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  #15261  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 6:14 PM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
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Originally Posted by LAsam View Post
The problem with Oceanwide Plaza is that not only do you need to spend the $865MM to finish (good luck getting financing for that)... but then your finished product is a bunch of luxury condos (good luck with that), two story retail (good luck with that), and a hotel (not so bad).
Agreed with the above. I think the hotel is iffy at best - hotel rates (ADR for those in the industry) have plummeted in DTLA since 2019. That's why the Ace closed. Convention center business definitely helps in this location, but that's generally low rate business. I think the key will be getting some transient occupancy tax breaks like other hotels have gotten in the area. Don't get me wrong, I think the hotel will have positive value when completed, just not much. Which means the buyer really needs to move the condos at a decent price to justify the $850M (word is the real number is $1 billion) needed to finish the project.

As for the retail - I think the ground floor will be good given the extremely high traffic location across the street from the Staples Center... *sigh* I mean Crypto.com Area... and LA Live. But the 2nd and 3rd floor won't work. The buyer will have to find a different use there. Maybe meeting space/event venue for a convention-oriented hotel?

The condos will likely need to be reconfigured. As designed they're very large, and there's a price ceiling of what you can get in DTLA these days. There just aren't many buyers looking to spend more than a couple million in DTLA these days.

Edit - fixed a typo.

Overall - great news that a sale is finally being forced. Let's hope it goes to a good group that's looking to finish the whole project. I've heard some groups talk about tearing down one or more towers, which would be a terrible outcome for DTLA.
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  #15262  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 11:32 PM
citywatch citywatch is offline
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labusinessjournal.com

Despite downtown facing staggering office vacancy rates and overall low levels of activity, the hospitality market appears to be booming. According to a recent report published by the DTLA Alliance, the neighborhood just topped 10,000 hotel rooms and has another 8,000 in the pipeline.

“Downtown is the place to stay when visiting Los Angeles,” Suzanne Holley, president and chief executive of the DTLA Alliance, said. Visitation rates have returned to pre-pandemic levels, according to the report, and, out of the 50 million annual visitors coming to Los Angeles, 17 million head downtown.

Per square mile, the downtown area boasts 157 food and beverage establishments and 743 retail businesses, five and 10 times the city’s density, respectively, with plenty of access to sports, entertainment and cultural institutions, along with dining and nightlife options. And with Los Angeles in the global spotlight over the next decade – namely for events including the 2028 Olympics, the 2026 World Cup and the 2027 Super Bowl – the overall Los Angeles hospitality industry is gearing up to welcome a handful of visitors, downtown being no exception.
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  #15263  
Old Posted May 13, 2024, 11:36 PM
LA21st LA21st is online now
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LA hotel occupancy rates are better than most cities. I wanna say its in the top 6 or 7.
Vegas, NYC and some convention cities are higher from what I remember.
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  #15264  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 1:43 AM
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LA hotel occupancy rates are better than most cities. I wanna say its in the top 6 or 7.
Vegas, NYC and some convention cities are higher from what I remember.
That is good news for whatever entity buys and completes Oceanwide, as it has a hotel component.
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  #15265  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 3:34 AM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
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According to the Downtown Business Improvement District/DTLA Alliance (who's reports that story is based on), occupancy was 68.9% and ADR (Average Daily Rate) was $219 for a REVPAR (revenue per available room) of $151 in Q4 2023. Compare that to Q4 2019, when occupancy was 78.9%, ADR was $217, and REVPAR was was $171. That's a 12% decline in revenue over a time when there was ~20% inflation (which should have driven 20% revenue growth in order to just tread water). That article really isn't about hotel performance, it's about the amount of hotel rooms that are now available. I don't mean to doom here - I believe in the future of DTLA, and more hotel rooms are a great thing for DTLA. I'm just responding to the idea that the article that was posted means Oceanwide's hotel portion would do well. Those rates and occupancies do not support new construction.
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  #15266  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 6:00 AM
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  #15267  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 6:29 PM
LA21st LA21st is online now
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Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
According to the Downtown Business Improvement District/DTLA Alliance (who's reports that story is based on), occupancy was 68.9% and ADR (Average Daily Rate) was $219 for a REVPAR (revenue per available room) of $151 in Q4 2023. Compare that to Q4 2019, when occupancy was 78.9%, ADR was $217, and REVPAR was was $171. That's a 12% decline in revenue over a time when there was ~20% inflation (which should have driven 20% revenue growth in order to just tread water). That article really isn't about hotel performance, it's about the amount of hotel rooms that are now available. I don't mean to doom here - I believe in the future of DTLA, and more hotel rooms are a great thing for DTLA. I'm just responding to the idea that the article that was posted means Oceanwide's hotel portion would do well. Those rates and occupancies do not support new construction.
69% isnt bad post covid for a downtown though. I bet thats still better than many downtowns.

Chicago's Loop was at 51% in Q1 for 2024 and they're trying to convert more old offices into hotels.'

Oceanwide wouldnt be finished until like 2026-2027 right? Im sure the market will be much better by then. Its not about NOW, its about what it will be.
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  #15268  
Old Posted May 14, 2024, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
69% isnt bad post covid for a downtown though. I bet thats still better than many downtowns.

Chicago's Loop was at 51% in Q1 for 2024 and they're trying to convert more old offices into hotels.'

Oceanwide wouldnt be finished until like 2026-2027 right? Im sure the market will be much better by then. Its not about NOW, its about what it will be.
I'm not in the hotel business, but it seems that today's occupancy rates are less relevant to the Oceanwide hotel than the rates on and subsequent to its opening. It will no doubt attract a ton of visitors if open by the 2026 World Cup events and, of course, during the 2028 Olympics.
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  #15269  
Old Posted May 16, 2024, 9:51 PM
4thethrill 4thethrill is offline
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Good news everyone. Was just driving down Alameda and saw that one of the cold storage facilities is almost nearly demolished. Didn't snap a photo but its this one.

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  #15270  
Old Posted May 16, 2024, 10:49 PM
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Good news everyone. Was just driving down Alameda and saw that one of the cold storage facilities is almost nearly demolished. Didn't snap a photo but its this one.

What’s going here?
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  #15271  
Old Posted May 16, 2024, 11:15 PM
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What’s going here?
4th and Central



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  #15272  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 12:21 AM
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Yeah that is good news!
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  #15273  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 3:35 AM
liat91 liat91 is offline
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That’s a game changer for the skyline. Perhaps what we’ve been waiting for as a tipping point.
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  #15274  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 5:16 AM
Radio5 Radio5 is offline
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If you look on their site, the latest times article sited has different renderings

https://fourthandcentral.com/
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  #15275  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 4:05 PM
SoCalKid SoCalKid is offline
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If you look on their site, the latest times article sited has different renderings

https://fourthandcentral.com/
The project hasn't even gotten entitlements/CEQA approved, much less begun permitting, so the designs are just rendering placeholders at this point. We'll see lots of change if this goes forward in the future, though hopefully not in scale.
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  #15276  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
The project hasn't even gotten entitlements/CEQA approved, much less begun permitting, so the designs are just rendering placeholders at this point. We'll see lots of change if this goes forward in the future, though hopefully not in scale.
When could getting approved potentially happen?
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  #15277  
Old Posted May 17, 2024, 9:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
The project hasn't even gotten entitlements/CEQA approved, much less begun permitting, so the designs are just rendering placeholders at this point. We'll see lots of change if this goes forward in the future, though hopefully not in scale.
CEQA is being fast tracked and they claim to be on track to be fully entitled by the end of the year with groundbreaking in 2025. https://www.latimes.com/homeless-hou...vernors-office
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  #15278  
Old Posted May 18, 2024, 3:15 AM
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Reviving Downtown Los Angeles: Why Design Thinking Matters Even More Now

Long-range planning in Los Angeles created a growing light-rail network, which in turn reduces reliance on automotive transport and allows dense, mixed-use development with reduced parking along transit corridors[/URL]. The Los Angeles Metro line from downtown to Santa Monica has led to iconic architecture and walkable nodes along that line. Here’s an example: as large development sites become rarer and rarer in geographically constrained cities, smaller sites become the predominant opportunity for development. Throughout L.A., the development of small infill lots in such neighborhoods as Koreatown, Echo Park, and Los Feliz are stymied by the need for parking (most of these sites don’t require parking by code; despite L.A. having an overall abundance of parking, it’s not always where people need it and the city has not urbanized to the point where most people can access transit conveniently, so parking, in most instances, is still needed) and the expense of a small parking podium.

Retail and commercial district parking garages represent a well-known strategy to energize historic retail and commercial corridors—why couldn’t a private or public collective create a residential district garage, making feasible small-lot developments in and around it? Further alliance opportunities might come from collective battery storage for a microgrid to shared open space on the roof—all of which could offset the costs of individual projects. The idea of design alliance starts with the premise that a single development can never be entirely self-sufficient, so it makes sense to look for creative collaborations with neighbors to increase project feasibility while adding something of value to the community.

The Trust Building in Los Angeles’ historic core is a case study in the long-term value of design quality. Originally built for the offices of a title insurance and banking firm, the building opened in 1928 and has been adapted to multiple uses over its history, including light manufacturing and even as a temporary home for the city’s central library. The building’s appeal comes from its crisp terra cotta facade, its inventively grand entry lobby, and its engaging tile murals within a bronze-gated portico.

Renovated in 2020 by Rising Realty for creative office use, the building has recently been acquired by University of California, Los Angeles to serve as an urban satellite building. Although the Trust Building has been preserved substantively intact for nearly 100 years, the predominant character of its context— physical, cultural, and economic—has been constant change. Design quality is a significant factor in preserving the Trust Building’s value over time. It’s worth noting that the back of the Trust Building is simple brick, not terra-cotta, and the high level of finish extends mainly through the public areas of the building.

Three blocks from the Trust Building, the historic Tower Theater reopened in 2021, reimagined by architect Foster + Partners as an Apple store. Although the reimagined space has been exquisitely adapted to its current use, the original building, one of a group of historic theaters along the Broadway Street corridor, was notably short on bronze. Its design was economical for the time, done like a stage set to create an engaging and attractive exterior that would draw people into the theater. Architecture purists might debate the integrity of buildings with skin-deep, decorative cladding, but this expedient approach to design has an inventive quality that created value over time and played a part in the birth of a vital architectural and cultural district for the city.

It’s important not to conflate high design quality with high cost. Often, the value of design isn’t what a particular building looks like or is made of, but the space created and shaped by it. None of the now-historic theaters along the Broadway corridor in L.A. are themselves architectural masterpieces, but together they form an urban space with lasting and incontrovertible value, despite their economy of construction.

Consider the trajectory of the design idea in a contemporary project: the mixed-use collaboration between Related and Gehry Partners across from Disney Hall in L.A. The long-anticipated project opened in 2022 and includes a hotel, rental apartments, and a group of restaurant and retail spaces. Transforming a parking lot on a sloping site at the edge of an internally focused performing arts center into an engaging urban environment is a tall order. The project, spanning almost two decades from its initial conception, went through many design revisions, many of them open to public scrutiny.

Through its various iterations, the project’s program, urban presence, and architectural expression shifted significantly, but what remained constant was a strong design idea: a clear-eyed solution to the problem of creating an urban environment that (for now) is disconnected (but not distant) from its surroundings. The design concept of two relatively short towers bracketing an engaging series of multilevel indoor and outdoor spaces that step down the sloped site and up from the street create, define, and protect a small-scale urban environment that anticipates connections and continuity with future developments—essentially, a mini-city providing a deft synthesis of uses, views, and architectural perspectives.
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  #15279  
Old Posted May 18, 2024, 3:26 AM
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omg....look at the person walking on tightrope strung between the oceanwide towers

Video Link
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  #15280  
Old Posted May 18, 2024, 7:57 AM
BaldwinDPB BaldwinDPB is offline
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OceanWide

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Originally Posted by SoCalKid View Post
Agreed with the above. I think the hotel is iffy at best - hotel rates (ADR for those in the industry) have plummeted in DTLA since 2019. That's why the Ace closed. Convention center business definitely helps in this location, but that's generally low rate business. I think the key will be getting some transient occupancy tax breaks like other hotels have gotten in the area. Don't get me wrong, I think the hotel will have positive value when completed, just not much. Which means the buyer really needs to move the condos at a decent price to justify the $850M (word is the real number is $1 billion) needed to finish the project.

As for the retail - I think the ground floor will be good given the extremely high traffic location across the street from the Staples Center... *sigh* I mean Crypto.com Area... and LA Live. But the 2nd and 3rd floor won't work. The buyer will have to find a different use there. Maybe meeting space/event venue for a convention-oriented hotel?

The condos will likely need to be reconfigured. As designed they're very large, and there's a price ceiling of what you can get in DTLA these days. There just aren't many buyers looking to spend more than a couple million in DTLA these days.

Edit - fixed a typo.

Overall - great news that a sale is finally being forced. Let's hope it goes to a good group that's looking to finish the whole project. I've heard some groups talk about tearing down one or more towers, which would be a terrible outcome for DTLA.
Don't, and I repeat, Don't sell to any developer who has the mind to tear any one of those buildings down.
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