The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[Vin]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

I don't know who's out there buying whole city blocks and rezoning it for an indoor shopping mall with high end retail in Vancouver.

No one is doing it in Vancouver because they know they cannot build such a thing here, so why bother? Might as well build elsewhere like Brentwood, YVR, Tsawwassen, Coquitlam Central, etc. In order for that kind of built form to be achieved in Vancouver, developers require a lot that would not only allow very high density FSRs, but with other restrictions like podium sizes, overhangs, shadowing, viewcones, use of space, etc. etc. removed. That's like harder than impossible.

And also, a shopping mall does not have to be 100% high-end. Mixed-type retail centres, but at the same time aesthetically appealing, are best suited for survival. Metropolis Mall is one such an example.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by Vin

That's all how they started, but suburbs are now trying to turn them into shopping nodes. Still lots that need to improve, but at least the municipalities are going towards the right direction. Vancouver is still mostly doing the same-ol. I bet if you calculate the square footage of shopping centre retail space per capita only in Vancouver, that would be even more dismal. Burnaby and Richmond would probably be two of the highest in the country. Unfortunately, the region as a whole is pulled down by Vancouver's backwardness.




Truth is, our retail facilities are pretty dismal. Have you recently taken a walk along the stretch of Main from the skytrain station to 2nd Ave? Isn't it really sad? Our outdoor shopping experience is also pretty backward. Park Royal & McArthur Glen are a little better but they are just ordinary at best.

Rodeo Drive:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0678...7i16384!8i8192

Starhill:
https://www.google.com/maps/@3.14799...7i13312!8i6656

Orchard Road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@1.30297...7i13312!8i6656

Regent & Oxford:
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5153...7i16384!8i8192

Southbank Promenade:
https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.821...7i13312!8i6656




Compared to Vancouver's premiere shopping/entertainment street:
https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2851...7i16384!8i8192

Vancouver looks like a dump compared to those cities. Greenest city my ass.

[Retail-Insider]

Publication UrbanYVR has quite the renderings of what could be happening to the Bay Parkade across Seymour Street from the Hudson's Bay flagship store.

The plans are from several years ago and the 'department store' shown was potentially for Saks Fifth Avenue, though the retailer has halted its Canadian store expansion for now: https://urbanyvr.com/bay-parkade-redevelopment-concepts

If anything similar to the renderings happens, it will be unlike anything seen in Canada. It also presents the opportunity for a luxury retail centre in the core, as well as possibly a new Four Seasons Hotel (if it doesn't end up opening across from the Bentall Centre, that is).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Retail-Insider

Publication UrbanYVR has quite the renderings of what could be happening to the Bay Parkade across Seymour Street from the Hudson's Bay flagship store.

The plans are from several years ago and the 'department store' shown was potentially for Saks Fifth Avenue, though the retailer has halted its Canadian store expansion for now: https://urbanyvr.com/bay-parkade-redevelopment-concepts

If anything similar to the renderings happens, it will be unlike anything seen in Canada. It also presents the opportunity for a luxury retail centre in the core, as well as possibly a new Four Seasons Hotel (if it doesn't end up opening across from the Bentall Centre, that is).

We discussed it in the rumours thread..

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Retail-Insider

Publication UrbanYVR has quite the renderings of what could be happening to the Bay Parkade across Seymour Street from the Hudson's Bay flagship store.

All the renderings and information originate from posts made in the rumours thread by a forum member with knowledge of the project.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Vin

Also this:



This is contrary to what "those who know better" said. In other words, we are under-retailed.

Well except the rest of the nation has many more failed and struggling malls per capita than we do, so perhaps they are over-retailed?

As it stands right now ICSC was very poorly attended and retailers are not doing as many deals as they were in the past. The trajectory is still showing downward trends, so retail expansion will continue to be muted over the near future.

You many not like that, but that's the market sentiment from both landlords and tenants.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Vin

No one is doing it in Vancouver because they know they cannot build such a thing here, so why bother? Might as well build elsewhere like Brentwood, YVR, Tsawwassen, Coquitlam Central, etc. In order for that kind of built form to be achieved in Vancouver, developers require a lot that would not only allow very high density FSRs, but with other restrictions like podium sizes, overhangs, shadowing, viewcones, use of space, etc. etc. removed. That's like harder than impossible.

And also, a shopping mall does not have to be 100% high-end. Mixed-type retail centres, but at the same time aesthetically appealing, are best suited for survival. Metropolis Mall is one such an example.

Agreed. Buying older, street grid, multiple-owned properties and rezoning for a larger development is harder than say a Cadillac-Fairview redeveloping a mall surface parking lot or a Concord developing single-storey warehouse / light industrial in a suburban municipality that lacks a downtown and existing long-standing built urban form.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well except the rest of the nation has many more failed and struggling malls per capita than we do, so perhaps they are over-retailed?

As it stands right now ICSC was very poorly attended and retailers are not doing as many deals as they were in the past. The trajectory is still showing downward trends, so retail expansion will continue to be muted over the near future.

You many not like that, but that's the market sentiment from both landlords and tenants.

Or perhaps there are just too many strip malls elsewhere that are not doing well, when you very well know I am referring to city centre malls that should be built. It goes without saying that statistical figures from those far-flung, old, tired looking strip malls reflect "struggling" malls in North America that you are suggesting. Also, please share which city centre mall in Canada is struggling? (don't say International Village, as that has different sets of issues altogether) I would rather think that street retailing is struggling more than those found in urban shopping centres. But of course, you can prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Agreed. Buying older, street grid, multiple-owned properties and rezoning for a larger development is harder than say a Cadillac-Fairview redeveloping a mall surface parking lot or a Concord developing single-storey warehouse / light industrial in a suburban municipality that lacks a downtown and existing long-standing built urban form.

Exactly. Hence the only "mall development" currently in downtown Vancouver also happens to be a fluke because the huge Post Office warehouse needed to be preserved. If the site were to be greenfield, we wouldn't be seeing such a large podium. Again we are riding on past glory, as it has always been in modern time Vancouver.

[officedweller]

Yup - the largest scale developments in Vancouver outside the downtown are "opportunistic" redevelopments on historically consolidated properties.

There are now land assemblies along major arterials for condo projects like along Cambie, Oak or Granville, but to date, most of the biggest projects have been on historically consolidated properties - i.e. former industrial, commercial retail (Safeways) or motel sites.

[SpongeG]

Vancouver retailers fear coronavirus fallout

Shopping centres more likely than street-front stores to feel first impact
By Glen Korstrom | February 5, 2020


Downtown Vancouver’s Alberni Street shopping district and its high-end shops attract a lot of wealthy offshore consumers | Chung Chow

Vancouver retailers are warily monitoring news but have yet to notice any downturn in business from shoppers’ fears of contracting the coronavirus 2019-nCoV, which has so far caused 494 deaths and 24,631 infections worldwide.

Even in the Alberni Street shopping district known for high-end shops and plenty of offshore-visitor consumers, store managers told Business in Vancouver that they do not believe shoppers are postponing visits out of a fear of getting the disease.

“Volume is pretty stable,” said Tiffany & Co. sales manager Frank Celentano.

“This was a very successful month for us. Traffic is a bit low, but the people who are coming in are spending.”


Manuel Bernaschek, who owns the Stefano Ricci store on West Georgia Street near the Trump International Hotel and Tower Vancouver, estimated that about 35% to 40% of his customers are visitors to Vancouver from China.

“We still have good days,” he said January 29. “The store was empty yesterday and today, but we had a good weekend.”

He is anticipating that there may be a slowdown in the weeks ahead but that things will then get back to normal.

“The disease has to become much bigger locally for it to impact retailers,” said DIG360 owner and retail analyst David Gray.

“Malls will be the first to feel the impact, versus street-front retailers, but I think it has to be a lot more significant than where we are right now.”

If a spate of new cases of infection arises, and particularly if there are deaths, Gray expects that people will be wary of going to public gatherings.

He believes consumers are being curious about the disease but viewing it as being far away and not yet something that they need to fear.

“We might be washing our hands more, and we’re probably more alert if someone is coughing around us, but I wouldn’t expect that there is much of an impact yet.”

Coffee shops and other public meeting places could be hit, he suggested.

Starbucks Corp.’s (Nasdaq:SBUX) shares slid more than 2% on January 29, a day after it told investors that it has closed “more than half” of its 4,123 stores in China, a country that represents about 10% of its global revenue.

...

https://biv.com/article/2020/02/vanc..._aqqScsfyDcR4I

[Sheba]

Groceries going global as Canadian consumers crave more variety on their plates

It's been three months since Asian grocery chain Sungiven Foods opened its 13,000 square feet flagship store in a mall across from Vancouver city hall.

"We're new, so we need to build our brand," said Terance Fong, senior vice president.

But already the grocer has his eyes set on expanding.

"This year. we want to add six to eight more [stores] in the Lower Mainland," he said.

The ethnic grocer's first store took over a space once occupied by Safeway — the retailer vacated after parent company Sobeys decided to close ten locations across Metro Vancouver.

Sungiven has opened a second store on West Broadway.

"Our philosophy is natural, less additive and less processed," said Fong. The grocery retailer has opened more than 100 stores in China since it was founded in 2011 by Kathy Su and Richard Lian, who lived in Vancouver for several years.

The pair hopes their wide-range of in-house products could give them a leg up with the city's growing Asian population and other Canadians who crave variety in their meals.

Retail experts say offering a variety of international foods may be key in surviving the highly competitive market in Canada.

Retail Insider editor-in-chief Craig Patterson said while it's too early to judge Sungiven's success, it does have the right ingredients.

"Vancouver, I think, makes sense given its connection to Asia," said Patterson. There are nearly 170,000 people living in Vancouver who are of Chinese descent, according to Stats Canada's 2016 census.

"They're promoting healthy food, doing it in fairly small stores … and seem to be catering, at least initially, to urban markets," he said.

Patterson predicts more international grocery stores will come to Canada.

"We've seen this across the country. New concepts that are either homegrown or have come in from other parts of the world. Consumers are a bit more diverse in their palates," said Patterson.

H Mart, a Korean-American supermarket chain, first began its move into Western Canada in 2003 and now has stores in three provinces.

Sungiven Food's closest competitor, T&T Supermarkets, was acquired by Loblaws in 2009 and has expanded to 27 stores in B.C., Alberta and Ontario.

...

Save-on-Foods senior vice president of IT, supply chain and e-commerce Wayne Currie said they're constantly increasing the international products they have on shelves.

The company also owns Asian market PriceSmart Foods. There are currently two locations in B.C., one in Richmond. the other in Burnaby, but Currie said they plan to open up more.

[zahav]

Not sure if anyone posted this here yet, but I posted in the Canada thread a few days ago too:

Retail Council of Canada released their 2019 report, including the list of most productive malls (ie. sales per sq. ft.). Here's the link to the full report, lots of interesting stuff in there. But here's the top 10 list for those who don't like reading lol:

Top 30 Shopping Centres in Canada by Sales Per Square Foot
Rank Shopping Centre Name City/Province Productivity*
1 Yorkdale Shopping Centre Toronto ON $1,964.00
2 CF Pacific Centre Vancouver BC $1,865.00
3 CF Toronto Eaton Centre Toronto ON $1,592.00
4 Park Royal West Vancouver BC $1,342.00
5 Southgate Centre Edmonton AB $1,121.00
6 CF Chinook Centre Calgary AB $1,119.00
7 Square One Mississauga ON $1,108.00
8 CF Sherway Gardens Toronto ON $1,099.00
9 CF Richmond Centre Richmond BC $1,073.00
10 Metropolis at Metrotown Burnaby BC $1,042.00

A couple notes from the report:
• Yorkdale was again the top in the country, and within breathing distance of $2,000 per sq. ft.
• Southgate in Edmonton was the only mall in the top 10 to decrease it's sales per sq. ft.
• Park Royal had the largest % growth of any mall on the list, up a whopping 46%
• Vancouver/Lower Mainland has more shopping centres per capita ranking among the top 30 most productive malls in Canada than any other region

https://www.retailcouncil.org/wp-con..._WEB_v5_f_.pdf

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by zahav

Not sure if anyone posted this here yet, but I posted in the Canada thread a few days ago too:

Retail Council of Canada released their 2019 report, including the list of most productive malls (ie. sales per sq. ft.). Here's the link to the full report, lots of interesting stuff in there. But here's the top 10 list for those who don't like reading lol:

Top 30 Shopping Centres in Canada by Sales Per Square Foot
Rank Shopping Centre Name City/Province Productivity*
1 Yorkdale Shopping Centre Toronto ON $1,964.00
2 CF Pacific Centre Vancouver BC $1,865.00
3 CF Toronto Eaton Centre Toronto ON $1,592.00
4 Park Royal West Vancouver BC $1,342.00
5 Southgate Centre Edmonton AB $1,121.00
6 CF Chinook Centre Calgary AB $1,119.00
7 Square One Mississauga ON $1,108.00
8 CF Sherway Gardens Toronto ON $1,099.00
9 CF Richmond Centre Richmond BC $1,073.00
10 Metropolis at Metrotown Burnaby BC $1,042.00

A couple notes from the report:
• Yorkdale was again the top in the country, and within breathing distance of $2,000 per sq. ft.
• Southgate in Edmonton was the only mall in the top 10 to decrease it's sales per sq. ft.
• Park Royal had the largest % growth of any mall on the list, up a whopping 46%
• Vancouver/Lower Mainland has more shopping centres per capita ranking among the top 30 most productive malls in Canada than any other region

https://www.retailcouncil.org/wp-con..._WEB_v5_f_.pdf

Park Royal surprises me. It’s a wealthy area but there’s not a lot of correspondingly high-end stores and it’s not overly busy. It’s the only mall on the list without an Apple Store, for example. Is it the jewellery stores or the designer departments at Simons? Are Tesla sales included? That Whole Foods is the highest grossing in Canada from what I hear?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Park Royal surprises me. It’s a wealthy area but there’s not a lot of correspondingly high-end stores and it’s not overly busy. It’s the only mall on the list without an Apple Store, for example. Is it the jewellery stores or the designer departments at Simons? Are Tesla sales included? That Whole Foods is the highest grossing in Canada from what I hear?

The problem is the density and a huge alternative a short distance away with Pacific Centre. For everything else non-luxury they are pretty much the only option on the North Shore.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Park Royal surprises me. It’s a wealthy area but there’s not a lot of correspondingly high-end stores and it’s not overly busy. It’s the only mall on the list without an Apple Store, for example. Is it the jewellery stores or the designer departments at Simons? Are Tesla sales included? That Whole Foods is the highest grossing in Canada from what I hear?

Yes, Tesla sales are included. Owners Larco also think the increased foot traffic from the new VIP Cineplex has helped raise sales.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by zahav

• Vancouver/Lower Mainland has more shopping centres per capita ranking among the top 30 most productive malls in Canada than any other region

I can think of one poster here who Will Not Like reading that.

[jollyburger]

I wonder if The Bay raises or lowers the average sales at Park Royal?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Yes, Tesla sales are included. Owners Larco also think the increased foot traffic from the new VIP Cineplex has helped raise sales.

How are earth are Tesla sales included in the psf mall sales? Customers buy Teslas direct through the website, even if they're standing in the store/gallery.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

How are earth are Tesla sales included in the psf mall sales? Customers buy Teslas direct through the website, even if they're standing in the store/gallery.

That's what it says in the report as an explanation for the increase in sales at Park Royal.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

How are earth are Tesla sales included in the psf mall sales? Customers buy Teslas direct through the website, even if they're standing in the store/gallery.

Why not? They need to go to the store first to try out the cars, ask questions, etc. So in fact, but the particular sale is directly attached to that particular mall store branch. I believe the stores also have computers where customer service representatives help customers input data etc. within the store for the purchase.