Midwest Regional Rail Initiative

[Busy Bee]

As much as it is sad that the only other two bidders and losers were domestic companies, I'm kind of glad they lost. American companies just can't seem to build a 21st century passenger locomotive - at least one that LOOKS worthy of plowing our rails. Siemens makes a high quality product and they have a natural grasp on the importance of aesthetics. As for the lack of competition, is there really any evidence that is would have significantly driven down the per unit cost? If it won't be a home made locomotive pulling our national passenger service, I'm happy that it's a German one - with a proven track record and virtually no concern for their quality.

One thing I would like to know is how the new FRA waiver will effect this procurement.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

As much as it is sad that the only other two bidders and losers were domestic companies, I'm kind of glad they lost. American companies just can't seem to build a 21st century passenger locomotive - at least one that LOOKS worthy of plowing our rails. Siemens makes a high quality product and they have a natural grasp on the importance of aesthetics. As for the lack of competition, is there really any evidence that is would have significantly driven down the per unit cost? If it won't be a home made locomotive pulling our national passenger service, I'm happy that it's a German one - with a proven track record and virtually no concern for their quality.

One thing I would like to know is how the new FRA waiver will effect this procurement.

While much of the Siemens locomotives will have European parts, 60% of the parts should be made in America, and all these locomotives will have final assembly in America (most likely California). It will not be as much German as you suggest.

[Busy Bee]

Possible rendering of the new Siemens-Cummins partnership locos for the midwest from the Railway Age website. Looks promising, could turn out much different though of course:


Railway Age

[ardecila]

Interesting. I wonder if the colors are more than just a rendering sample. Green would match the Cascades paint scheme, blue the Amtrak California and Red the (hypothetical) MWRRI scheme, as seen on the Wisconsin Talgos.

That would explain the positioning of the trains in the rendering too, where the Midwest is the majority of the locomotive order.

[LouisVanDerWright]

When will the Talgos be rolling out? I haven't heard anything about it since like 2009. Also what route are they running? Chicago to Detroit? Chicago to Milwaukee? Chicago to St Louis?

[Markitect]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

When will the Talgos be rolling out? I haven't heard anything about it since like 2009. Also what route are they running? Chicago to Detroit? Chicago to Milwaukee? Chicago to St Louis?

Not anytime soon. Talgo is suing the State of Wisconsin for breach of contract. These two already-built-but-mothballed trainsets were to be used on the Chicago-Milwaukee Hiawatha.

The two trainsets built for Oregon moved out to the west coast several months ago.

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Markitect

Not anytime soon. Talgo is suing the State of Wisconsin for breach of contract. These two already-built-but-mothballed trainsets were to be used on the Chicago-Milwaukee Hiawatha.

The two trainsets built for Oregon moved out to the west coast several months ago.

So instead of taking $810 million in grant money to improve rail infrastructure they may be on the hook for $136 million and get nothing..... makes sense!

[Busy Bee]

Conservative thinking at its' best - err, worst.

[Mister Uptempo]

Just thought I'd bring this up, for anyone interested in the CHI-JOL and Granite City-STL segments of CHI-STL HrSR project.


Monday, February 24, 2014 - Chicago to Joliet Tier 2 Study
4 PM to 7 PM
Chicago Union Station
The Union Gallery
500 W. Jackson Boulevard
Chicago, IL 60661

Wednesday, February 26, 2014- Chicago to Joliet Tier 2 Study
4 PM to 7 PM
Jacob Henry Mansion - Victorian Ballroom
15 S. Richards St.
Joliet, IL 60433

Thursday, February 27, 2014- Chicago to Joliet Tier 2 Study
4 PM to 7 PM
Homewood Suites
16245 S. LaGrange Road
Orland Park, IL 60467

Tuesday, February 25, 2014 - Granite City to St. Louis Tier 2 Study
5:00 PM to 7:30 PM
Jackie Joyner-Kersee Center
101 Jackie Joyner-Kersee Circle
East St. Louis, IL 62204

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by electricron

While much of the Siemens locomotives will have European parts, 60% of the parts should be made in America, and all these locomotives will have final assembly in America (most likely California). It will not be as much German as you suggest.

Building passenger diesel locomotives is something Caterpillar EMD and GE are more than capable of making. Caterpillar EMD, from what I understand, is contesting the contract.

The problem with US manufacturers lies more in electric locomotives and EMD units for large commuter and light rail cars.

On top of that we have lost the ability to make high quality passenger rail car bogies, almost lost our ability to cut and weld stainless steel cheaply, and, above all, we largely have lost the associated companies that provide components.

We have a few very courageous companies that are trying to enter the light rail, street car, and, commuter EMD markets but they are having to deal with complex safety standards with shallow financial pockets, as well as having to set up parts networks from scratch.

Look at the competition: Bombardier, Alstrom, Hitachi, Siemens, huge new Chinese companies, and, a host of other companies.

In my opinion, the Federal Government (Congress!) has never provided a consistent, reasonably large passenger rail budget that would have enabled US companies to make plant investments and have a chance to both pay off incurred debts and make a profit.

Of course, our very short term profit basis in both public and private companies has destroyed much of our manufacturing capacity.

Short time too many of our companies make multiples of inflation, while long term these same company boardrooms are run by idiots.

[Xing]

Possible new Amtrak station for East St Louis, adjacent to the busiest metrolink station on the Illinois side of St Louis.

St. Clair County may chip in $500K for high speed rail station in East St. Louis
BY DANIEL KELLEY
News-DemocratFebruary 23, 2014 Updated 13 hours ago

Amtrak train.
AP

St. Clair County leaders are considering committing $500,000 to lure a high speed rail station to East St. Louis as part of the state's project connecting St. Louis and Chicago with a 284-mile rail track capable of allowing trains reach 110 mph.

The St. Clair County Board will consider using the money to aid the state's Department of Transportation with the design and planning of the station, which would be adjacent to the MetroLink on River Park Drive. Board members will likely vote on the proposal during a meeting on Monday night.

County Board Chairman Mark Kern asked County Board members to support the station during the board's Economic Development Committee on Thursday.

"We are the only county with MetroLink so that will allow ... all the communities in St. Clair County to be attached to high speed rail," Kern said. "If a station isn't built in East St. Louis, you'll have to travel to Alton or St. Louis to get on a high speed train. Alton is probably a half hour, 45 minutes (to reach by car). If you have to travel to St. Louis, you will be leaving your home to cross the bridge to get on a train that will then backtrack just where you were. Then when you are coming back, the train will pass your home on its way to St. Louis."

Read more here: http://www.bnd.com/2014/02/23/307579...#storylink=cpy

[ardecila]

Did anyone go to the Chicago-Joliet corridor meeting today? I couldn't make it.

[denizen467]

^ There was an article in advance of the meeting offering some observations on the St Louis HSR project. Apparently the 40 mile urban section, out to Joliet, could eat up half the entire budget. Daunting, but not surprising.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7253433.story
Improving portion of high-speed rail corridor could cost $1.5 billion
...
Amtrak service between Chicago and Joliet currently operates on the Metra Heritage Corridor tracks, with average speeds as slow as 30 mph and travel times as long as 90 minutes.
...
The Federal Railroad Administration has approved a plan to move Amtrak service to the Metra Rock Island District Corridor between Chicago and Joliet. The goal involves reducing trip times to about 45 minutes... .
...
IDOT projects that 75 percent of the entire high-speed corridor -- between Dwight and Alton -- will be serving 110 mph trains by the end of 2015. ...

[Chi-Sky21]

Metra Heritage Corridor needs some serious upgrading and much more frequent trains. Lemont and Lockport have been growing in population and could really use the expanded service.

[ardecila]

Maybe. I vote we just write off the Heritage Corridor as too freight-choked. Let the development go to Mokena and New Lenox...

[Chi-Sky21]

The development is ALREADY there in Lemont and Lockport. The population in this area has grown a lot. A lot of people end up having to drive over to Orland to catch the much more frequent SWS or just end up driving to work. I don't think it would be THAT hard to add 2 more trains in the morning and evening. If the state/government is going to spend money to upgrade service (CREATE)that the freight lines benefit from the freight lines need to accommodate more frequent trains.

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

The development is ALREADY there in Lemont and Lockport. The population in this area has grown a lot. A lot of people end up having to drive over to Orland to catch the much more frequent SWS or just end up driving to work. I don't think it would be THAT hard to add 2 more trains in the morning and evening. If the state/government is going to spend money to upgrade service (CREATE)that the freight lines benefit from the freight lines need to accommodate more frequent trains.

I think the Englewood Flyover will permit more frequent Rock Island trains - that one crossing causes so many jams.

[Mister Uptempo]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Did anyone go to the Chicago-Joliet corridor meeting today? I couldn't make it.

Had the opportunity to attend the Orland Park meeting this evening. Nothing new to report, really. The available information was largely from the Tier 1 EIS.

I spoke to two representatives, one who seemed very well informed, and the other...well...someone had to tell him that the Englewood Flyover was, in fact, part of the Rock Island Corridor, and that work on it was well underway.

At this time, they are still favoring the 40th Street connection from the Rock Island tracks to Union Station. They mentioned the St. Charles Air Line as an interim solution, but without a new flyover. It would still require the back up maneuver. As others have mentioned here before, the rep said Amtrak is not liking the idea of sacrificing any space to accommodate a new connection. No other alternatives for getting into Union Station from the Rock Island were mentioned.

Regarding triple tracking the Rock Island, the rep told me that nothing has been decided, but if any section gets triple tracked, it would most likely be from the 75th Street Corridor improvements(whenever that gets done), where the SouthWest Service would jump onto Rock Island tracks, to LaSalle Street Station.

When the subject of a suburban station was brought up, many of the current Metra stations that could serve that purpose, and have been discussed in this thread, were addressed-

-Blue Island - The rep liked Blue Island's transit connections, but mentioned that any segregated long-term parking might need to be "more secure" at the Blue Island station. Of the four potential stations discussed, he said that Blue Island is probably number 3 on the list.

-Midlothian - Closest to I-294, would need more parking.

-Tinley Park - Great facilities and plenty of parking, but the location isn't optimal. He mentioned that if someone from the Western suburbs, for example, wanted to catch the train, taking I-294 would be of no help, and if one used I-355 instead, they might as well just drive to Joliet.

-Oak Forest - The rep mentioned this one. With phase 1 of the I-294/I-57 interchange to be completed by the end of 2014, getting to the Oak Forest station from the 159th Street exit would be fairly easy. Parking, again, was a concern.

My impression was that the station rankings are as follows-
Midlothian and Oak Forest - tied for first
Blue Island - third
Tinley Park - fourth
barring, of course, a new station being built for this project.

Someone asked about electrification of the route at some point in the future. The rep responded that while he thought electrifying the Rock Island corridor was a great idea, for Metra's sake, electrifying the entire CHI-STL route would probably never happen because UP is running double stack trains on the route south of Joliet.

I would imagine that the presentation materials from these scoping meetings will be posted on the IDOT HSR site soon. The presentation from the Granite City - STL meeting, that was held yesterday, is already posted.

[ardecila]

Thanks for the info. I still think Blue Island is the best choice for a mid-suburban station... they can build a new, secure parking garage in Blue Island but they can't replicate the transit connections in Midlothian or Oak Forest.

I've expressed my opinion before but a direct connection from the SCAL to Union Station is by far the best choice. Amtrak would only lose two yard tracks but they would gain a dedicated mainline into Chicago with no freight conflicts at any point. Hell, they can fill in the river if they need to replace the lost yard tracks (nothing natural about the river here...)

[jpIllInoIs]

Originally Posted by ardecila

Thanks for the info. I still think Blue Island is the best choice for a mid-suburban station... they can build a new, secure parking garage in Blue Island but they can't replicate the transit connections in Midlothian or Oak Forest.

I've expressed my opinion before but a direct connection from the SCAL to Union Station is by far the best choice. Amtrak would only lose two yard tracks but they would gain a dedicated mainline into Chicago with no freight conflicts at any point. Hell, they can fill in the river if they need to replace the lost yard tracks (nothing natural about the river here...)

Using a new Grand Crossing connection to IC to SCAL is one of the 4 remaining Routes that the folks at SOTL reRoute are considering. Although they have not issued the final Record of Decision. http://greatlakesrail.org/~grtlakes/...esentation.pdf

Actually Steven Vance at CHI streetsblog has just written a good summary of the IDOT CHI-Stl proposal. But the coordination between agencies would benefit the Michigan Services, Illini/Saluki/CONO and also and the Hoosier/Cardinal.