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  #41  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 1:27 PM
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I don't understand the rationale behind the rejection, unless we're simply doing it out of principle.

It's not a strategically critical area. It won't make or break us, nor France - but it's important to St-Pierre. They're the ones with the historic connection to the territory, the ones who have used it most for fishing, etc. They're the ones who live there. The same logic by which we won our boundary dispute with Canada in Labrador is not being applied here.

Even if it's full of oil and fish - so what? So is everywhere else off our coast. We have enough.

Imagine the mess if we hadn't joined Canada in 1949. There'd be three countries trying to settle a border around St-Pierre.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 1:41 PM
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I've listened to the audio interview. What the deputy says is this: given that Canada refuses to reach an agreement with France regarding an extension of SPM's continental shelf (all the countries in the world bordering a continental shelf have now the right to extend their EEZ from previously 200 nautical miles to now 350 miles, provided they file a dossier at the UN), she said the French government would file a separate dossier to claim the plain orange zone on the map above, and Canada would file a separate dossier to claim the entire area.

The rule at the UN is if two states claim the same continental shelf extension, none of them can exploit it, so the deputy says the French dossier will basically block any possible exploitation of the continental shelf extension by Canada, and so Canada will finally have to sit around the table and negotiate with France (so she hopes).

Asked whether Paris would this time really defend SPM, she said that authorities in Paris have now realized the potential of their overseas maritime areas, in particular off SPM, so there is more understanding of these issues in Paris now than in the 1980s.

She said 60 deputies in the French National Assembly (slightly more than 10% of the National Assembly) have formed a "North America Group" in charge of defending French rights in North America (that's SPM, basically, since we have no other territories anymore in North America ) and pressuring the French government (it will be a legislative lobby pressuring the French executive, in particular pressuring the French foreign office, from what I understand).

She said the #1 aim of this continental shelf extension is not cod fishing (SPM seems to have completely given up on this), but oil. She said the technologies need to be improved for the exploitation of this very deep oil (bottom of the ocean in the orange zone is 3,000 meters below sea-level).

Finally she said more exploration must be done on the continental shelf (claimed by SPM), to assess what riches really lie there. She said only 5% of it is currently known.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 1:52 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I don't understand the rationale behind the rejection, unless we're simply doing it out of principle.
I think there are two reasons:
1- the most important reason, a state will always defend its self interest, even if it's petty, even if it's tiny, even if it makes little sense in the larger scheme of things. That's the nature of states and international politics. See it a bit like a football game. If Brazil plays against Taiwan, they'll fight just the same as if they were fighting against Germany, even if Taiwan team is no match, even if it means they win 12 to 0, because that's the way it's supposed to be. No mercy.

2- (I may or may not be right on this, but I think there's something to it) I think the Canadian government deep down considers that France is illegitimate in North America, and so they are not prepared to be any nice with France there. Perhaps if SPM was an independent country Canada would not behave in such an uncompromising way, but even that is not certain (there are examples of big countries who behave in the most selfish way even with tiny neighbors...)

Also, this receives little media attention in Canada, and in general those selfish behaviors by state administrations can only be changed when there is media attention and pressure (for example US media attention in 1942-1943 forced Washington DC to change its stance regarding SPM... Roosevelt, who hated de Gaulle, refused that the Free French take control of SPM, but after the US media started criticizing the US government regarding this issue, Roosevelt conceded and stopped opposing a Free French takeover of SPM, which was until then controlled by Vichy France).
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  #44  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 2:17 PM
cityskyscrapers cityskyscrapers is offline
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Great photo tour and commentary. Never knew these French islands existed.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2015, 4:10 PM
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interesting -- and if there is a more beautiful view anywhere than that first shot of burin peninsula i have yet to see it!
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  #46  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2015, 3:14 AM
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What a fascinating mix of Boston Bruins and french currency! Now you convinced me to drive from Montreal to there, some day!
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  #47  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2015, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
As a result of this shameful economic war (frankly, I have never understood how such a large country as Canada can be so petty as to deprive 6,000 people of resources that are minuscule for the entire Canada considered as a whole), the local economy has collapsed since the 1980s and is supported now mainly by social transfers from Metropolitan France. Many people have also left the islands and the population is declining. However, if you tell people from SPM that they are parasites leaving off social transfers (as Mousquet almost did), they become very very angry, because they tell you it's the fault of Paris who didn't defend their economic interests against Canada.
Did I say anything you didn't like anywhere on here? You annoyingly (and quite possibly deliberately) misunderstood my talking. I blamed on the management of the current socialist administration that's still somewhat anti-business to not upset a majority of their sectarian voters; never blamed on locals who obviously are well aware that all cannot be employees of the public sector.

You're blaming on Canada while the trouble is mainly our own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
1- the most important reason, a state will always defend its self interest, even if it's petty, even if it's tiny, even if it makes little sense in the larger scheme of things. That's the nature of states and international politics.
That's also the nature of a certain ratio of French individuals, namely those anti-business to others around them. Of course businesses of their own are always legitimate, right? Those nasty are not even a majority over the country basically, but they're quite often organized as a noisy and influential corporatism, a war machine to defend their selfish interests and power. That pitiful mindset of theirs is our very main trouble.

Canada is barely a marginal matter compared to that whole ton of heavy mistrust widespread over the French society. No one can deny. There were enough studies on the issue. The French society is sick with mistrust, that's it.
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  #48  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2015, 4:29 PM
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Excellent tour. wonderful photographs.
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