Provo MSA Development Thread

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by Happy Valley Freak

does any1 know whats going on over in PG with that Marriot Hotel and that development???

Its a battle between PG and Provo... PG wanted to give the *idea* that everything was in order so that Provo would stop pursuing building a convention center of its own... however, I knew this would happen... I am 100% positive that the developer of the PG project is going to ask for more money and its going to blow the whole development.... guess what, Im happy about that. A county convention center shouldn't be in PG... theyre cherry picking, just like Sandy is doing to SLC.

I think the PG Conv Ctr project is dead especially if Provo gets their act together in a timely fashion.

[delts145]

In many ways I hope your right Wasatch. I would definately prefer to see Provo develop a major convention facility for the Valley first, rather than Pleasant Grove. Down the road in five to ten years, a secondary center would probably be acceptable. Before a secondary center though, I would like to see Provo receive its expanded airport, and of course the expansion of I-15, Geneva Road, and Commuter Rail.

I took the opportunity to drive around Provo a little the other day while I was there. It was exciting to see so many projects under way. This gave me a definite feel that Provo is moving along in a very dynamic direction. I was particularly bowled over by the number of projects along North Provo's University Ave. Also, after viewing the area in which the Southgate Center is going in, I think that would be a good area for that particular style of development. It will definately give Provo a needed edge over Orem for the Southern Valley market of growing cities like Springville and Spanish Fork.

In addition to what is going on now at the Eastern side of Downtown, I am anxious to see 1st no. more densely developed. Also the Western end around Albertsons has great gateway potential.

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[delts145]

UDOT seeks comments on plans to widen I-15

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/4913935.jpg

UDOT's preferred alternative would be to widen the freeway from the Bangerter Highway interchange to the University Parkway interchange to 12 lanes, six lanes each way. From University Parkway to the U.S. 6 inerchange in Spanish Fork, the freeway would be widened to 10 lanes and from Benjamin to south Payson widened to six lanes...


Whoa!!!! 12 lanes from Bangerter to the University Parkway. That's one honkin wide freeway!!! And a new Geneva Parkway, 800 No. Parkway, and Commuter Rail. WhoooHooo, Provo/Orem is going to BOOM big time.

[SLC Projects]

Originally Posted by delts145

UDOT seeks comments on plans to widen I-15

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/4913935.jpg

UDOT's preferred alternative would be to widen the freeway from the Bangerter Highway interchange to the University Parkway interchange to 12 lanes, six lanes each way. From University Parkway to the U.S. 6 inerchange in Spanish Fork, the freeway would be widened to 10 lanes and from Benjamin to south Payson widened to six lanes...


Whoa!!!! 12 lanes from Bangerter to the University Parkway. That's one honkin wide freeway!!! And a new Geneva Parkway, 800 No. Parkway, and Commuter Rail. WhoooHooo, Provo/Orem is going to BOOM big time.

Well it's about time. Driving I-15 down in Utah Country can be hell sometimes. But instead of starting from Bangerter Highway and head South. Udot should really start from 10600 South were they lefted off six years ago with the first I-15 widening project and work their way all the way to Provo. And don't stop there also go north all the way up to Ogden.

[urbanboy]

Whoa!!!! 12 lanes from Bangerter to the University Parkway. That's one honkin wide freeway!!! And a new Geneva Parkway, 800 No. Parkway, and Commuter Rail. WhoooHooo, Provo/Orem is going to BOOM big time.

...and look as it did when Geneva Steel was in operation. Also, I wouldnt' necessarily call it a BOOM, but a BLAH of urban sprawl. Those townships affected, better put in urban growth boundaries while they still have the chance. Why do we continue to build this way!?

[SmilingBob]

Originally Posted by urbanboy

... Why do we continue to build this way!?

Because we all want our 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots that we can afford. When we add about 20,000 people per year to the valley, where else do we put them? Not everyone wants to live in a townhome or apartment. Too much of that begins to look ugly also.

[Erector]

I partially agree with you urbanboy. Cities such as Philadelphia, Kansas City, Washington DC, and several other older urban areas have imposed county wide or even metro wide design schemes. Meaning that from the CBD going outward we find high density residential followed by industial and manufacturing areas, then followed by green belts and parks, then lower density residential and so forth.

The problem with newer or developing metro's is that smaller burgs and surrounding agricultural areas produce cheap land thus spawling neighborhoods. Soon the individual cities fight for tax base and businesses, then we see a overall county wide hodge podge and smatterings of commercial, med range residential, high end residential, retail, big box, all within blocks of each other.

So, unless you can change the mindset of peoples thinking, or eqaully share the bounty of the commercial tax base with smaller or bedroom communities in the valley, you will continue to see the same thing until a countywide/metrowide design approach is implemented. Other views?

[SLC Projects]

Wow not to be rube but some of you people need to wake up and get out of your urban only dream world. Especially urbanboy. Sorry this isn't Europe people. There are not trains that can take you everywhere. This is America where there is Sprawl in every Metro! You have your downtown and then there's miles and mile of Sprawl cities. Deal with it and quit bitching. After all we have to drive our big SUV's and Trucks and live on two acre lots.
Not EVERYTHING can be downtown or otherwise udot would have to built 24 lane freeways so everyone can drive to work downtown since ALL the office buildings HAVE to be downtown. But yet when Udot talks about widening the I-15 to 12 lanes down to Utah Country the bitching goes on. I guess some people don't mind siting in a three lane parking lot.
Sorry hate to say it but Utah is having a building boom and there are alot of new houses getting built down on the Southern end of the Salt Lake valley. And what? They are have to have jobs, go shopping, ect. So there's a huge demand for Office buildings and retail to get built down in that part of the Valley. And also for Utah Country. Again EVERYTHING can't be downtown.
If it was then our roads would REALLY be a mess. Again not trying to be rube. But I'm just facing the fasts.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by SmilingBob

Because we all want our 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots that we can afford. When we add about 20,000 people per year to the valley, where else do we put them? Not everyone wants to live in a townhome or apartment. Too much of that begins to look ugly also.

Bravo Smiling Bob When everything is only one way and no choices exist, it becomes very ugly. And THANKYOU Projects. Both of us being European, I think we understand that variety,"urban density mixed with towns such as Draper or Highland is the way to go."

I see Utah County as NOW, doing an excellent job of planning. I'm talking about the individual city councils in towns like Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills, Pleasant Grove, Springville and so on. I've have been EXTREMELY impressed with the leadership in these communties and the seriousness with which they take on their city growth resposibilities. (and Erector I'm not disagreeing at all with you, most everything you are saying I think is very valid.) Freakin Of course I-15 is being expanded, "DUH, and more DUH." Everything is not black and white, and there are a myriad of infinite fire's to put out at this time of our hyper growth situation. No one is more fastidious than me about development, and again I am impressed with the level of responsibility with which these many disparate communties are coming together with their planning. And why the Hell should there only be piss and moan about the MUUUUCH needed expansion of I-15 and not even a murmur of delight about the fact of COMMUTER RAIL being installed in such a timely manner.

[Erector]

Good Gawd SLC, pull the screwdriver out of your pocket. Why do you suppose urban planners nation wide are implementing programs such as Invision Utah and such? Because urban sprawl leads to freeways, freeways lead to pollution. Large homes in sprawling neighborhoods lead to grass, and grass leads to water usage. Our dependence on the automoble leads people to Eagle Mountain, then they bitch about needing access across Utah Lake. So lets build a bridge. To build for the sake of building is what seperates us from Europe.

By the way, good post Delts!

[Northernlad]

Originally Posted by delts145

UDOT seeks comments on plans to widen I-15

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/4913935.jpg

UDOT's preferred alternative would be to widen the freeway from the Bangerter Highway interchange to the University Parkway interchange to 12 lanes, six lanes each way. From University Parkway to the U.S. 6 inerchange in Spanish Fork, the freeway would be widened to 10 lanes and from Benjamin to south Payson widened to six lanes...


Whoa!!!! 12 lanes from Bangerter to the University Parkway. That's one honkin wide freeway!!! And a new Geneva Parkway, 800 No. Parkway, and Commuter Rail. WhoooHooo, Provo/Orem is going to BOOM big time.

Mmmmmmmmmm. I guess I am going to have to research and see if a bunch of interstate lanes are going to assist a city with Booming.
So much for our light rail and trains if something as idioitic as this is built.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Northernlad

Mmmmmmmmmm. I guess I am going to have to research and see if a bunch of interstate lanes are going to assist a city with Booming.
So much for our light rail and trains if something as idioitic as this is built.

Right, a Valley that will soon have a million people and experiencing one of the fastest growth rates in the nation doesn't need to upgrade it's current freeway. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this will greatly benefit the Provo and Orem business exchange with Salt Lake. AND AGAIN, as if it hasn't been announced enough, "commuter rail is a reality and is being built before the freeway overhaul." Utah Valley is going to need this I-15 upgrade every bit as much as Salt Lake Valley did.

[Northernlad]

Originally Posted by delts145

Right, a Valley that will soon have a million people and experiencing one of the fastest growth rates in the nation doesn't need to upgrade it's current freeway. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this will greatly benefit the Provo and Orem business exchange with Salt Lake. AND AGAIN, as if it hasn't been announced enough, "commuter rail is a reality and is being built before the freeway overhaul." Utah Valley is going to need this I-15 upgrade every bit as much as Salt Lake Valley did.

You are too serious about this forum.

[delts145]

Your reading waaay too much in to my response Northernlad. There is definately such a thing as appropriate growth. Although, I will admit to being somewhat confused by your attitude that improved highways along with commuter rail is somehow idiotic.

I have seen numerous posts bemoaning the inadequate freeway system of Treasure Valley, and how desperatly the Boise forumers would love light and heavy rail and an expanded, upgraded freeway. I'm thinking Northernlad, you would probably celebrate this same news of an expanded, state-of-the-art freeway along with commuter rail if it were happening in Boise. Yet, since it's happening in Utah Valley it's just, "idiotic." Hmmmmmmmmmm, interesting.

[Northernlad]

Originally Posted by delts145

Your reading waaay too much in to my response Northernlad. There is definately such a thing as appropriate growth. Although, I will admit to being somewhat confused by your attitude that improved highways along with commuter rail is somehow idiotic.

I have seen numerous posts bemoaning the inadequate freeway system of Treasure Valley, and how desperatly the Boise forumers would love light and heavy rail and an expanded, upgraded freeway. I'm thinking Northernlad, you would probably celebrate this same news of an expanded, state-of-the-art freeway along with commuter rail if it were happening in Boise. Yet, since it's happening in Utah Valley it's just. "idiotic" Hmmmmmmmmmm, interesting.

You are just too much Delts. Give it up. I am sorry you are offended I post in Boise forums. I am not reading into your post too much, but rather trying to negotiate through the fonts. In retreospect, you are trying to read into my post too much.
I am a Utah native and have grown up here and live here, so I have the right to state my opinion. You don't own this thread or any of the other Utah threads.

State-of-the-art freeway?

My issue is that 12 lanes is too big. Don't I have the right to express my opinion without offending you with your "lets turn the Wasatch Front into L.A." attitude?
Appropriate growth means different things to different people.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, your attitude and vision for my state is interesting.

[delts145]

Nothernlad, Why would anyone care if you post in a Boise thread? I'm very happy that you post there. I'm not offended, I am just genuinely curious as to why you define most things Utah as idiotic or in a negative light. I don't mean this as a challenge or to be offensive to you, but you know that if we were to line up all of your past posts in regard to Utah, they would be almost entirely uber-negative. Now, it's great that you feel positive about Idaho or anywhere else. I'm just curious,(maybe even amused) as to the constant negative attitude toward Utah.

Also, while I am originally from Europe and have lived there a great deal and have also lived in Los Angeles for a number of years, I grew up as a child in Alpine, and have lived in Salt Lake and Utah Valley part-time my entire life.

If you feel that Utah is growing way too fast and is out of control, then I understand why the anxiety. I just feel positive that this growth we are experiencing is coming at a time when we won't make many of the same mistakes that were made in L.A. during the 60's and 70's. I have posted that thought, and what I feel we are doing right vs. L.A.'s mistakes of the past, many times before.

[Happy Valley Freak]

Originally Posted by SLC Projects

Wow not to be rube but some of you people need to wake up and get out of your urban only dream world. Especially urbanboy. Sorry this isn't Europe people. There are not trains that can take you everywhere. This is America where there is Sprawl in every Metro! You have your downtown and then there's miles and mile of Sprawl cities. Deal with it and quit bitching. After all we have to drive our big SUV's and Trucks and live on two acre lots.
Not EVERYTHING can be downtown or otherwise udot would have to built 24 lane freeways so everyone can drive to work downtown since ALL the office buildings HAVE to be downtown. But yet when Udot talks about widening the I-15 to 12 lanes down to Utah Country the bitching goes on. I guess some people don't mind siting in a three lane parking lot.
Sorry hate to say it but Utah is having a building boom and there are alot of new houses getting built down on the Southern end of the Salt Lake valley. And what? They are have to have jobs, go shopping, ect. So there's a huge demand for Office buildings and retail to get built down in that part of the Valley. And also for Utah Country. Again EVERYTHING can't be downtown.
If it was then our roads would REALLY be a mess. Again not trying to be rube. But I'm just facing the fasts.

I absoulutly agree, if everything was downtown we'd be screwed, i'm sorry but 2 million ppl cant all get on the I-15 and drive downtown to work every morning, that would just be rediculus,

[Happy Valley Freak]

[QUOTE=delts145;3225930]Bravo Smiling Bob When everything is only one way and no choices exist, it becomes very ugly. And THANKYOU Projects. Both of us being European, I think we understand that variety,"urban density mixed with towns such as Draper or Highland is the way to go."

I see Utah County as NOW, doing an excellent job of planning. I'm talking about the individual city councils in towns like Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills, Pleasant Grove, Springville and so on.

HA HA! but not American Fork!, grrr traffic here is total BS! grrr, and I don't see much being done about it either

[delts145]

[QUOTE=Happy Valley Freak;3226789]

Originally Posted by delts145

I see Utah County as NOW, doing an excellent job of planning. I'm talking about the individual city councils in towns like Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills, Pleasant Grove, Springville and so on.

HA HA! but not American Fork!, grrr traffic here is total BS! grrr, and I don't see much being done about it either

You're right Happy Valley. American Fork and Lehi have added a huge amount of commercial in a very short time. But hey, the Northern Valley is in for a huge amount of road expansion and upgrades over the next few years. I shop at the Meadows regularly because it's so convenient. There have only been a couple of times when I have encountered traffic that was over-the- top congested. But yes, we are definately going to need all of the improvements which are coming, "Lehi especially."

[delts145]

speaking of which,

American Fork - More lanes, newer interchanges, more convenience

Widening of I-15 is debated

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1...235993,00.html


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