How widespread are the homeless/mental health/addiction issues in your city/province?

[whatnext]

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that BC's decriminalization and safe injection strategy has been a complete failure:

LILLEY: B.C.'s overdose deaths keeps climbing, Toronto can't follow
British Columbia's drug policy is an example of what not to do.
Author of the article:Brian Lilley
Published Aug 08, 2023

On Jan. 31, 2023, the federal government gave a drug exemption to the entire province of British Columbia. Simple possession of hard drugs was no longer a criminal matter, it was a public health issue and would be dealt with as such.

Toronto is currently asking the federal government for permission to follow B.C.’s lead even as the facts show it’s a horrible idea.

Time and again drug policy “experts” in Vancouver and the surrounding area have told the rest of the country that a more liberalized approach to drug policy would save lives. We now have decades of experience that shows this isn’t true, that constantly expanding the drug supply, making it easier for people to use and removing barriers leads to more deaths.

That’s not considered compassionate by the activists who dominate the debate even if the facts show their model is not a compassionate one.

In 2013, B.C. had 7.2 overdose deaths per 100,000 of population and now, with five months of data on the decriminalization approach, they are headed for an overdose death rate of 45.5 per 100,000 of population. That’s higher than 2022’s record-setting rate of 44.8 per 100,000 and 2021’s 44.2 per 100,000.....

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...to-cant-follow

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

My gf is the only one we know who has managed to quit it, and it was really difficult (took about two years). Quitting crack was a lot easier, and quitting alcohol was a breeze that we didn't even notice. Also, it's kinda cheating to say she quit fentanyl because she's still on meds from the pharmacy that are a substitute to opioids; we tried to have her stop this last year (it's kinda annoying to have to go to the pharmacy every single day) and it was just impossible.

The staff at the opioid clinic (that she's been going to for nearly three years now) say she's the only one they're aware of that actually managed to totally quit the fentanyl shoots, and refer to her as the "star" of the program (even asking us if they could use the story to try to justify their funding; they also asked her if she was willing to be there in person as a sample of a patient, on that one day on which some higher healthcare brass were visiting the opioid clinic).

One of the "tools" that ultimately worked to get her off was to have her semi-sequestered (not against her will) at my parents' place, two hours away and in a town where she has no contacts. This phase lasted for many months.

Just to give you an idea, here's a real-life slice of life from this period:

My dad and I were leaving my parents' home early to go to a jobsite; my gf was still sleeping. I told my mom to make sure she didn't escape, as I knew she'd be craving her street opioids upon waking up. (She was on pharmacy substitutes, but it wasn't the same thing at all, according to her and I'm sure that's true.) My mom said, "you can go in peace, trust me, no problem". Then later that morning my mom calls and apologizes, because it turns out my gf, while my mom wasn't looking, pretended to be in a good mood and showing no signs of wanting to escape, and then about 10 seconds later, my mom notices one of the cars is gone from the driveway. I was mad at my mom and gave her shit (basically "you had ONE job!"), she was like "well I didn't know she was THAT bad", I'm like "basic anti-escaping-measures-101 is to hide all the keys really well!!!!" (which only leaves "calling a friend from her drug circles to do the 4-hour round trip to pick her up" as the escape option; something she's also done, and that's harder to prevent as long as she can discreetly access a phone or computer).

Having lived through that process, I think that your friend (giallo) if he's serious about quitting, absolutely needs to move somewhere far away for a while. Quitting if you stay in the same environment in which you were using, is basically impossible. We tried that at first, and realized it was hopeless.

I would also add that since the point of moving away is to make sure you have to make do with the pharmacy's opioid substitution meds, it ideally needs to be a place where you couldn't find street opioids even if you tried really hard (which you will). Like a small town where you know no one. That's even more important than sheer distance.

Quelle histoire. That is quite the commitment.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that BC's decriminalization and safe injection strategy has been a complete failure

Decriminalization of small amounts of certain illegal drugs was introduced on January 31 this year. It wasn't particularly controversial - "The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police endorses decriminalization as an effective way to reduce public health and public safety harms". It's far too soon to say what impact it will have on the current health crisis.

The safe injection strategy has a longer period to assess. Using your supposedly superior brain, can you calculate what proportion of deaths took place in BC when the person who overdosed was at home, and what proportion took place in an overdose prevention site?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Decriminalization of small amounts of certain illegal drugs was introduced on January 31 this year. It wasn't particularly controversial - "The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police endorses decriminalization as an effective way to reduce public health and public safety harms". It's far too soon to say what impact it will have on the current health crisis.

The safe injection strategy has a longer period to assess. Using your supposedly superior brain, can you calculate what proportion of deaths took place in BC when the person who overdosed was at home, and what proportion took place in an overdose prevention site?

Even a five year old can look at those overall numbers and see BC's policies are a complete and utter failure.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

LILLEY: B.C.'s overdose deaths keeps climbing, Toronto can't follow
British Columbia's drug policy is an example of what not to do.
Author of the article:Brian Lilley
Published Aug 08, 2023

In 2013, B.C. had 7.2 overdose deaths per 100,000 of population and now, with five months of data on the decriminalization approach, they are headed for an overdose death rate of 45.5 per 100,000 of population. That’s higher than 2022’s record-setting rate of 44.8 per 100,000 and 2021’s 44.2 per 100,000.....

That's a lazy correlation = causation take. The key thing that happened between 2013 and 2023 wasn't drug decriminalisation, it was the introduction of fentanyl (both as a drug of choice and as an adulterant) and its associated mortality rate.

It's too soon to say that decriminalisation is a failure, but that said, it probably won't have the desired outcome - as decriminalisation on its own doesn't solve the toxic supply issue.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Even a five year old can look at those overall numbers and see BC's policies are a complete and utter failure.

I wouldn't expect a five year old to be able to understand the statistics associated with the current health crisis around illicit drugs. But thanks for clarifying the level at which you understand things.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's a lazy correlation = causation take. The key thing that happened between 2013 and 2023 wasn't drug decriminalisation, it was the introduction of fentanyl (both as a drug of choice and as an adulterant) and its associated mortality rate.

It's too soon to say that decriminalisation is a failure, but that said, it probably won't have the desired outcome - as decriminalisation on its own doesn't solve the toxic supply issue.

You're right, it's far too soon. The BC government says it's intended to reduce stigma to encourage more people to access life saving supports and services, and to reduce costs in the criminal justice system. There's a monitoring program to evaluate implementation, early outcomes, public awareness and unintended consequences.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You're right, it's far too soon. The BC government says it's intended to reduce stigma to encourage more people to access life saving supports and services, and to reduce costs in the criminal justice system. There's a monitoring program to evaluate implementation, early outcomes, public awareness and unintended consequences.

Reducing stigma isn't what is needed to reduce drug use. Perhaps as you live in the DTES you've just become desensitized to the filth and chaos created by drug users but thankfully most Vancouverites haven't and have started to hold governments accountable for their poor decisions, like this shitshow in Yaletown:

[IMG]ops by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]
Credit: SeedyVancouver on Twitter
https://twitter.com/SeedyVancouver/s...27114119962859

[Acajack]

Report on SRC's flagship national 10 pm newscast about drug use, homelessness and general mayhem in downtown Ottawa.

https://twitter.com/CGalipeauTJ/stat...25353559986444

Note: the reporter says TikTok censored his report because it featured provocative images of drug use.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quelle histoire. That is quite the commitment.

On a public forum like this one I can only obviously share the mildest “tip of the iceberg” stories from this ~1.5 year period of my life that in retrospect my gf and I now matter-of-factly refer to as “le délire” (not an exaggeration at all). The craziest stuff, of which there was a lot, cannot be told to anyone except those closest to me (and even my closest friends don’t know some of it). Maybe if we ever meet in person you can ask me for some of those stories — I’ve “known” you for 15+ years, you’re not exactly a stranger.

(We’re even “Liojack” together )

[Wigs]

Drug addiction is not a crime, it's a disease.

Safe injection sites are created to allow a safe and clean place to use while offering support networks to get people sober/clean and hopefully, eventually back as sober, functioning, taxpaying members of society again over time. These are harm reduction places offering access to social and health services.
But the user has to want the help to get better.

My own cousin suffers from drug addiction.
She went from star athlete in high school to now a lost soul in her late 20s. It's awful, and she's been given chances to get clean going through a residential treatment program far away from her connections. But she made the choice to return to southern Ontario and back to her old vices, can't seem to get clean and sober right now. The family is worried she may not make it to 30 and it particularly makes her closest cousins, uncles, grandfather sick with worry.

Unfortunately forcing people to get clean doesn't work, they have to want to on their own and as lio stated fentanyl is the absolute worst drug encountered to try to get sober and clean from.

If one doesn't understand the scourge that Fentanyl, fentanyl combinations, and opioid derivatives have been on North America, then I don't know what to say. It's clearly not just Vancouver, Toronto, or Québec.

It's a nationwide, North America wide and probably most of the worldwide issue at this point.

Like harls stated, even in a town of 2,500 you can find these drugs. No community is immune.

DTES Van has been an unfortunate "skid row" down and out place for decades, it's just gotten worse with the rise of opioids and blue fentanyl and fentanyl combinations.

In 2023 you can go to any small town or city in North America and see small clusters of tents, or people doing the "fentanyl stoop" where they are high out of their gourds on fentanyl or fentanyl combinations, and look to be in a trance state, looking more like zombies than humans.

Maybe I'm in the minority of Canadians, I don't know, but the "filth" and suffering of your fellow Canadians should make you want to help them not condemn them.

It should be obvious The American approach of more police and stiffer jail time for those suffering from drug addiction does not help society. The societal cost is astronomical from taxpayer dollars of healthcare (those living on the streets suffer way more ailments from exposure to the elements, not to mention malnutrition) to incarceration, not to mention the cycle of addiction, poverty, broken families, etc.

Maybe someone like lio has a more compassionate approach than some others because he's seen the person he loves suffer from devastating addiction/substance abuse.

It's a complex issue but as Canadians a more compassionate approach and offering of all the services and support we can to get people clean is better than the American alternative.

[Wigs]

I give lio lots of credit. He divulged personal information and stories of challenges and difficulties he's faced dealing with a relationship involving drug addiction and getting clean that most wouldn't dare to reveal.

It takes courage to open up and be vulnerable, and it sounds like he's been through a lot trying to help the person he loves.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Drug addiction is not a crime, it's a disease.

Safe injection sites are created to allow a safe and clean place to use while offering support networks to get people sober/clean and hopefully, eventually back as sober, functioning, taxpaying members of society again over time. These are harm reduction places offering access to social and health services.
But the user has to want the help to get better.

My own cousin suffers from drug addiction.
She went from star athlete in high school to now a lost soul in her late 20s. It's awful, and she's been given chances to get clean going through a residential treatment program far away from her connections. But she made the choice to return to southern Ontario and back to her old vices, can't seem to get clean and sober right now. The family is worried she may not make it to 30 and it particularly makes her closest cousins, uncles, grandfather sick with worry.

Unfortunately forcing people to get clean doesn't work, they have to want to on their own and as lio stated fentanyl is the absolute worst drug encountered to try to get sober and clean from.

If one doesn't understand the scourge that Fentanyl, fentanyl combinations, and opioid derivatives have been on North America, then I don't know what to say. It's clearly not just Vancouver, Toronto, or Québec.

It's a nationwide, North America wide and probably most of the worldwide issue at this point.

Like harls stated, even in a town of 2,500 you can find these drugs. No community is immune.

DTES Van has been an unfortunate "skid row" down and out place for decades, it's just gotten worse with the rise of opioids and blue fentanyl and fentanyl combinations.

In 2023 you can go to any small town or city in North America and see small clusters of tents, or people doing the "fentanyl stoop" where they are high out of their gourds on fentanyl or fentanyl combinations, and look to be in a trance state, looking more like zombies than humans.

Maybe I'm in the minority of Canadians, I don't know, but the "filth" and suffering of your fellow Canadians should make you want to help them not condemn them.

It should be obvious The American approach of more police and stiffer jail time for those suffering from drug addiction does not help society. The societal cost is astronomical from taxpayer dollars of healthcare (those living on the streets suffer way more ailments from exposure to the elements, not to mention malnutrition) to incarceration, not to mention the cycle of addiction, poverty, broken families, etc.

Maybe someone like lio has a more compassionate approach than some others because he's seen the person he loves suffer from devastating addiction/substance abuse.

It's a complex issue but as Canadians a more compassionate approach and offering of all the services and support we can to get people clean is better than the American alternative.

Give the virtue signalling a test Mother Theresa.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Give the virtue signalling a test Mother Theresa.

The fentanyl crisis is affecting my family, and the world at large, and some people are apparently uncaring like you.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Wigs

The fentanyl crisis is affecting my family, and the world at large, and some people are apparently uncaring like you.

“Virtue signalling” as a pejorative term is just like “triggered” and “bleeding heart liberal” and “woke”. All used to mock empathy of any kind. Somehow expressing concern or voicing support automatically makes you a horrible person. Makes you wonder what kind of trauma those people have that makes them reflexively mock anything beyond indifference or contempt.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

“Virtue signalling” as a pejorative term is just like “triggered” and “bleeding heart liberal” and “woke”. All used to mock empathy of any kind. Somehow expressing concern or voicing support automatically makes you a horrible person. Makes you wonder what kind of trauma those people have that makes them reflexively mock anything beyond indifference or contempt.

As the saying goes, I have zero fucks left to give.

People who enable drug use by making continual excuses for users' bad behaviour aren't helping. I'm tired of hearing about trauma as an excuse, it is insulting to the tens of thousands who have endured real issues in their life yet get up every morning, put their clothes and go to work and are productive.

We're short of paramedics here, every time I see one reviving a junkie who OD'ed I wonder what father having a heart attack had to wait for an ambulance.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As the saying goes, I have zero fucks left to give.

People who enable drug use by making continual excuses for users' bad behaviour aren't helping. I'm tired of hearing about trauma as an excuse, it is insulting to the tens of thousands who have endured real issues in their life yet get up every morning, put their clothes and go to work and are productive.

We're short of paramedics here, every time I see one reviving a junkie who OD'ed I wonder what father having a heart attack had to wait for an ambulance.

This is such a sad view.
Maybe that junkie is a father or a mother? Maybe they will clean up their life one day!

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE!

Hopelessness is what is driving so many of the issues our communities are being faced with. We know that people facing debt are more than twice as likely to experience depression. Financial stress is killing Canada.

If we want to change the country’s future we need to make sure everyone is valued. The current system is dehumanizing. Forcing people to work multiple jobs, with low pay, so they can live in a shared apartment with no routine is a horrible way to live. It makes it hard to keep and form meaningful relationships. we all know that shift work environments leads to lower life expectancy and depression.

Nothing makes people feel more valued than being treated fairly. That means living wages. That means affordable housing for single people who don’t want roommates. That means the ability to save for retirement and enough money for extras. Like a two week vacation down south once a year. Everyone has value.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Hecate

This is such a sad view.
Maybe that junkie is a father or a mother? Maybe they will clean up their life one day!

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE!

Hopelessness is what is driving so many of the issues our communities are being faced with. We know that people facing debt are more than twice as likely to experience depression. Financial stress is killing Canada.

If we want to change the country’s future we need to make sure everyone is valued. The current system is dehumanizing. Forcing people to work multiple jobs, with low pay, so they can live in a shared apartment with no routine is a horrible way to live. It makes it hard to keep and form meaningful relationships. we all know that shift work environments leads to lower life expectancy and depression.

Nothing makes people feel more valued than being treated fairly. That means living wages. That means affordable housing for single people who don’t want roommates. That means the ability to save for retirement and enough money for extras. Like a two week vacation down south once a year. Everyone has value.

Agreed on every point you make.
Everyone has value.

[thurmas]

I think lios story with his gf demonstrates the need for healing centers in rural areas as being in big cities can be a death trap for those trying to battle out of addiction.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hecate

This is such a sad view.
Maybe that junkie is a father or a mother? Maybe they will clean up their life one day!

PEOPLE CAN CHANGE!

It depends. Some drugs users end up with permanent brain injury. Example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...dict-1.5422219

Rivera's son, then 21, survived his overdose — and a second one about a month later. But she says that as a result of these two incidents, doctors have told her Gorge suffered a brain injury that impairs his memory, his emotional regulation, some physical movements and his ability to process information and control his impulses.

The article discusses the lack of appropriate supports. I would guess you'd find a lot of people like this in the crowds around the DTES of Vancouver.