The Philip (Honeyman Hardware) | xx' | 11 floors | Proposed

[maccoinnich]

It's a new DAR for the same site. I've moved the discussion over to this thread.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

It's a new DAR for the same site. I've moved the discussion over to this thread.

So the floor count got lowered ?

[AdamNorthwest]

The PDNA shared the updated DAR package. New scheme is 11 stories and 123' tall with fewer amenity spaces.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by AdamNorthwest

The PDNA shared the updated DAR package. New scheme is 11 stories and 123' tall with fewer amenity spaces.

So the floor count got lowered from 23 to 11?

[maccoinnich]

Design Advice Posting Notice

[CorbinWarrick]

Is this the tower that was suppose to be 23 stories ?

[maccoinnich]

Yes

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Design Advice Posting Notice

From the doc:

[urbanlife]

Welp, this building got super lame really fast.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Welp, this building got super lame really fast.

Super fast

[Tykendo]

It's a decent design, but a super letdown from the glass encased 23 story design beauty. Bummer.

[Tykendo]

Originally Posted by pdxsg34

Return to this design. Things WILL get better, and from i see, they're are plenty of people who love living in this area.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by Tykendo

It's a decent design, but a super letdown from the glass encased 23 story design beauty. Bummer.

I agree. It's disappointing to see it get chopped down, but it's still a decent design and I'll be glad to see it built.

What caused it to get reduced so much?

Can any of you offer some perspective on the market as a whole, here in Portland? Obviously, we have a massive need for more housing, but we're also in a period of high inflation (along with other factors) pushing rents sky high. Are newly completed buildings being rented out as quickly as developers expected?

I can't help thinking about how we had an explosion of new hotels over the past decade, meanwhile we've seen a drastic decline in occupancy due to the pandemic... and not helped by other factors.

I worry that the next few years are going to be rougher than most folks seem to be expecting.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

I agree. It's disappointing to see it get chopped down, but it's still a decent design and I'll be glad to see it built.

What caused it to get reduced so much?

Can any of you offer some perspective on the market as a whole, here in Portland? Obviously, we have a massive need for more housing, but we're also in a period of high inflation (along with other factors) pushing rents sky high. Are newly completed buildings being rented out as quickly as developers expected?

I can't help thinking about how we had an explosion of new hotels over the past decade, meanwhile we've seen a drastic decline in occupancy due to the pandemic... and not helped by other factors.

I worry that the next few years are going to be rougher than most folks seem to be expecting.

Yea I don’t get it either. You need housing they act like it won’t get filled.

What I don’t get is the press tower is about to start construction at 23 story’s. What’s the difference these ppl can’t do the same?

[DMH]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Yea I don’t get it either. You need housing they act like it won’t get filled.

What I don’t get is the press tower is about to start construction at 23 story’s. What’s the difference these ppl can’t do the same?

We would need to be flies on the wall when developers and lenders discuss a project. There are so many details to get a project off the ground. Isn't the developer of the Phillips /Honeyman building new at the game? If inexperienced, maybe they overestimated what the market will support so close to Bud Clark Common and the future but unknown development of the post office acreage.

By contrast, the Press Block tower in Goose Hollow has more certainty at that site: the energized, expanded Providence Park, the brand new Lincoln High School, ART Tower on SW Alder, the MAX station with direct service to the Airport.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by DMH

We would need to be flies on the wall when developers and lenders discuss a project. There are so many details to get a project off the ground. Isn't the developer of the Phillips /Honeyman building new at the game? If inexperienced, maybe they overestimated what the market will support so close to Bud Clark Common and the future but unknown development of the post office acreage.

By contrast, the Press Block tower in Goose Hollow has more certainty at that site: the energized, expanded Providence Park, the brand new Lincoln High School, ART Tower on SW Alder, the MAX station with direct service to the Airport.

Good point. I just always hear it’s expensive to build tall yet some developers/investors do it

[AdamNorthwest]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

I agree. It's disappointing to see it get chopped down, but it's still a decent design and I'll be glad to see it built.

What caused it to get reduced so much?

Can any of you offer some perspective on the market as a whole, here in Portland? Obviously, we have a massive need for more housing, but we're also in a period of high inflation (along with other factors) pushing rents sky high. Are newly completed buildings being rented out as quickly as developers expected?

I can't help thinking about how we had an explosion of new hotels over the past decade, meanwhile we've seen a drastic decline in occupancy due to the pandemic... and not helped by other factors.

I worry that the next few years are going to be rougher than most folks seem to be expecting.

I work in development locally and there are plenty of reasons why the market is not performing the way many of us think it should.

We have a housing crisis, but not really in the high-end market. All new market-rate projects in Portland's core are offering some kind of rent concessions. In some locations, it's 4 weeks free rent (Slabtown), and others, it's 12 weeks free rent (Downtown). It's not unlikely that 11 West will offer 8 weeks free rent to get residents into units for cash flow.

It's obvious that livability concerns have hurt the city's reputation, but much of this is short-sighted as Portland remains far more affordable than any other major market on the West Coast. However, that doesn't stop major lenders and private equity groups from shying away from Portland. Why throw capital into Downtown Portland when you can invest in Beaverton, Vancouver, or Bend?

Between inflation, high interest rates, jurisdictional reviews, and inclusionary housing, most projects just aren't financially viable. That's why so many developers need to push rents just to get shovels into the ground. It's no coincidence that the Press Blocks full block is actually happening; any pre-IH entitled project will always be more attractive to capitalize than any post-IH entitled project.

In the case of The Philip, I actually think it's quite aesthetically pleasing for being only 11 stories. It's very possible that this developer, in trying to put all of the complex pieces together behind the scenes (raising equity, closing debt, city approvals, etc.), realized that 11 stories significantly reduces the risk compared to the 23-story tower. Sure I wished for the taller version, but the economics just might not be there to support it with the Post Office's long redevelopment timeline and major livability issues in neighboring Old Town.

[PhillyPDX]

Interesting input. Makes you wonder, IF the USPS was actively moving forward (not just demo), would the risk profile for this be different and 23 stories would be more likely? Similar to what I was saying for the home depot in Lloyd in the other thread....would that that same uninspired development be pushed if Lloyd mall was in the midst of a redevelopment instead of its current state?

[Leo]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Yea I don’t get it either. You need housing they act like it won’t get filled.

What I don’t get is the press tower is about to start construction at 23 story’s. What’s the difference these ppl can’t do the same?

It might actually be more helpful the flip that question upside down: If the 23-story Press Tower wasn't about to start, would the Phillip be taller?

The Press Tower is competing for the same customers as the Phillip, and it will finish before the Phillip. The bigger the Press Tower is, the bigger of a slice of a pie it will take away before the Phillip even opens. In that perspective, a smaller Phillip that finishes construction sooner may be more competitive, especially if it can open before the Press Tower.

But I don't know if the answer is even that complicated. It's never been a plus to live closer to Old Town, and it has become worse recently, not better. There are a lot of tall aparment buildings in better locations already.

[PhillyPDX]

My wife and I ate at the restaurant on this block a few months ago, Allora (pretty decent Italian, homemade pasta, etc). Coming from east, we drove past the Park blocks, which is quite disturbing and depressing at this location. Then literally one block later you are in the Pearl. The restaurant has a side door they need to open for you (clearly to keep random people from barging in). Sitting by the window we saw a handful of clearly distressed people walking by, doing random stuff (no thanks on sitting in the sidewalk seats), and then over the course of dinner TWO high-end Ferrari's pulled into the condo building parking ramp that was across the street (nicer than the "usual" Ferrari). This is the west coast I guess....extreme wealth living literally side by side with extreme poverty and mental health. Very interesting experience.