Queen's Park Politics

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

I highly doubt Horwath has a chance. Anything is possible in politics, but the likelihood is very low. Barring some huge NDP surge, voting for Horwath - just like federally - will only serve to assist the Ontario PC's and Hudak's plan to expand Ford Nation to the provincial level.

In regards to Hudak, the guy is a total quack. He hasn't provided any real plans during his entire campaign. His only message is attacks and tax cuts and cutting. I mean it was only a matter of time before he tanked... I just didn't expect it to happen so early. Hudak has taken the Ontario PC's down tea party lane, and it really isn't working for them.

No one will really know what is going to happen until Oct 6th. I'm most interested how no-plan Hudak will manage, and if Ontarians are stupid enough to vote for such an idiot.

His platform doesn't stand up to his message either. No cuts are mentioned and most of McGuinty's new taxes would remain. That could spell trouble for him getting the conservative base out as well, which is a major reason why John Tory did so horrible. Any Conservative that fails to win most of the rural ridings with a united right clearly has problems with the base.

[Dr Nevergold]

It remains to be seen whether anti-tax conservatives will stick with Hudak when he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth. McGuinty also has cut taxes, he cut income taxes while raising some fees (like the health fee) and implementing the HST (which is largely neutral, save for energy which did receive notably higher taxes). Between income tax reductions and the rebates Ontarians have received, the HST has ended up being a relatively neutral tax except for energy products (hydro, gasoline).

Ontarians need to decide whether they want to put their money where their mouth is. Do you care that energy costs have went up to tear down coal and forge a greener energy pathway, or do you care more about a candidate promising to cut everything government does as a solution to everyone's problems?

Hudak is against McGuinty's HST, but he has no plans to repeal the HST... He's the classic say-anything politician who cares more about power than results or policy.

McGuinty has made real progress, and he's taken lots of political risk in doing so. It is time for Ontario to stand up for a greener, more progressive future or devolve back into a Mike Harris mess of conservative anti-government policy.

It is a campaign of the can-do and the can't do attitude.. A genuine, long time Liberal vs Conservative argument. I can't wait for Oct 6th!

BTW, despite the obvious mishaps with eHealth - the largest McGuinty blunder - Ontario does have an operational electronic medical records system now. It isn't like the entire program was a total waste... Ontario's health system has improved radically under McGuinty.



---
On the HST issue, I think people are forgetting it's benefits. The HST cuts out a lot of duplicate taxation and red tape. Instead of businesses having to file for two different taxes, it tremendously reduces red tape and makes it a singular, unified tax. Anyone who knows an accountant knows someone who approves of the HST... The reduced bookkeeping alone will save Ontario businesses tens of millions of dollars.

For large purchases, the HST is a cost saver. When you purchase a car, for example, the old system would tax the PST and GST on top of each other.

For example... A car costing $20,000 would be taxed at 6% then that amount would be taxed another 7%.

$20,000 x 1.06 = 21,200 (GST) + 21,200 x 1.07 = 22,684 (PST) total
With HST its not got the double taxation... $20,000 x 1.13 = $22,600 (HST) total.

The savings are more appearant when buying a $300,000 condo.

$300k x 1.06 = $318k (GST) + 318k x 1.07 (PST) = $340,260 total (GST/PST)
$300k x 1.13 = $339,000 total (HST)
$1,260 savings

So, $84 or $1,260 savings on such a large purchase really is pennies on the dollar, but the point is the HST isn't all bad. It reduces red tape, it stops double taxation, and it is more efficient. When you add this up in business terms, it collectively has a huge macro level difference. A business - as opposed to individuals - that ends up spending millions within a year will end up with more cash on hand to hire a few extra workers or pay workers more. It is the right move to make for Ontario's economy, the Liberals weren't trying to pull one over the voters. It came from a rational belief that reduced red tape and ending double taxation is a good thing.

As far as higher energy prices go, do any of you really believe taxes are at the root of high oil prices? A one time structural tax increase is not the issue. Oil is a resource that is traded on a world market, and it is subject to speculation and oil traders. The HST being implemented on petroleum isn't the problem, the reliance on oil is the problem. Oil will go to $2.00 a litre with or without HST....

The anger against the HST is unfounded. If oil becomes cheaper, gasoline can become $1.00 a litre again even with the HST. Oil prices aren't dictated by taxes, and the government needs the revenue to fund green energy projects.

Ultimately BC is the loser in this, Ontario is the gainer, and while BC will suffer through deficit and poorer job growth, Ontario will now have a healthier budget and healther business environment.

The McGuinty Liberals did a good thing with the HST. The HST is the right way to go, and everyone knows it who is a policy wonk. Hence why no party dares to repeal it.

If you want to help high oil prices, you create the environment for more jobs and higher jobs wage growth so that people can pay for energy, you don't start by lowering taxes to zero and doing nothing... And that is what no-plan Hudak is suggesting. Lower taxes, cut spending, and magically everything improves. Usually that's not how the market works, the market will take advantage of those industries and individuals at a disadvantage and the monopolies run the show.

With Hudak, Green Energy has no chance, Ontario's health care has no chance, and Ontario's people will have no plans for leadership.

What will happen to Ottawa's LRT project? Toronto's transit investments?? Will there be another hole to fill, just like Harris filled in the holes for the Eglinton subway in the 1990's?

What more regressive anti-policy could occur under a Hudak non-government?

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

So Yasir Naqvi (MPP Ottawa Centre) dropped by our neighbourhood yesterday. I had a lovely political discussion with him and he's invited me, win or lose, for a coffee or beer after the election. Stage one of my plan to become Prime Minister is complete. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Apparently, the Liberals are trying to encourage and develop the infrastructure for electric vehicles in Ontario. Electric Toyota RAV4's are being built and tested in Woodstock, Ontario.

I like how the Liberals are actually trying things and have a plan they are implementing instead of doing what the PC's are doing, which is essentially "Cut taxes! Eliminate bureaucracy!" and rarely anything substantial. It's all just pandering to the basic person who has the attention span of a goldfish.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

When real poll numbers are our please post them

Real poll numbers come out at 9pm on October 6th. A sample of 650 people in a province of 14 million is pretty good when you consider that the polls for the federal election sampled about 1,500 people for 34.5 million and those were pretty accurate.

I wouldn't be too surprised if that was a close representation of how Ontarians really feel, either. A lot of the support for the PCs in my region has sort of dissolved lately. I know many people, including long-time supporters, who are frustrated by unclear and changing policies, and this on top of the fact that Conservatives in this region always choose pretty shitty candidates.

Thunder Bay-Atikokan's PC candidate was Mr. Highest Paid Civil Servant NWO from 2004 to 2010 and he opposes the existence of Wifi. Thunder Bay-Superior North's PC candidate thinks that Thunder Bay was a serious candidate to host the Phoenix Coyotes if they went bankrupt because "We're in the middle of Canada!!" Neither of these candidates seem particularly Conservative to me, which is why I was so surprised that they were chosen. The last election saw a poverty/native rights activist run in TB-Atikokan, and a 24 year old university student in TB-SupNorth. As you know, in Ontario, when the PCs run moderate candidates, they don't draw votes, and the Liberals end up winning.

Now, the NDP's candidates are all school teachers, volunteers and "Mr. Mantis has a long career as a civil servant for the following 243 government organizations", but they've got an actual, predictable (except for the HST thing) ideology behind them with a committed base. The PCs have been all over the place since Harris fucked up the party's image. They went from John Tory, who is arguably more liberal than McGuinty, to a guy who seems to be flipping between Tea Party North and Liberal Lite depending on who he talks to.

After John Tory lost, the PCs should have held a leadership election immediately. Waiting a couple years has been a disaster for them, and they elected the wrong guy for it. They should have stuck with the centre to take a bite out of the Liberals, especially considering what has happened federally in the past few months.

[haljackey]

What do 'yall think of this?

• Video Link

[vid]

The $35 Billion dollar price tag reminds me more of the NDP than PCs, but this could be his chance to show that he isn't like Harris by investing some of that into building interchanges along the Thunder Bay Expressway, an NDP project that was cancelled by Harris in 1995. It would almost eliminate gridlock in this city.

The gas tax issue concerns me. He has said in the past that he will not reduce the amount of money that municipalities already getting the gas tax receive, while emphasizing the platform point of giving all 444 municipalities a share in the gas tax. He has not yet stated his position on increasing the gas tax, or increasing other taxes to make up for the lost portions of the gas tax currently going to other government programmes.

Aside from the possible environmental destruction (the Changebook North plan would likely exhaust the wood supply in this region at a fast rate, leading to a larger and harder bust about 15 to 20 years down the road, and destroying much of the environment in the process; it disregards the needs of aboriginal people who live off the land), their plan from the North is better than the Liberal's. The NDP just announced theirs so I don't know what is in it. But again, this shows Hudak trailing away from the legacy of Harris and into the legacy of Rae. It's very confusing. Northern Ontario suffered more under Harris, not McGuinty (a fact he doesn't know because he isn't from here, and his Northern critic is from Harris' home region around North Bay which received large investments from Harris under his government and didn't suffer an economic downtown from 1996 to 2004), and a wide variety of statistics (housing starts, unemployment, population, city tax rates, building permits) all show a sharp decline beginning in about 1994 to 1996, bottoming out around 2000-2002 and picking back up in 2005. By almost every measure we didn't do well under Harris and I think when people up here put more thought into the previous experience with a PC government they'll realize that. The Liberals haven't been perfect and almost all of our building permit growth is government led (something we'll likely lose or see a decline in under a PC government) but you can't deny that this city and the general region is better off now than is was 10 years ago.

I like their tax plan except for the ambiguity about where, exactly, the hydro debt is going. They're taking it off our bills, but it will still exist. Government revenue will go down with the broad 5% tax cut (which hopefully is a decrease by five percentage points, and not just a decrease from 8.5% to 8.06%, which is a five percent reduction of the rate; I'd only save 30 dollars a year that way), and with his spending plans, I don't quite see how he is going to eliminate the debt and deficit, which, according to the Conservative supports I know, is a bigger concern than actual tax rates.

His budget video doesn't mention the deficit. That kind of surprises me. A lot of emphasis on health care and education and the perennial "we're going to go through everything and get rid of the crap" promise.

The personal accountability video (which I was hoping would examine his position on deficit and debt but does not) mentions the welfare system. The policies sound good, but having experienced the welfare system and used it to find work, I think it actually works quite well. It is the people in the system that aren't motivated. The system has to be fixed to help motivate people more, and he doesn't mention that. Streamlining is good, but there needs to be more encouragement for people on welfare to get out and find work. I think it needs to be more like a life coach service. People on welfare typically come from unstructured homes, so if the welfare system can provide structure and leadership for them instead of just being "a thing to go to", that might improve the situation. I imagine a PC party would find that idea "silly" or "socialist" or something, though. The promise at the end of easing the transition from welfare to work sounds good, but he gives no real details.

No mention of aboriginal issues in any of the videos, which keeps up the Provincial tradition of simply not giving a fuck. Going back to the welfare video, he mentions a residency requirement. Hopefully this doesn't mean considering reserves as not part of Ontario. While I will admit that there is a lot of welfare fraud in the aboriginal community, there are also a lot of aboriginal people using the welfare system to find work and succeeding. We don't want to backtrack on that.

Generally the videos are more optimistic than I was expecting but also quite vague. The viewer has to sort of draw their own conclusions as I just did, and as you can see, it results in a more favourable image for the PCs. But that lack of clearly defining what we should expect (and Changebook isn't much more specific for many points) means that a lot of people might end up disappointed once his plans are put into place. (If he wins. It seemed more likely a few months ago than it does now.)

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by haljackey

What do 'yall think of this?
-snip-

I think it's stupid, vague, vapid and full of typical Conservative BS.

1. "Worst commute in North America". It's BS and misleading since Hudak pulled that number from a list of 19 global cities (including London and Berlin) and the worst commute is only referencing Toronto, and not all of Ontario.

2. "$35 Billion infrastructure". For what? He fails to mention what it's for (I have a feeling it's more roads, so more people can drive and pollute).

3. "If a project can help families get home faster to spend more times together, it moves to the top of the list". Ah, idealistic pandering. I knew you'd be in here somewhere. As far as the content of his little spiel, most people commute by car to and from the suburbs (stupid) and the arrangement of the suburbs encourages you to drive everywhere (also stupid). Fixing up roads and adding more roads is not going to substantially reduce commutes since it only promotes more car traffic.

4. "Share the gas tax with all municipalities". Not all municipalities need it since a major purpose of the gas tax is used to promote public transit and making it cheaper, easier, more accessible, etc. If we're trying to promote more public transit, the last thing the gas tax credit is going to be used for is more roads and bridges. And lord knows we need bridges in Ontario.

Everybody pays the same gas tax, because that's how taxing a population works, and a lot of us drive cars or have several cars. Municipalities already have budgets and can ask the provincial and federal government for money to assist in certain projects. The gas tax is one of those things that is deliberately and purposefully aimed at targetting cars in order to promote sustainable living and promoting public transit, which is part of the Liberal's plans for a "Green Ontario".

5. "...Instead of Dalton McGuinty deciding those things..." Right Hudak, as opposed to what your theoretical government would constantly tell us what to do and what not to do? We don't need another Rob Ford in Ontario.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Oh, and I have a fun news story to share with you "fiscal conservatives". I have a feeling it'll be ignored since it's from the "biased" CBC, but take a gander anyway.

Hudak defends MPP who owes back taxes

Tim Hudak's campaign mantra that Progressive Conservatives are the only ones who will defend hardworking taxpayers was derailed Friday by revelations that a high-profile Tory is embroiled in a long-running tax dispute.

After making his economic pitch to a Toronto business audience, Hudak came to the defence of rural Conservative Randy Hillier, who reportedly owes about $15,000 in unpaid taxes to the Canada Revenue Agency.

The Tory leader said he hasn't spoken to Hillier since the tax squabble went public, but party officials have been in touch with him.

"Randy is negotiating the payment for those taxes as we speak, so it will be taken care of," Hudak said after a speech to the Economic Club of Canada.

"He assured us that he is negotiating a settlement for those taxes."

Hudak brushed off suggestions that Hillier's dispute may have undermined the Tories' campaign message of defending families who "play by the rules," but wouldn't say if he'll dump the rural activist.

Full article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontari...xes-hudak.html

[vid]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

2. "$35 Billion infrastructure". For what? He fails to mention what it's for (I have a feeling it's more roads, so more people can drive and pollute).

I just assume it is for roads in suburbs. He said "reducing gridlock so that families can spend time together". Everyone knows that people who use public transit don't have families! Regardless of how bad it is needed, the mid-peninsula freeway will be at the top of this list. He has to get re-elected somehow.

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

If we're trying to promote more public transit, the last thing the gas tax credit is going to be used for is more roads and bridges. And lord knows we need bridges in Ontario.

Existing bridges need repairs. That is what he is referring to. The money would go to improving roads instead of improving public transit. My city just re-routed a bus route because the bridge it was using can no longer support the weight of a bus, so there are spin-offs to public transit from that kind of investment. (They key thing to note in that specific situation however is that it is a railway bridge—privately owned, and under federal jurisdiction).

A PC government would never support public transit. That's pretty much a given.

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

Everybody pays the same gas tax, because that's how taxing a population works

Not in the Conservative's mind. They believe that a person is only taxed if they pay that tax directly. Indirect taxes don't count.

Kind of ironic when you think about it. The excess of $2,000 from my rent that goes to property tax for the building I live in is apparently worth less than the $1,400 a year those "Conservatives" pay on their houses nearby, and as I said before, they consider me to be "transient" because I don't personally own the land I live on.

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

"...Instead of Dalton McGuinty deciding those things..." Right Hudak, as opposed to what your theoretical government would constantly tell us what to do and what not to do? We don't need another Rob Ford in Ontario.

Especially ironic when you consider how targeted his campaign is to "families". He'll decide where things go just as much as McGuinty and Horwath would do the same.

As for Hillier... I am honestly not surprised that he owes taxes. He seems to think he is the Premier of Northern Ontario at times. He lives in rural Ottawa.

[SteelTown]

That $35 billion figure for infrastructure no doubt includes the cost of a new Highway from Hamilton Airport to the Niagara (Hudak's riding). Harris funded the highway and than the Liberals slowed it down with more EA, delayed it more recently.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by haljackey

What do 'yall think of this?

• Video Link

Tim Hudak is saying that the gas tax should transit ridership shouldn't be part of the equation when it comes to the share of the gas tax that municipalities receive (currently it based 70% of transit ridership and 30% on population). And he's also saying quite bluntly the too much gas tax money is spent on transit, and it should be spent on roads and highways instead.

I think it great that at least one party leaders cares about the real Ontarians instead of pandering to the "foreign workers". Hudak 2011!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Doady

Tim Hudak is saying that the gas tax should transit ridership shouldn't be part of the equation when it comes to the share of the gas tax that municipalities receive (currently it based 70% of transit ridership and 30% on population). And he's also saying quite bluntly the too much gas tax money is spent on transit, and it should be spent on roads and highways instead.

I think it great that at least one party leaders cares about the real Ontarians instead of pandering to the "foreign workers". Hudak 2011!!!!!!!!!!!!1

You can't be serious...

[Dr Nevergold]

I love how he uses the typical Conservative mantra "we'll let local leaders decide instead of Dalton McGuinty" yet we've seen when Cons get in power, they love to dictate their viewpoint stronger than anyone.

Rob Ford, anyone? He proclaims Ford Nation and throws out threats left and right.

Everyone should be wary how good Conservatives are at selling their ideas. For example, Rob Ford wants to sell all Waterfront Toronto properties to the private sector, he comes up with some hideously expensive plan that has no chance of actually being realized in order to pitch the sell.

These people aren't interested in governing, they're interested in selling and buying power.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

I love how he uses the typical Conservative mantra "we'll let local leaders decide instead of Dalton McGuinty" yet we've seen when Cons get in power, they love to dictate their viewpoint stronger than anyone.

Rob Ford, anyone? He proclaims Ford Nation and throws out threats left and right.

Rob Ford isn't the best example for that. Megacity is. The PCs forced dozens of amalgamations on Ontario, without the consent or approval of citizens, during the Common Sense Revolution and in the 1960s and 1970s, under Robarts and Davis. I can't think of any amalgamations that happened under Liberal or NDP governments.

Downloading is another example. The province just decided for us that welfare and minor highways would be supported through higher property taxes instead of existing income taxes, with very little input from municipalities, which are now responsible for those and other things.

[JHikka]

Ontarians: I'm going to be in your province during the last week of the election, volunteering at polls and generally just helping out with the democratic process. I believe i'm going to be in North York.

Is there anything I should know about this area at all? The only time i've ever been in your province was on a school trip to Ottawa when I was 13.

I'm only slightly familiar with Ontario politics.

Thanks!

[vid]

As a volunteer at the polling station, you're not really supposed to share any political opinions. You just make sure the vote goes smoothly. Shouldn't be a problem as long as you're not wearing a political party's colours. That can get you into trouble.

[toaster]

I hope this includes getting rid of the Right-In/Right-Out section of highway 400 just south of Barrie (making it an actual freeway). Also would like to see highway 417 twinned right through to North Bay (it is continuing construction west of Armprior, but no one really knows how far west they are going). Also would like to see Highway 11 gain 400-series status (as Highway 411), and bypass the RIRO part near Orillia aswell.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by vid

As a volunteer at the polling station, you're not really supposed to share any political opinions. You just make sure the vote goes smoothly. Shouldn't be a problem as long as you're not wearing a political party's colours. That can get you into trouble.

Funny thing. During the New Brunswick election this past year I was a scrutineer and none of the other parties even put forth their own scrutineers. It was depressing, to say the least.

I'm certainly hoping politics means a lot more in Ontario than it does here in NB.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by vid

Rob Ford isn't the best example for that. Megacity is. The PCs forced dozens of amalgamations on Ontario, without the consent or approval of citizens, during the Common Sense Revolution and in the 1960s and 1970s, under Robarts and Davis. I can't think of any amalgamations that happened under Liberal or NDP governments.

London 1993, is an example we swallowed up Lambeth and minor settlements around our area. Those local residents were quiet pissed and campaigned vigorously against it (although people in London were cool with it) all care of Bob Rae.

Originally Posted by vid

Downloading is another example. The province just decided for us that welfare and minor highways would be supported through higher property taxes instead of existing income taxes, with very little input from municipalities, which are now responsible for those and other things.

Highbury Avenue (former highway 126) was decommissioned in 1989 by the Peterson Liberals and Airport/VMP (former highway 100) was decommissioned in 1994 by Rae NDP.

All leaders of all political stripes have downloaded stuff. Feds to provinces, Provinces to municipalities, its not the exclusive realm of any political parties, Liberals always like to bemoan Harris PC downloads, while totally ignoring Chretien Liberal transfer cuts.

The main thing now is to decide what are essentials that deserve the funding of senior levels of government and what are frills that localities want others to pay for.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Funny thing. During the New Brunswick election this past year I was a scrutineer and none of the other parties even put forth their own scrutineers. It was depressing, to say the least.

I'm certainly hoping politics means a lot more in Ontario than it does here in NB.

Each riding is different... It is hard to get the proper support for every single riding no matter what province it is.