Ontario Highways

[sonysnob]

View looking towards Toronto overtop of the recently twinned QEW bridges that carry the highway overtop of the Credit River. Both directions of traffic have been shifted onto the new span to allow the old bridge to be fully rehabilitated:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_i...0540_24x18.jpg

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

You people worry too much.
When MTO builds something like this, especially for TCH, grade separation is always future-proofed, unlike the Prairies where it seems more like an afterthought.

For example, for Shabaqua 4 lanes, MTO’s plan shows approved intersections, but those can be closed or converted to interchange whenever warranted. In fact, the zoning map from Oliver Paypoonge shows the interchange locations.

There are interchanges future proofed into each stretch of the twinning between Nipigon and TBay. In the photo example the far intersection is the location of the future interchange while the near intersection will be eliminated and the road re-routed to connect with other side roads.

The future potential interchanges are at the Spruce River Road, McKenzie Station Road, Lakeshore Drive, Eldorado Beach Road, and Pass Lake on the completed western portion; the new Loon Lake entrance and Number 5 Road on the new construction (Pass Lake to Pearl); Superior Shores (eastern detail design) Ouimet Canyon and the eastern entrance of the Dorion Loop Road on the newly completed middle portion; Townline Road (middle detail design); eastern end of Highway 582 on the new construction (582 to Coughlin Road); Red Rock Road 9 and Highway 628 on the completed western portion; and the junction of Highway 11 by the Nipigon River Bridge.

All of the above information has come from the previous detailed designs and schematics for the various stages of the highway twinning. The MTO definitely has future plans for interchanges but I doubt I will see even half of them considered in my lifetime.

IMHO once the current two stages under construction are completed the speed limit should be raised to 100 kph with posted reduced speed between Dorion and the eastern connection of Highway 582, and again across the Black Sturgeon River between Coughlin Rd and Red Rock 9.

TCH to Kenora is happening at least. After the route from Nipigon to TBay is completed I would hope that the government of the day starts grade separating the Thunder Bay Expressway and twinning the highway out towards Oliver Paipoonge. The projects can happen (and are happening) concurrently.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

While it is annoying that it will not be freeway standards, 4 lanes will be better than 2. Any idea of opening date?

Supposedly the end of August, just prior to Labour Day. There is still a substantial amount of paving that needs to be completed.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

There are interchanges future proofed into each stretch of the twinning between Nipigon and TBay. In the photo example the far intersection is the location of the future interchange while the near intersection will be eliminated and the road re-routed to connect with other side roads.

The future potential interchanges are at the Spruce River Road, McKenzie Station Road, Lakeshore Drive, Eldorado Beach Road, and Pass Lake on the completed western portion; the new Loon Lake entrance and Number 5 Road on the new construction (Pass Lake to Pearl); Superior Shores (eastern detail design) Ouimet Canyon and the eastern entrance of the Dorion Loop Road on the newly completed middle portion; Townline Road (middle detail design); eastern end of Highway 582 on the new construction (582 to Coughlin Road); Red Rock Road 9 and Highway 628 on the completed western portion; and the junction of Highway 11 by the Nipigon River Bridge.

All of the above information has come from the previous detailed designs and schematics for the various stages of the highway twinning. The MTO definitely has future plans for interchanges but I doubt I will see even half of them considered in my lifetime.

IMHO once the current two stages under construction are completed the speed limit should be raised to 100 kph with posted reduced speed between Dorion and the eastern connection of Highway 582, and again across the Black Sturgeon River between Coughlin Rd and Red Rock 9.

TCH to Kenora is happening at least. After the route from Nipigon to TBay is completed I would hope that the government of the day starts grade separating the Thunder Bay Expressway and twinning the highway out towards Oliver Paipoonge. The projects can happen (and are happening) concurrently.

For Pass Lake, I've always been curious what'll happen to that Flying J when the interchange gets built.
For speed limit increase, I've always thought that it's better to have all the 4 lanes done between T Bay and Nipigon first.
For Shabaqua Freeway, I can see the portion beyond Sistonens Corners Mokomon twinned at least. See if you guys can open this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FcX...usp=drive_link

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

For Pass Lake, I've always been curious what'll happen to that Flying J when the interchange gets built.
For speed limit increase, I've always thought that it's better to have all the 4 lanes done between T Bay and Nipigon first.
For Shabaqua Freeway, I can see the portion beyond Sistonens Corners Mokomon twinned at least. See if you guys can open this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FcX...usp=drive_link

The interchange at Pass Lake is going to require so much engineering and so much fill I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they didn't just relocate the whole thing and build a new road up to the new connection at Loon Lake or over to Nelson/Eldorado Road. Then they could build some sort of interpretation of a diamond interchange either at the bottom of the hill rising up to Pass Lake (west side), or one coming down off the hill from Loon (east side) just for the truck stop.

That is, honestly, the worst spot for that highway in relation to the access to Pass Lake, the Sleeping Giant, and the Flying J.

The link worked - Twinning the highway between Mokomon and the Dawson Road Lots is where the project west of the city should begin given the increase in accidents at the intersection of 102. and the lack of alternate routes in that area.

Given the cost of building highway here I suspect the twinning will proceed out the Harbour Expressway corridor until Twin City Crossroads, especially given all the new houses being built out in Oliver-Paipoonge. Traffic on Oliver Rd, the Highway and Arthur Street is ridiculously bad at multiple times of the day with too many bad drivers who drive recklessly in order to get home or get to camp.

And the highway will collapse back to two lanes once the road reaches Twin City Crossroads and nothing will happen for a dozen years while people fight the loss of farmland for a highway - like it is a project they've never heard of before.

[sonysnob]

I doubt they'll build an interchange at Pass Lake in my lifetime, but it seems to me that if they did, Hwy 587 would go under Highway 11/17, not overtop of it.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I doubt they'll build an interchange at Pass Lake in my lifetime, but it seems to me that if they did, Hwy 587 would go under Highway 11/17, not overtop of it.

I’m thinking the same thing too. As it stands right now, 587 has a 10% downgrade coming off Highways 11/17.

[F. Lionel]

The ESR addendum report for the four laning project between Dorion and Highway 582 will be released on September 5th, 2023.

Some of the adjustments requested by the local parties include some minor ROW adjustments to maintain residential properties, maintaining existing bridges, and major side road upgrades.

There are currently no plans to begin construction of this project. Even if announced before the end of 2023 construction probably would not be completed until 2030.

The new alignment from Superior Shores to Dorion is completely open with only some final paving and painting work to be done (along with some other small associated projects).

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by F. Lionel

The ESR addendum report for the four laning project between Dorion and Highway 582 will be released on September 5th, 2023.

Some of the adjustments requested by the local parties include some minor ROW adjustments to maintain residential properties, maintaining existing bridges, and major side road upgrades.

There are currently no plans to begin construction of this project. Even if announced before the end of 2023 construction probably would not be completed until 2030.

The new alignment from Superior Shores to Dorion is completely open with only some final paving and painting work to be done (along with some other small associated projects).

Based on the info in the 2023 Northern Highways program, the next HWY 11/17 segment to start will probably be the 5 km segment from Red Rock 9 to Coughlin Road, planned for 2025-2026. The 6.5 km section from Coughlin Road to HWY 582 is currently underway and due to be completed in 2024, and the 14 km segment from HWY 587 to Pearl Lake is also currently underway, due to be completed in 2026.

Based on that, I would estimate that this segment will potentially start around the 2026 timeframe, unless there are other segments also working through the same process. Worth noting that after the Red Rock 9 to Coughlin Road segment, there are no other new 11/17 projects in the Program at this time.

[Innsertnamehere]

Generally it looks like MTO spends so much annually on the TB-Nipigon twinning project. There has basically been one section of the road under construction since 2010. I imagine the next phases will occur sequentially after the current phases.

Whole thing will probably wrap up in the early 2030's if I have to guess.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

Based on the info in the 2023 Northern Highways program, the next HWY 11/17 segment to start will probably be the 5 km segment from Red Rock 9 to Coughlin Road, planned for 2025-2026. The 6.5 km section from Coughlin Road to HWY 582 is currently underway and due to be completed in 2024, and the 14 km segment from HWY 587 to Pearl Lake is also currently underway, due to be completed in 2026.

Based on that, I would estimate that this segment will potentially start around the 2026 timeframe, unless there are other segments also working through the same process. Worth noting that after the Red Rock 9 to Coughlin Road segment, there are no other new 11/17 projects in the Program at this time.

After speaking with the project team about this at the last PIC the general consensus was that Red Rock 9 to Coughlin Road was a bit of a mess based on the new bridge at Black Sturgeon and the routing there which is what led to this project not being officially announced earlier.

Pearl Lake to Superior Shores is in detailed design right now and faces less opposition as there are no major land owners along the proposed route and no major existing infrastructure to replace or relocate save potentially 3-4 towers on the hydro corridor. I could see this going into construction in 2026 after Pass Lake to Pearl is completed.

Once the current the projects are completed there are only 4 projects left to complete in the twinning program east of Thunder Bay: Pearl Lake to Superior Shores, Dorion to Highway 582, Coughlin Road to Red Rock 9, and Nipigon Proper. I don't believe this project will wrap before the mid 2030s at best. Each of the remaining projects involve a mix of completely new routes and some fairly large infrastructure. The new bridges across the Wolf River will be more than twice the length of the bridges at McKenzie for example.

[F. Lionel]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Generally it looks like MTO spends so much annually on the TB-Nipigon twinning project. There has basically been one section of the road under construction since 2010. I imagine the next phases will occur sequentially after the current phases.

Whole thing will probably wrap up in the early 2030's if I have to guess.

Considering it has taken 28 or so years since the first twinning project began to get to this point I feel this is a little optimistic.

[Innsertnamehere]

There was a small twinning east of thunder bay decades ago.. but it didn't really begin in earnest with the current program until the Hodder Avenue interchange started construction in 2010. There has basically been at least 1 segment under construction at any given time since then. 20 years for the full buildout seems reasonable, especially at the pace they are going at right now.

[Dengler Avenue]

There was a small twinning east of thunder bay decades ago...

And one can tell that it was done decades ago by the 15-m median.

[sonysnob]

If I were a betting man, I'd assume that the next contracts for Highway 11/17 won't start until probably 2026 or so.

Right now, there are three contracts ongoing. One should wrap up this year, while the others have a few years of heavy construction remaining. I would expect that the next round of contracts will get called once the two that started are getting closer to being finished.

There is only so much local capacity to do the work up there. When I drove through in July, there wasn't a single room for rent in Nipigon. It was a long cold night sleeping in my car.

For anyone who is interested, I recorded a video of Highway 11/17 between Thunder Bay and Nipigon that I published earlier today:

• Video Link

[Innsertnamehere]

MTO is moving quickly on the EA for the Highway 6 widening in Hamilton. PIC 2 will be on September 16:



Note the unfortunate, american spelling of "Center". Inconsistent within the document as well, with the title head at the top of the page adopting the Canadian spelling..

[jammer139]

MTO needs to bring back proper road tests for licensing new drivers.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ents-1.6962941

[Innsertnamehere]

Preferred alignment for the Highway 6 widening here:

https://hwy6southwideninghamilton.ca..._Optimized.pdf

No real surprises here - parclo at Book Rd, trumpet at the Airport, and retains the intersection with Upper James more or less as it already is.

Only thing that really surprises me is increasing the radius of the 6W - 403N ramp. Figured that they would just have kept it as it's a pretty marginal improvement over the existing condition for its cost.

[Dengler Avenue]

Notably, the stopgap at Upper James Road shows the future extension.
I’m aware of its existence. I just find it interesting.

[Innsertnamehere]

MTO still protects the corridor for it. Given the way they are proposing to end the widening at Upper James however, with little consideration for futureproofing in advance of an extension to Caledonia, I don't expect it to get built any time soon.