA than Chicago (or Houston), and it's not really even close.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2020, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
I know, but those are minor cities, within the NY orbit.

I'm still surprised that a major Ohio city could soon be more PR than the city that is famously Uber-PR. It would be like if Cincy were more Jewish than NYC, or Columbus more Mexican than LA.

And yeah, even then, it isn't really true, because Cleveland Metro wouldn't be nearly as PR as NYC Metro.
More like proximity. Much like Italians fanning out beyond NYC, Boston and Philly but still heavily concentrated in the northeast. Same with Mexicans, they are everywhere and you can get a taco in Augusta Maine but they are concentrated in the SW/ Texas areas.
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