Overhauling Amtrak

[mrnyc]

behold the nadar of american rail riding.

the 1970s amtrak amshack for columbus, ohio aka the largest city with no rail service (it ended in 1979).


read all about it here:
http://www.columbusrailroads.com/Amtrak.htm

[Busy Bee]

^But hey look at that shiny new highway!

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

^But hey look at that shiny new highway!

What highway?

What is the "safe" capacity of just one lane on any highway or street?
Safe means 2 seconds gap between vehicles in that lane of traffic.
30 vehicles per minute, 180 vehicles per hour, 4320 vehicles per day, 1,576,800 vehicles per year.
Single occupancy vehicle 1,576,800 passengers per year
Double occupancy vehicle 3,153,600 passengers per year
Quad occupancy vehicle 6,307,200 passengers per year
Octo occupancy vehicle 12,614,404 passengers per year
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...-Ridership.pdf
Pre Covid, Amtrak ridership on the NEC was around 12.5 million passengers per year.

In no way am I suggesting a single highway lane will have as much capacity 24-7, but I am suggesting it could.

Whichever you decide to build; planes, trains, or automobiles; capacity issues arise. New lanes, new tracks, larger stations, larger parking garages, so many variables it is impossible to list all of them, come into play. Each solution has it own costs, without considering costs it is impossible to state which will be cheaper for the average intercity passenger.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by electricron

What highway?

What is the "safe" capacity of just one lane on any highway or street?
Safe means 2 seconds gap between vehicles in that lane of traffic.
30 vehicles per minute, 180 vehicles per hour, 4320 vehicles per day, 1,576,800 vehicles per year.
Single occupancy vehicle 1,576,800 passengers per year
Double occupancy vehicle 3,153,600 passengers per year
Quad occupancy vehicle 6,307,200 passengers per year
Octo occupancy vehicle 12,614,404 passengers per year
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...-Ridership.pdf
Pre Covid, Amtrak ridership on the NEC was around 12.5 million passengers per year.

In no way am I suggesting a single highway lane will have as much capacity 24-7, but I am suggesting it could.

Whichever you decide to build; planes, trains, or automobiles; capacity issues arise. New lanes, new tracks, larger stations, larger parking garages, so many variables it is impossible to list all of them, come into play. Each solution has it own costs, without considering costs it is impossible to state which will be cheaper for the average intercity passenger.

Yes, and a single rail track has a theoretical capacity of... (using an 8-car full subway train of 2000 people with a headway of 2 minutes) of ... 525 million passengers per year. An equally useless comparison .

[TowerDude]

Originally Posted by electricron

What highway?

What is the "safe" capacity of just one lane on any highway or street?
Safe means 2 seconds gap between vehicles in that lane of traffic.
30 vehicles per minute, 180 vehicles per hour, 4320 vehicles per day, 1,576,800 vehicles per year.
Single occupancy vehicle 1,576,800 passengers per year
Double occupancy vehicle 3,153,600 passengers per year
Quad occupancy vehicle 6,307,200 passengers per year
Octo occupancy vehicle 12,614,404 passengers per year
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...-Ridership.pdf
Pre Covid, Amtrak ridership on the NEC was around 12.5 million passengers per year.

In no way am I suggesting a single highway lane will have as much capacity 24-7, but I am suggesting it could.

Whichever you decide to build; planes, trains, or automobiles; capacity issues arise. New lanes, new tracks, larger stations, larger parking garages, so many variables it is impossible to list all of them, come into play. Each solution has it own costs, without considering costs it is impossible to state which will be cheaper for the average intercity passenger.

Stop hijacking this thread.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by electricron

What highway?

What is the "safe" capacity of just one lane on any highway or street?
Safe means 2 seconds gap between vehicles in that lane of traffic.
30 vehicles per minute, 180 vehicles per hour, 4320 vehicles per day, 1,576,800 vehicles per year.
Single occupancy vehicle 1,576,800 passengers per year
Double occupancy vehicle 3,153,600 passengers per year
Quad occupancy vehicle 6,307,200 passengers per year
Octo occupancy vehicle 12,614,404 passengers per year
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...-Ridership.pdf
Pre Covid, Amtrak ridership on the NEC was around 12.5 million passengers per year.

In no way am I suggesting a single highway lane will have as much capacity 24-7, but I am suggesting it could.

Whichever you decide to build; planes, trains, or automobiles; capacity issues arise. New lanes, new tracks, larger stations, larger parking garages, so many variables it is impossible to list all of them, come into play. Each solution has it own costs, without considering costs it is impossible to state which will be cheaper for the average intercity passenger.

welp, for one thing, in the real world you can throw out your quads and your octos. average prime time highway vehicle occupancy for all of america is 1.7 peeps per car.
that in itself shows you the utter wastefulness of highways and puts trains firmly back in play.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by mrnyc

welp, for one thing, in the real world you can throw out your quads and your octos. average prime time highway vehicle occupancy for all of america is 1.7 peeps per car.
that in itself shows you the utter wastefulness of highways and puts trains firmly back in play.

That is nonsense. Cars are king and always be. The bulk majority of our money should absolutely go to car infrastructure.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

That is nonsense. Cars are king and always be. The bulk majority of our money should absolutely go to car infrastructure.

no, slow your roll el lay -- you do realize highways were built to support expedited military movement during the cold war and we had cars before then, don't you? also far better passenger rail services.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

That is nonsense. Cars are king and always be. The bulk majority of our money should absolutely go to car infrastructure.

You´re delusional.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by plutonicpanda

That is nonsense. Cars are king and always be. The bulk majority of our money should absolutely go to car infrastructure.

Even if cars remain king, we see congestion increasing at a pace that road expansion cannot keep up with.

Everywhere else in the world, it is understood that alternatives need to be offered.

Passenger rail failed in North America simply because we invested so much public money in roads that private rail modernization was not possible.

Not everybody wants to drive everywhere especially as congestion increases, so investment in a better rail network will provide the alternative that is sorely missing at the present time.

[SoCalKid]

Originally Posted by electricron

What highway?

What is the "safe" capacity of just one lane on any highway or street?
Safe means 2 seconds gap between vehicles in that lane of traffic.
30 vehicles per minute, 180 vehicles per hour, 4320 vehicles per day, 1,576,800 vehicles per year.
Single occupancy vehicle 1,576,800 passengers per year
Double occupancy vehicle 3,153,600 passengers per year
Quad occupancy vehicle 6,307,200 passengers per year
Octo occupancy vehicle 12,614,404 passengers per year
https://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/...-Ridership.pdf
Pre Covid, Amtrak ridership on the NEC was around 12.5 million passengers per year.

In no way am I suggesting a single highway lane will have as much capacity 24-7, but I am suggesting it could.

Whichever you decide to build; planes, trains, or automobiles; capacity issues arise. New lanes, new tracks, larger stations, larger parking garages, so many variables it is impossible to list all of them, come into play. Each solution has it own costs, without considering costs it is impossible to state which will be cheaper for the average intercity passenger.

This is a really misleading post. You're comparing capacity to ridership and presenting it as a capacity to capacity comparison.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

This is a really misleading post. You're comparing capacity to ridership and presenting it as a capacity to capacity comparison.

No, I was not. I just wanted to remind everyone what a single lane of traffic could carry. Instead of having eight passengers in the cars, suppose it was one passenger in eight lanes of cars. I-95 is at least 8 lanes wide in NJ.

The main point I wanted and is still trying to make is that there are capacity restraints with every mode of transport. Adding additional tracks to the NEC is not going to increase Amtrak's ridership much without adding additional platforms, additional trains, additional everything because just about everything is already at capacity.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by electricron

No, I was not. I just wanted to remind everyone what a single lane of traffic could carry. Instead of having eight passengers in the cars, suppose it was one passenger in eight lanes of cars. I-95 is at least 8 lanes wide in NJ.

The main point I wanted and is still trying to make is that there are capacity restraints with every mode of transport. Adding additional tracks to the NEC is not going to increase Amtrak's ridership much without adding additional platforms, additional trains, additional everything because just about everything is already at capacity.

Then, at 5 minute frequencies, with full trains, an Amtrak track can carry 32,000,000 people.

[Busy Bee]

^ Dear lord man

[nito]

Isn't the problem of trying to route more trains into New York Penn the low approach track count, and track movement conflicts into the low number (and narrow) platforms?

[TowerDude]

The best reform for American rail would be to create a single national rail track holding organization responsible for all upgrades. Like the Interstate Highway system but for rails.

[llamaorama]

The existing railroads won’t give up their private property. Plus our existing rail network isn’t really that good for modern passenger rail anyways.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

The existing railroads won’t give up their private property. Plus our existing rail network isn’t really that good for modern passenger rail anyways.

very true. perhaps cases could be made to go after at least the long dormant row via eminent domain if they wont play ball?

[202_Cyclist]

Here’s where a Columbus Amtrak station could go if vision for passenger rail comes to fruition

By Hayleigh Colombo
Columbus Business First
Jan. 10, 2022

"COLUMBUS, Ohio (COLUMBUS BUSINESS FIRST) — If Amtrak’s vision for establishing passenger rail service between Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati becomes a reality, local officials are prepared with a plan for where Columbus’ downtown station would go.

The Franklin County Convention Facilities Authority envisions a two-level station at the Greater Columbus Convention Center, near the intersection of High Street and Nationwide Boulevard, according to a newly released plan.

Convention Facilities Authority Executive Director Don Brown said the plans for the nearly $23 million downtown station, which would be paid for mostly by Amtrak, are conceptual and dependent on Amtrak securing approval to launch the passenger rail service by the state of Ohio, as well as freight operators CSX and Norfolk Southern, which currently control the rail lines themselves..."

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/columbus-...s-to-fruition/

[202_Cyclist]

Newark Penn Station, Trenton Transit Centers progress with contract awards
NJ Transit’s Board of Directors awarded the first contract for the Newark Penn Station modernization project, as well as a contract for the Trenton Transit Center.

Mischa Wanek-Libman
Jan. 11, 2022
Mass Transit


Image courtesy of Mass Transit.

"New Jersey Transit’s (NJ Transit) Board of Directors moved two facility projects forward with the awarding of separate contracts.

AECOM Technical Services, Inc., was awarded a $1.9-million contract for all design and construction support phases of the Trenton Transit Center enhancement project and Parsons Transportation Group was awarded a $9.2 million professional services contract for the restoration and renovation of Newark Penn Station.

Trenton Transit Center
A station has existed on the site of Trenton Transit Center going back to 1863 with new stations built to replace the old, with the most recent rebuild occurring in 2008. NJ Transit has also upgraded the main station entrances and pedestrian overpass at the hub..."

https://www.masstransitmag.com/techn...ontract-awards