I keep hearing "Toronto is coming close to Chicago" but I dont see it

[koops65]

I'm guessing FCP would be the biggest, at 2.7 million square feet.

[trofirhen]

Why why why can't Toronto stop aping Chicago (or NYC, or Dallas .......)
I wish the city would just be content to be a better Toronto, without these constant comparisons.
Be yourself. That's the best option. Others will disagree, of course.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Why why why can't Toronto stop aping Chicago (or NYC, or Dallas .......)
I wish the city would just be content to be a better Toronto, without these constant comparisons.
Be yourself. That's the best option. Others will disagree, of course.

Just because a few people get the urge to make a comparison between Toronto and some other city doesn't mean Toronto's trying to be like that city. Likewise, when Parisians compare their city to London it doesn't mean they're trying to ape London. Toronto is doing its own thing but comparing is something every person and every city on earth does. It's human nature.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by isaidso

First Canadian Place is 2,700,120 sq ft. Pearson airport's Terminal 1 is 6,000,000 sq ft while West Edmonton Mall is 5,300,000 sq ft but for an office building FCP is likely the largest. Btw, Complex Desjardins in Montreal has 4,500,968 sq ft but it's not 1 tower. It's a massive podium that takes up an entire city block with 4 short towers rising from it.

Thanks guys. I'll get to Toronto one of these days

[ssiguy]

In terms of skyline, Toronto is not even in Chicago's league little alone a contender. That may change over time but even if all proposals right now were built, it still wouldn't be comparable to Chicago.

[softee]

A couple of recent Toronto pics. The gap between the two cities is closing fast.


By Ravi Pardesi on Flickr


East of Yonge by Russell Sutherland, on Flickr[/QUOTE]

[koops65]

Yes the gap (skyline-wise) is closing, but not all that fast, because Chicago also keeps building, just at a slower pace than Toronto is. Toronto needs another 40 or 50 towers in the 120 - 180 metre range, another dozen or so 200 metre+ towers, and a handful of supertalls still, and then I would call them equal...

[Orion1]

Never been to Chicago but I'm already planning my 2nd trip to Toronto. Love the city!

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Why why why can't Toronto stop aping Chicago (or NYC, or Dallas .......)
I wish the city would just be content to be a better Toronto, without these constant comparisons.
Be yourself. That's the best option. Others will disagree, of course.

On the skyline department I think it's fine. Chicago is a good role model. Fairly nice looking over all. Definitely a better one than New York, which is their other obsession.


(Never seen anyone try to ape Dallas though. . . If it's going to try to copy a similarly sized city in the Americas it should aim for Santiago on the extensive metro front.)

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

In terms of skyline, Toronto is not even in Chicago's league little alone a contender. That may change over time but even if all proposals right now were built, it still wouldn't be comparable to Chicago.

I wouldn't say that. It's a big skyline that looks impressive from many angles. My question to Toronto forumers is why does the city build so sprawling? There seems to be plenty of land near the central core and by the lake that could be developed. It's amazing to me how the skyline is perpendicular to the shoreline.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by kolchak

I wouldn't say that. It's a big skyline that looks impressive from many angles. My question to Toronto forumers is why does the city build so sprawling? There seems to be plenty of land near the central core and by the lake that could be developed. It's amazing to me how the skyline is perpendicular to the shoreline.

Toronto's main street is Yonge. Perpendicular to the lake. That's where the subway is too, Toronto's very first subway line. In contrast, along the lake there is the Gardiner Expressway, which doesn't exactly help with density.

It hard to say Toronto made the wrong choice prioritizing transit on Yonge considering the transit ridership of Toronto is much, much higher than Chicago. Ultimately that is what drives higher density and will continue to drive higher density. And higher density isn't always in the form of skyscrapers either.

[isaidso]

I prefer that the skyline and density grew perpendicular to the lake along Yonge and the subway line. Along the lake seems like the more natural direction for a skyline but the Yonge spine has created the feeling of an endless city with clusters stretching north from the lake as far as one can see. We'll end up with a skyline along the lake too but it would be much harder to do things in the reverse. I doubt Chicago will ever develop a skyline running west perpendicular to Lake Michigan.

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I doubt Chicago will ever develop a skyline running west perpendicular to Lake Michigan.

I don't understand this statement at all. Chicago's Downtown is growing very, very rapidly in population density, overall population and area. There are 45 high rises currently under construction - and the skyline is being pushed further west all the time. I just don't think many Toronto folk realize the scale here. All they read are articles about how Toronto is bigger now and growing faster as a City- but this gives a VERY false impression of the incredible scale, continued growth and continuing increase in the population density of Downtown Chicago:

Here is a pick taken at the western edge of the Loop - Chicago's Financial District. From this spot here there is a 2 kilometer long x 2 kilometer wide dense thicket of skyscrapers all the way to the lake. And this is just one skyscraper dense area in Downtown Chicago - there's also the South Loop, River North, Gold Coast, Streeterville, New East Side, West Loop...


Wolf Point West photogallery

[kolchak]

And here another aerial view that shows how far west the skyline reaches now with a big push in that direction happening as we speak


IO Chicago

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by kolchak

I wouldn't say that. It's a big skyline that looks impressive from many angles. My question to Toronto forumers is why does the city build so sprawling? There seems to be plenty of land near the central core and by the lake that could be developed. It's amazing to me how the skyline is perpendicular to the shoreline.

But Toronto is way less sprawling that Chicago (or pretty well any other American metro)?

Look past the skyline and Chicago is low rise sprawl forever. Toronto meanwhile has high density apartment towers all over the place.

[koops65]

The kind of density and height in the foreground there is everywhere in Toronto, miles from the downtown core in all directions...

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by Beedok

But Toronto is way less sprawling that Chicago (or pretty well any other American metro)?

Look past the skyline and Chicago is low rise sprawl forever. Toronto meanwhile has high density apartment towers all over the place.

That's just absurd. The North Side of Chicago is anything but low rise sprawl. You simply have your facts screwed up and are confusing the suburban with the urban. Toronto just has fewer old urban neighborhoods than Chicago so you have little exposure to - 'London style' if you will - urban areas. This shot is the definition of urban density

North Side of Chicago - many miles from Downtown:


Getty Images

[kolchak]

Originally Posted by koops65

The kind of density and height in the foreground there is everywhere in Toronto, miles from the downtown core in all directions...

This photo was used to illustrate the west reaching side of the central business district - not the buildings in the foreground.

[kolchak]

One more shot - this one of the development around Wrigley Field. This also shows the North Side's density of older buildings. There is not a lot of room for any new high rises to go up in areas like this:

Photo by @WrigleyAerials

[kolchak]

And last if you think its just the North Side - here is the West Side Wicker Park area. Again older and dense and not a lot of open land for high rises - although its beginning to happen here.

Wikimedia


Imgur