Electric Scooters

[zzptichka]

Will somebody finally tell the City that sidewalk geofencing is a ridiculous ask and can't possibly work? When you are on downtown Laurier (supposedly your main scooter artery), your GPS has +/- 50m accuracy because of all the tall buildings.

Maybe try actually writing "No sidewalk riding" or "Sidewalk riding = $100 fine" on actual scooters where people see it, like they do in San Francisco for example?

[trhgr]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Will somebody finally tell the City that sidewalk geofencing is a ridiculous ask and can't possibly work? When you are on downtown Laurier (supposedly your main scooter artery), your GPS has +/- 50m accuracy because of all the tall buildings.

Maybe try actually writing "No sidewalk riding" or "Sidewalk riding = $100 fine" on actual scooters where people see it, like they do in San Francisco for example?

Good idea. And while police does its job enforcing scooter bylaws, they might as well do the same for bikes using the sidewalks.

[rocketphish]

E-scooters ready to roll with safety upgrades, city says
Neuron scooters to return Wednesday, Birds to follow next week

CBC News
Posted: Jul 05, 2022 4:56 PM ET | Last Updated: 1 hour ago

Shareable e-scooters are returning to downtown Ottawa streets after a delayed start to the 2022 season, and the city is hoping they'll be safer for both users and pedestrians.

Under the pilot project, which city council extended for a third year in March, the battery-powered, GPS-enabled scooters popped up in late May last year and in mid-July in 2020.

In a news release, the city said two companies have been selected to return this season: Bird Canada and Neuron Mobility. A third company that has operated in Ottawa, Lime Electric Scooters, will not return this year.

Neuron scooters will hit the streets on Wednesday, followed by Bird next week.

According to the city, this year's launch will take place in a few select neighbourhoods, then expand to other areas if new features designed to enhance safety are shown to be working properly.

The e-scooters will now emit a continuous sound that will alert others when one is near. New embedded technology will also deter riders from using the sidewalk, and encourage proper parking, the city said.

Riders who fail to park their scooters safely will face extra fees, and those who disregard other rules could be slapped with additional fines and even barred from using the apps, according to the city.

That's meant to address concerns raised by accessibility advocates who complained the scooters were often left cluttering sidewalks, creating a hazard.

The scooters will be available for use from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. throughout the season.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tawa-1.6511106

[rocketphish]

E-scooters could return to Ottawa streets in May, subject to last year's stricter rules
City staff are also recommending that the maximum fleet size for 900 stay at 900 between the two approved operators.

Taylor Blewett, Ottawa Citizen
Published Mar 17, 2023 • Last updated 5 hours ago • 3 minute read



If last year was the make-or-break season for Ottawa’s shared e-scooter program, then city staff have given companies Bird Canada and Neuron Mobility passing grades.

Next Thursday, the transportation committee will consider whether to green-light a fourth season for the zippy, historically contentious devices. With council and committee’s blessing, scooters could hit the streets as early as May 15 and return in 2024 for a fifth year without needing another council approval.

The city implemented an “aggressive” set of restrictions and requirements on the two e-scooter operators allowed to participate in the program in 2022 following complaints about sidewalk riding and haphazard parking that dogged previous seasons.

The changes contributed to a shorter season, smaller operating area and significant drop in ridership last year as e-scooter operators adjusted to the higher bar they had to meet to continue to offering their devices on city streets. Overall, staff observed that the operators seemed to have worked well to address behaviours that caused such consternation.

In a 50-page report for committee and council consideration, staff recommend continuing the e-scooter pilot for 2023 and potentially 2024 as well, “based on the demonstrated demand for shared e-scooters, the support for local businesses, and as an alternative mobility choice that could replace car trips.”

If councillors agree, the city would stick with Bird and Neuron as the two permitted operators and plan for the same deployment area where scooters were permitted over the past two seasons. While this zone stretches from Maitland Avenue in the west, Queen Elizabeth Drive and Baseline Road in the south, Aviation Parkway in the east and follows the Ottawa River to the north, staff report that the companies only deployed scooters in a portion of that space last year, concentrating on the city’s core.

Staff are also recommending that the maximum fleet size stay at 900 between the two companies, but that staff be given discretion to allow this to increase to 1,200 next year, “should the providers performance standards continue to improve and there is a demonstrated demand.”

The city would also maintain the stricter regime they imposed on e-scooter companies last year, when geofencing and AI technology was used to limit parking to designated spaces and to bring illicit sidewalk riders to a halt. All scooters were also outfitted so they would emit continuous sounds while moving, a requirement that may be a North American first, staff noted.

A city survey conducted near the tail end of the 2022 scooter season found that “many users were seeking an increase in the coverage area and/or availability of e-scooters.”

It’s a frustration with the program that Somerset Ward Coun. Ariel Troster knows well.

“I do think we need a last-mile solution,” Troster said Friday, referring to transportation modes like e-scooters or bikes that could ferry people between their final destinations and the public transit system.

“I think the tweaks that were made to the scooters in terms of accessibility were helpful last summer, but I also think we need to look at having them function within a broader urban grid so people can actually use them for where they need to go.”

Staff noted they do have the option to either cap scooter deployment in certain areas of the city or to set minimum daily deployment requirements in certain areas “to help address equity concerns.”

The e-scooter program is revenue-neutral for the city. Its estimated $195,000 cost for 2023 will be recouped through fees charged to the scooter companies.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...stricter-rules

[rocketphish]

Love them or hate them, e-scooters have found a niche in this Ottawa neighbourhood

Sarah MacFarlane, OBJ
April 26, 2023 | 10:23 AM ET

While Paris may have banned shared e-scooters from its streets over safety and clutter concerns, one neighbourhood in Ottawa is fast becoming an e-scooter hotspot.

Repair and Run on Richmond Road sells and repairs privately owned e-scooters and e-bikes and co-founder Youssef Botros said he is seeing an increase in demand and interest, especially with the early warm weather.

“Everyone and their mother wants to buy them right now,” he said. “You can sell them online, buy them at Costco, everyone is buying them, but there isn’t a place to service them. That’s where we come in.”

E-scooters, bikes and e-bikes are available for purchase, but Botros said he sees more demand for servicing and repairs. The store features a workshop where customers can interact with technicians. His shop provides quick servicing for products, usually with same-day turnarounds, and also offers a “come-to-you” service for at-home service calls — the technician travels using an electric cargo bike, of course.

Repair and Run has stores in Toronto, including a second opening soon, and Vancouver. Botros said Westboro is a unique market for e-scooters and e-bikes.

“When it comes to sales, there’s more interest in Westboro,” he said. “We’ve noticed that, with the micro-mobility world, there isn’t as much of a demographic here who are into commuting. People here do it for leisure. It’s a cycling-friendly neighbourhood and people come from all over, like Brockville or Kingston. There are not many shops around that sell and service.”

Westboro retailers such as Mountain Equipment Company, Lululemon and other cycling and sports shops attract active, outdoorsy customers to the area, he added.

“There are lots of paths, it’s an active neighbourhood and a lot of customers who come in are into some kind of sport,” Botros said. “All those things make Westboro a great community for this.”

As for rental e-scooters, Westboro did not have any available last year and only a limited number in 2021. In anticipation of this season, Judy Lincoln, executive director of the Westboro BIA, said she met with service providers to discuss space issues and other concerns.

“Our sidewalks are pretty tight and we want to make sure people don’t use them on sidewalks. There’s also designated parking for them,” she said. “They have great tech for geo-fencing those areas. You don’t want abandoned scooters leaning against the front window of a business, but if that can be alleviated, there’s lots of excitement about using them.”

In a referendum earlier this year organized by the city’s mayor, Paris residents voted 89 per cent against keeping shared e-scooters in the city. Concerns included reckless driving and clutter on sidewalks.

In Westboro, Lincoln said she has seen “lots of interest” in rental e-scooters from businesses looking to attract more people to the area.

“Having the scooters will help link that end of the LRT line,” she explained. “They’re a great way to make that connection closer. I think for us, anything that can bring people through is great. We only have small pockets of parking and we’re just after the LRT, so it’s helping people feel the different options.”

The City of Ottawa has approved a fourth summer for e-scooters and renewed contracts with e-scooter rental companies Bird Canada and Neuron Mobility for a combined fleet of 900 scooters. The city will meet with providers regularly to discuss progress and concerns, said Heidi Cousineau, program manager of neighbourhood traffic calming with the city.

“Staff will continue to track feedback from residents to ensure appropriate operational changes and increased education are addressed,” Cousineau said. “The continued refinement of new technologies will also help set the stage for a safe environment and enjoyable season for both riders and pedestrians.”

https://obj.ca/love-them-or-hate-the...neighbourhood/

[OTownandDown]

The geofencing restrictions are just ridiculous, and render the service completely useless for anyone originating outside of the core (i.e. Want to ride over a canal or river? You're screwed.) To restrict a stand-on scooter from a bike path is absolute idiocy. Especially given that the market share of private scooters is growing leaps and bounds, and they seem to be not killing anyone from accidents on bike paths. Edit: You might say, but OTown, what about just using Laurier to cross the canal from downtown to uOttawa like a responsible scooterer? Nope: Geofencing is down to these little f*cking strips of no-go zones, but of course geofencing is plus/minus like 50 meters. Hope you like a scooter that randomly powers down for no specific reason, especially in the vicinity of Laurier (bike lanes? NOPE), NCC property (You think the NCC is Fun? NOPE) or Sparks (ok, this is valid).

Anyways, I'm thinking of buying one, obviously. Which is a shame because I could have also just kept renting, but the service is useless to me. Skipping a collector bus to get to the train is AMAZING on a scooter. 2 minutes riding compared to 45 minutes waiting for a bus? Perfect.

P.S. How about some actual enforcement? The number of times I'm passed on a river pathway by a dude getting tim hortons on his mini crotch-rocket style electric f*cking Canadian Tire scooter travelling at 50km/hr like an episode of Dumb & Dumber is astounding. These SHOULD be illegal on a bike path.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

The geofencing restrictions are just ridiculous, and render the service completely useless for anyone originating outside of the core (i.e. Want to ride over a canal or river? You're screwed.) To restrict a stand-on scooter from a bike path is absolute idiocy. Especially given that the market share of private scooters is growing leaps and bounds, and they seem to be not killing anyone from accidents on bike paths. Edit: You might say, but OTown, what about just using Laurier to cross the canal from downtown to uOttawa like a responsible scooterer? Nope: Geofencing is down to these little f*cking strips of no-go zones, but of course geofencing is plus/minus like 50 meters. Hope you like a scooter that randomly powers down for no specific reason, especially in the vicinity of Laurier (bike lanes? NOPE), NCC property (You think the NCC is Fun? NOPE) or Sparks (ok, this is valid).

Anyways, I'm thinking of buying one, obviously. Which is a shame because I could have also just kept renting, but the service is useless to me. Skipping a collector bus to get to the train is AMAZING on a scooter. 2 minutes riding compared to 45 minutes waiting for a bus? Perfect.

P.S. How about some actual enforcement? The number of times I'm passed on a river pathway by a dude getting tim hortons on his mini crotch-rocket style electric f*cking Canadian Tire scooter travelling at 50km/hr like an episode of Dumb & Dumber is astounding. These SHOULD be illegal on a bike path.

Yup, for me the restrictions have rendered them unusable. The first two years were great, when I could easily grab one as I left my apartment and use it to quickly reach the nearest O-Train station or other destinations. I'd estimate I made well over 50 trips in the first summer and easily 100+ in the second one. But since last year, the reduced fleet size has made it so that you now often have to go looking for one, which hurts the convenience factor. It's often faster to just walk to your destination than go searching for a scooter. Relatively minor problem though, and really only affects short trips.

What's the real breaking point is the horrible sidewalk-riding detection. Last summer, on my first trip of the season, I was riding on Bank St. when the scooter announced "sidewalk riding detected" and spontaneously slowed me to a crawl with vehicular traffic right behind me. Insanely dangerous!!! At that point I decided I'd had enough and went to park the scooter. The cherry on top was the faulty geo-fencing technology not allowing me to park the scooter because it claimed I was not in a designated parking zone, even though I was standing smack-dab in the middle of the zone identified on the app. After struggling for 5-10 min I eventually ditched the scooter and told support to figure it out. Haven't touched one since.

The worst part is, these issues were so predictable when the geo-fencing measures started being discussed. How on earth could we expect the technology to be precise enough to have the desired effect? Seems to me the city knew that, and is going for the "death by red tape" route with these scooters. We already saw the beginning of it last year when the companies chose to deploy far less scooters than they were permitted, and operated in a smaller region than permitted too. Only 80,000 rides last year, compared to 492,000 in 2021... We'll be saying goodbye to this program before you know it. And the city will inevitably say, "We tried! "

[OTSkyline]

Yes, the typical Ottawa way... over regulate to death. This should be widely encouraged as a greener, fast way to get people moving. Imagine if we could lower car usage during summer months and have people swap to e-scooters? How great would that be?

[Harley613]

Everybody must be protected from every (lawsuit) thing at every moment in Canada! We can't advance as a society if there is even the slightest chance somebody could get (served with a lawsuit) hurt!

[SidetrackedSue]

Conversely, I haven't had to walk around a scooter on the sidewalk on my street for the past 2 years. So I'm all for geofencing for regions.

It makes sense to be able to take one the 20+minute walk to Tunneys from here because our buses are so unreliable and we have a large potential user base here. But the users ended up ruining it for everyone because they just abandoned the scooters, literally in the middle of the sidewalk. Strollers had to go onto the grass to get around them. Same for those with walkers and those who are visually impaired. And they would stay in the same spot for days on end (which shows how patient people can be, I was tempted to drag it the block to the transitway bridge and throw it over.)

Either the company has to be more responsive to picking up scooters, or they have to be limited to designated parking areas and the user continued to be charged until the scooter is picked up by the company. Designated parking could be next to bus shelters, so on city land but where the side walk is wide enough for parking beside the shelter.

The users ruined it for everyone, not only here but in many, many, other cities.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

Conversely, I haven't had to walk around a scooter on the sidewalk on my street for the past 2 years. So I'm all for geofencing for regions.

It makes sense to be able to take one the 20+minute walk to Tunneys from here because our buses are so unreliable and we have a large potential user base here. But the users ended up ruining it for everyone because they just abandoned the scooters, literally in the middle of the sidewalk. Strollers had to go onto the grass to get around them. Same for those with walkers and those who are visually impaired. And they would stay in the same spot for days on end (which shows how patient people can be, I was tempted to drag it the block to the transitway bridge and throw it over.)

Either the company has to be more responsive to picking up scooters, or they have to be limited to designated parking areas and the user continued to be charged until the scooter is picked up by the company. Designated parking could be next to bus shelters, so on city land but where the side walk is wide enough for parking beside the shelter.

The users ruined it for everyone, not only here but in many, many, other cities.

Certainly true that the only reason for adding all these cumbersome measures was because of bad behaviour from certain users. It's unfortunate because I don't think those who actually use the scooters as a practical mobility solution are the problem. It's the ****head teens who drive their parents' SUVs downtown from the 'burbs and proceed to treat the scooters like toys, riding around with their friends, wreaking havoc, before ditching them.

I do think that the bad behaviour would've subsided over time though, as the novelty of the scooters wore off for those who mis-used them, and as the service providers gradually banned the offenders.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I do think that the bad behaviour would've subsided over time though, as the novelty of the scooters wore off for those who mis-used them, and as the service providers gradually banned the offenders.

You are possibly right and, if so, the concept never had a proper chance.

But this is not just an experiment here, or even in Ontario. Has behaviour improved in Europe and Montreal and San Diego? Or did they all respond with major restrictions?

As for bad behaviour by teens, in my case it was likely my building neighbours since they were left on the sidewalks in beside the buildings. Possibly one of them was teens (left by the park.)

[rocketphish]

Up to 900 electric scooters on Ottawa streets in fourth season of pilot project
A city staff report says the fleet could grow to 1,200 in 2024 "should the providers' performance standards continue to improve and there is a demonstrated demand."

Peter Hum, Ottawa Citizen
Published May 20, 2023 • Last updated 46 minutes ago • 2 minute read



Electric scooters returned to Ottawa’s streets this past week following the City of Ottawa’s approval this spring for the fourth season of a pilot project.

As many as 900 e-scooters from operators Neuron Mobility and Bird Canada will be available for commuters to rent.

Complaints about sidewalk riding and haphazard parking dogged the program in previous seasons. A regime imposed last year, in which geofencing and artificial intelligence technology were used to limit parking space and to thwart sidewalk riders, remains in place. All scooters were also outfitted to emit continuous sounds while moving, a requirement that may be a North American first.

Also, riding on sidewalks carries a fine of $150.

In a media release, Neuron Mobility said it was launching new “augmented reality parking assistant technology” to increase parking compliance and the use of designated parking stations. Before trips can end, riders who are not within a parking station will be directed to one nearby.

Neuron’s end-of-trip photo feature requires a rider to photograph and upload an image of their e-scooter to ensure the vehicle is parked correctly.

According to a city staff report, the fleet of e-scooters could grow to number 1,200 in 2024 “should the providers’ performance standards continue to improve and there is a demonstrated demand.” In 2020, there were just 600 e-scooters available in Ottawa.

These rules apply to e-scooter use in Ottawa:

• Riders must be 16 years old and above;
• Those under 18 need consent from a parent or a legal guardian;
• Helmets are mandatory for riders under 18 and recommended for all users;
• E-scooters may be used on City of Ottawa’s multi-use pathways, bike lanes, cycle tracks and roads with a speed of 50 km/h or lower; a National Capital Commission webpage says electric kick-style scooters are prohibited on the Capital Pathway “parkways when they are open for active use only;
• One rider per e-scooter, and no tandem riding with children;
• Always keep a safe distance from and give way to pedestrians and mobility devices such as wheelchairs;
• Do not ride under the influence of alcohol or other substances;
• Be aware and remove earphones;
• Park responsibly and don’t cause an obstruction. Riders are encouraged to use incentivized parking zones.

The e-scooter program is revenue-neutral for the City of Ottawa. Its estimated $195,000 cost for 2023 will be recouped through fees charged to scooter companies. The Ontario government started a five-year pilot program for e-scooters in 2020.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-pilot-project

[OTSkyline]

I wonder if the service area has gotten bigger. One would definitely hope so. I know the first year or so, area was limited by Sandy Hill (east), Lansdowne (south) and Hintonburg (West).

I live outside of these limits but within the greenbelt. I'm obviously not going to take a different mode of transportation TO a e-scooter, then transfer to e-scooter for the rest, but I'd love to be able to hop on one of them and use them for trips to/around the city.

[harls]

I am seeing these E-scooter things a lot more in Aylmer now.

(holy crap I sound like an old man)

[eltodesukane]

How much $ to use those scooters?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

How much $ to use those scooters?

$1.15 + 42 cents a minute. Not sure what current rates are in other cities but that is much much more expensive than my experience in other cities. Trying to link to the LRT for a commute from 10 minutes away becomes prohibitively expensive. As if wearing a helmet and the other hurdles like very restricted parking rules didn't already make it inconvenient for that purpose anyway.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

$1.15 + 42 cents a minute. Not sure what current rates are in other cities but that is much much more expensive than my experience in other cities. Trying to link to the LRT for a commute from 10 minutes away becomes prohibitively expensive. As if wearing a helmet and the other hurdles like very restricted parking rules didn't already make it inconvenient for that purpose anyway.

The apps also offer passes that would probably mean significant savings for frequent use. For e.g. Neuron has a pass for $2.99/month that eliminates the $1.15 per ride fee and gives a 20% discount on the per-minute fee.

[Uhuniau]

What's the reasoning behind the NCC's intransigence about using their precious facilities for scooting?

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What's the reasoning behind the NCC's intransigence about using their precious facilities for scooting?

My guess(es)...

1) Safety, can't trust e-scooters limited to 20km/h on the MUPs (meanwhile downright suicidal drivers doing 25+ km/h over the limit on the pitch black un-lit NCC parkways, mere metres away from MUP users, are totally fine).

2) Because of some silly concern around the "corporatization" of public amenities like NCC mups by e-scooter companies.