Record Wave of Americans Fled Big Cities for Small Ones in 2023

[mhays]

This wasn't "in 2023." It was from a point in 2022 to a point in 2023. That might not be a huge difference but we're in the post-Covid sea-saw period.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

This isn't rocket science, and I see a lot of people are emotionally invested in this topic.

What is the point of living in a city? Most city dwellers don't even leave their apartments, as their jobs are online and they order food and everything else, avoiding leaving their apartment as if their lives depend on it.

Our public transportation system is in crisis mode, with most not even coming close to pre-pandemic numbers (which were already sad for the vast majority of cities). Crime is an issue. Just because crime is lower than 2021 doesn't mean its low. Thats like saying "racism is less of an issue today than in 1950, so we are good!" No, an issue is an issue, even when it becomes less of an issue.

So why pay so much to live in a crime-infested place where you don't actually take advantage of what the city offers?

None of this is remotely connected to reality.

You didn't even read the article, BTW. This is about metropolitan area dwellers, not urban living. You really think the average person living in a MSA (80% of Americans) lives in an apartment, rides transit and works from home? And never leaves their home? Seriously? Who does that?

Crime is at near record-lows. American metros have essentially never been safer. The idea that McMansion dwellers are mass-fleeing into bumpkisville due to crime is laughable. And transit ridership is rising basically everywhere, not that it's relevant, considering the vast majority of metropolitan dwellers are driving around in trucks or SUVs.

[mhays]

This point is hysterical: "Most city dwellers don't even leave their apartments".

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Most city dwellers don't even leave their apartments,

This amazing nugget is based on what?

Every single city dweller I know leaves their apartment.

I see thousands of them out in the streets/transit everyday.

You must live in a very strange city.

[Crawford]

They're staying inside to hide from the record-breaking crime, Antifa, transgenders and the anti-Semites burning down college campuses. Good thing we still have rural America.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

This isn't rocket science, and I see a lot of people are emotionally invested in this topic.

What is the point of living in a city? Most city dwellers don't even leave their apartments, as their jobs are online and they order food and everything else, avoiding leaving their apartment as if their lives depend on it.

This doesn't pass the eye test where I live. Do you have a source for this claim?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Crime is at near record-lows. American metros have essentially never been safer. The idea that McMansion dwellers are mass-fleeing into bumpkisville due to crime is laughable. And transit ridership is rising basically everywhere, not that it's relevant, considering the vast majority of metropolitan dwellers are driving around in trucks or SUVs.

I can always spot the person who wasn't old enough to understand how fantastically bad the late 70s, 80s, and 90s were for America's cities. Some of the poshest parts of todays' tier 1 American cities were shit holes.

To hear these people claim that crime is out of control in these very same cities that have basically re-populated (some of them to their all time highs) and (nearly) completely eliminated blight is just fantastically disconnected from reality.

I mean. You basically have to go to East New York in Brooklyn to find some semblence of urban grit at this point. It used to be at the first stop of every subway line leading from Manhattan into Brooklyn.

You can def tell who watches Fox News on these message boards.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

perceptions do not care about reality. If you ask ~50% of americans about crime in the cities, they'll say its never been worse and society is collapsing.

I don't think people that actually live in big cities share this perception. The opinions of Americans that don't live in big cities doesn't really matter to this point, since they wouldn't be the group driving population losses.

[bilbao58]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I can always spot the person who wasn't old enough to understand how fantastically bad the late 70s, 80s, and 90s were for America's cities.

You can def tell who watches Fox News on these message boards.

Exactly. I'm old enough to remember 1981 when Houston had 701 homicides in one year (there were 348 in 2023) with a metro area population one third of what it is today.

[JManc]

^ When I first moved to Houston in 1981, there was a woman's body dumped in the dumpster at our apartment complex the day we moved in. Freaked me the fuck out at 8 years old...

Originally Posted by Crawford

But this article isn't about "living in a big city". It claims that people are fleeing metros. So fleeing McMansions for small town living. Fleeing Houston for Bumkisville, TX.

No, it's people living the biggest metros for much smaller ones, the article didn't suggest they were moving to bombed out meth villes:

Originally Posted by article

Americans have more geographic flexibility and have been increasingly willing to move far from large population centers if their destination offers a good quality of life

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

As some one who is suddenly dealing with a very sick parent for the first time in my life, and ushering them to 4-6 doctor's appointments a week to figure out a cancer treatment plan, I can't imagine not living in a major city with access to a robust healthcare system.

My mother in law is going through that as well and we're very grateful she has access to MD Anderson nearby though my father (smallish city) still had access to excellent treatment when he had a health scare a few years ago.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I was just pushing back against your initial assertion that "living in a big city doesn't hit the same way as you get older".

The way your statement was worded made it sound like you were making a blanket universal observation about big cities and aging, as opposed to an individual one, that's all.

People change as they get older and I am not making a blanket statement but speaking from my own experience at almost 51, I don't partake in the amenities of living in a big city nearly as much as I did when I was in my 20's and 30's and I can see why some want a slower change of pace. Pretty much all my friends my age and above are the same and spend more time at home rather than exploring new things to do in town.

[UrbanImpact]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

This isn't rocket science, and I see a lot of people are emotionally invested in this topic.

What is the point of living in a city? Most city dwellers don't even leave their apartments, as their jobs are online and they order food and everything else, avoiding leaving their apartment as if their lives depend on it.

Our public transportation system is in crisis mode, with most not even coming close to pre-pandemic numbers (which were already sad for the vast majority of cities). Crime is an issue. Just because crime is lower than 2021 doesn't mean its low. Thats like saying "racism is less of an issue today than in 1950, so we are good!" No, an issue is an issue, even when it becomes less of an issue.

So why pay so much to live in a crime-infested place where you don't actually take advantage of what the city offers?

So people who live in big cities don't leave their apartments , however, small city home dwellers do? Our eyes and experiences must be deceiving us.

[dave8721]

As Crawford points out this article is not about people leaving urban areas for small towns. It is about leaving big metros for small ones. The vast majority of populations live in the suburbs so this article is talking about people leaving suburbs of big cities for suburbs of smaller ones.

[Obadno]

The revival of rural and middle America is a good thing.

Now that commodities are likely to become more expensive after decades of oversupply this will help tons of smaller towns in north America.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by homebucket

This doesn't pass the eye test where I live. Do you have a source for this claim?

I think he does have somewhat of a point though. It's so much easier to be homebody now when you can work from home, Doordash and Instacart everything. People are still obviously out and about but more people are terminally online than they ever were before. If you wanted human interaction before social media, you actually had to bathe and go outside for it....

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by dave8721

As Crawford points out this article is not about people leaving urban areas for small towns. It is about leaving big metros for small ones. The vast majority of populations live in the suburbs so this article is talking about people leaving suburbs of big cities for suburbs of smaller ones.

Exactly. The article claims that metropolitan dwellers are moving in unprecedented numbers to non-metropolitan areas.

Has nothing specifically to do with apartments, urbanity, transit, etc. etc. The implication is that people from suburban America are moving to small town or small city suburban America.

[iheartthed]

If the numbers are accurate, this could also be a trend of stalling growth at the national level, since big metros have been the engine for national population growth. The article presents it as growth shifting from bigger cities to smaller metros, but it could just be that growth in the bigger metros is stalling while the growth stall out in smaller metros is just delayed. Hard to draw many inferences without more data points (historical large metro vs small metro growth, overall population growth, etc).

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by JManc

I think he does have somewhat of a point though. It's so much easier to be homebody now when you can work from home, Doordash and Instacart everything. People are still obviously out and about but more people are terminally online than they ever were before. If you wanted human interaction before social media, you actually had to bathe and go outside for it....

Sure, you can do those things more easily now, but how exactly does that support his point that most city dwellers avoid leaving their apartment as if their lives depend on it? I don't see anybody doing that. If they feared social interaction that significantly, they'd already have been living in the suburbs or rural areas.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by JManc

People change as they get older and I am not making a blanket statement but speaking from my own experience at almost 51, I don't partake in the amenities of living in a big city nearly as much as I did when I was in my 20's and 30's and I can see why some want a slower change of pace. Pretty much all my friends my age and above are the same and spend more time at home rather than exploring new things to do in town.

Yes people do change, as much as I love living in the 2nd biggest city in the USA, at my age I don’t partake in the amenities living here as my younger days. There are weekends where I don’t leave our condo now. You just don’t have the same energy, but with a young son I force myself to get out and do things, such as going to the park, go swimming, the beach, etc. I think without him I would probably just be lazy.

When I was younger I couldn’t stand being in the house, but now it doesn’t bother me much. It also is a bit more stressful dealing with big city issues as traffic and crowds. When I was a younger person (just turned 60 on May 1) I seem to thrive in crowded places and traffic didn’t even fazed me. The thought of even going to a graduation party this weekend some 60 miles from me in LA traffic is not something I’m looking forward to, I’m seriously looking at taking the train there.

I wouldn’t want to ever live somewhere remotely, but I could easily live in a smaller metropolitan area, or further out in metro Los Angeles away from the busy and noise of everyday life. For many years I was cool with condo living but now I would rather live in a house, not a Mc Machon but something easy to maintain and no more stairs. This is from someone who’s quite healthy and decent shape compared to most people my age.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JManc

Pretty much all my friends my age and above are the same and spend more time at home rather than exploring new things to do in town.

That's unfortunate from my perspective.

My parents are pushing 80 and still fully take part in city life: theater, restaurants, museum exhibitions, art fairs, farmers markets, etc.

One of my mom's favorite sayings: "the moment you stop walking is the very moment you start dying".

I plan to follow in their footsteps instead of running out the clock alone as a perpetual homebody.

Originally Posted by JManc

I think he does have somewhat of a point though.

But his point wasn't about technology making it easier to be a hermit these days.

His claim was very specifically about "city dwellers" and how MOST of them never leave their apartments.

He provided absolutely nothing to back up his utterly absurd contention.

[Antares41]

A 291K plus influx of people moving to 250K populated metro may be news, but, its too small of a number in my opinion, in a nation of 330M, to get worked-up over. Lets discuss this in ten years and see if it is really a trend. Although I suspect some of those 250K metros are really talking off, but certainly, not all of them.