ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[smArTaLlone]

Its always interesting to me that unlike other forms of transportation, its only when taxes are applied to transit that its called a subsidy.

[smArTaLlone]

The countdown to 2012 started Wednesday as Gov. Sonny Perdue signed legislation allowing Georgians to vote two years from now for what would appear to be the largest single increase in transportation funding in the state's history.

For those whose eyes gleam for a particular interstate interchange or new streetcar, the new law may represent the best chance over the next decade to get major projects funded.

One county may see even bigger transportation changes as a result of the law. It allows Clayton County, which shut down its C-Tran bus system on March 31 for budget reasons, to vote this year to join MARTA and pay for it with yet another penny sales tax.



Perdue signs transit bill AJC

[WestsideATL]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

Its always interesting to me that unlike other forms of transportation, its only when taxes are applied to transit that its called a subsidy.

Or that it's socially acceptable to subsidize the education for other people's kids even when you either don't have them or they're grown up, but something that provides another public need (like transit) and has all sorts of positive externalities (like improved air quality, better urban form - except in Atlanta, and some serious passenger throughput) is not.

[cybele]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

Its always interesting to me that unlike other forms of transportation, its only when taxes are applied to transit that its called a subsidy.

Well, that is a good point because the roads and the ships and the trains all gets subsidized, too. However, the MARTA does get a huge amount of money from the government, I can't think of any single thing in the ATL that gets more year in and year out. There could be but what is it.

What seems to me is the discussion gets hung up between wanting the MARTA to be more efficient and cut out the fat at the top and raise the rates and go other places and so forth versus people saying, "Well, you must be anti-transit." It is not like the MARTA is some holy cow that can do no wrong and any criticism makes you against it. It is getting a whopping hunk of John Q Public's money so how do they use it.

I agree it would help if the state got behind it and maybe even took it over to get the local politics out and whatnot.

[RobMidtowner]

If you guys think I'm anti-transit, I'm not. I'm just saying that market forces from riders paying the true cost of transit could potentially counteract the perceived bloatedness of MARTA's bureaucratic structure. Just like having toll roads everywhere could potentially make people more efficient with their trips. It puts the cost of transportation right in your face.

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by RobMidtowner

If you guys think I'm anti-transit, I'm not. I'm just saying that market forces from riders paying the true cost of transit could potentially counteract the perceived bloatedness of MARTA's bureaucratic structure. Just like having toll roads everywhere could potentially make people more efficient with their trips. It puts the cost of transportation right in your face.

I agree that this idea works in theory. However, the politicians that remove the subsidies risk being voted out of office. It would create a pr nightmare as MARTA will come out swinging against the politician that willingly votes to hurt the working poor that ride MARTA.

MARTA would point to roads, industries, and all other forms of transit options in the state that get state funding and subsidies. They would remind the news that they are forced by law to split their revenues 50/50. Arguing that the state has no problem telling how they can spend their money but are completely unwilling to help fund them.

It would be a scandalous mess!

I agree that MARTA needs to be reorganized but the ram-rod approach will not work from a public relations or political perspective.

[WestsideATL]

http://www.atlantaregional.com/about...New-Leadership

(ATLANTA - Jun 03, 2010)

Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed Tapped as New Chair

The Regional Transit Committee held a working session yesterday to discuss governance structures and elect new officers. The group unanimously elected Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed to serve as RTC chair, succeeding interim chair, Tad Leithead, chair of the Atlanta Regional Commission. Gwinnett County chairman, Charles Bannister, was unanimously elected RTC vice chair.

In 2006, the first regional Transit Planning Board (TPB) for metro Atlanta was formed, consisting of elected and appointed government officials and transit operators. It later became the Transit Implementation Board (TIB) and is now the Regional Transit Committee (RTC) of the Atlanta Regional Commission (ARC).

The original TPB developed a region-wide transit plan called “Concept 3” in August, 2008. Having completed its plan, the body changed its name to the Transit Implementation Board and met under that title throughout 2009. The TIB ceased to exist as of December 31, 2009, and the RTC became active under the auspices of ARC on January 1, 2010.

The four-year old transit coordinating entity was formed under an agreement between ARC, the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT), the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority (GRTA) and the Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority (MARTA). The Regional Transit Committee is the continuation work by regional leaders to establish a governance structure for the planning, funding, construction, operation and maintenance of a truly integrated regional transit system.

At its retreat this week, RTC board explored potential governance structures, hearing from officials from the Regional Transit Authority in Chicago and from Sacramento, California. The RTC board is undergoing changes to its structure and procedures, to give it the support and stability required to address the critical next steps of financing projects and hiring staff. The RTC will undertake prioritizing transit improvements in the Concept 3 plan and continue the work of developing a region-wide fare structure and payment process that will allow riders to traverse the Atlanta region, changing providers as needed, in a seamless, consistent manner.

The RTC board will also work collaboratively with the legislative Transit Governance Study Committee, established by H.B. 277, to create a permanent governance model that will enable construction, operation and maintenance of multi-jurisdictional transit projects.

[DonTallPaul]

Anyone know if MARTA has considered its rail plans if Clayton joined this year? Any thought to the idea of putting back up to vote extending the existing 1 percent tax in Fulton and Dekalb the voters turned down a few years back? I seem to recall the number one reason those counties didn't extend was because nobody else joined the system. I know between they could certainly afford some expansions they've been eyeing if that happened. THough with the lingering 1 percent vote in 2012 that's probably pretty unlikely to get approved by voters anytime soon, probably worried about dropping too much sales tax on.

[WestsideATL]

Originally Posted by DonTallPaul

Anyone know if MARTA has considered its rail plans if Clayton joined this year? Any thought to the idea of putting back up to vote extending the existing 1 percent tax in Fulton and Dekalb the voters turned down a few years back? I seem to recall the number one reason those counties didn't extend was because nobody else joined the system. I know between they could certainly afford some expansions they've been eyeing if that happened. THough with the lingering 1 percent vote in 2012 that's probably pretty unlikely to get approved by voters anytime soon, probably worried about dropping too much sales tax on.

Clayton residents are going to get to vote in a straw poll this July to gauge interest on joining MARTA and if there is enough support, they will actually have a vote to join MARTA in November. I think it's going to be tough because no one is saying what Clayton would get for the 1-cent. Transit advocates are speculating that it might pay for commuter rail. (http://gallery.mailchimp.com/1a7a7b0...press0610e.pdf) I just don't see voters buying into speculation and I'm not sure MARTA would be the right operator for a commuter rail line. Hopefully, there will be a plan in place before the July straw poll so people have something to vote for or against.

[BlindFatSnake]

Originally Posted by WestsideATL

Clayton residents are going to get to vote in a straw poll this July to gauge interest on joining MARTA and if there is enough support, they will actually have a vote to join MARTA in November. I think it's going to be tough because no one is saying what Clayton would get for the 1-cent. Transit advocates are speculating that it might pay for commuter rail. (http://gallery.mailchimp.com/1a7a7b0...press0610e.pdf) I just don't see voters buying into speculation and I'm not sure MARTA would be the right operator for a commuter rail line. Hopefully, there will be a plan in place before the July straw poll so people have something to vote for or against.

Clayton county residents will be voting to join MARTA - not commuter rail. The question is whether MARTA will extend heavy rail into Clayton county or light rail lines. The national trend seems to be light rail over heavy rail due to the considerable cost difference in building light rail vs. heavy rail.

Also, Clayton county residents were used to the MARTA brand since C-tran contracted MARTA to run and operate the bus system.

Personally, I think commuter rail is dead in Georgia since HSR is taking center stage in NC and FL. Our connections with those states would be via HSR not commuter rail. So, a commter line from Macon to Atlanta would compete directly with HSR along the same route (for federal funds) ...

[WestsideATL]

Originally Posted by BlindFatSnake

Clayton county residents will be voting to join MARTA - not commuter rail. The question is whether MARTA will extend heavy rail into Clayton county or light rail lines. The national trend seems to be light rail over heavy rail due to the considerable cost difference in building light rail vs. heavy rail.

Also, Clayton county residents were used to the MARTA brand since C-tran contracted MARTA to run and operate the bus system.

Personally, I think commuter rail is dead in Georgia since HSR is taking center stage in NC and FL. Our connections with those states would be via HSR not commuter rail. So, a commter line from Macon to Atlanta would compete directly with HSR along the same route (for federal funds) ...

Well, re: heavy rail, there's a map on wikipedia showing potential extensions of the MARTA system into Clayton Co. but I doubt they've ever really been evaluated in detail. Concept3 doesn't have much in the way of heavy rail going into Clayton County. There is the Hapeville Line, but the Hapeville Station would likely still fall inside of Fulton Co. leaving only the Southern Crescent Station, which is in the middle of an industrial park. The Citizens for Progressive Transit map is a little better and has a station south of the Airport on Riverdale Road and one over by the Farmer's Market.

I'm skeptical that they'd do light rail because there wouldn't be any other LRT systems on the southside to connect to. It'd basically have to just stub into MARTA at either the Airport or College Park station. I guess it's possible though?

Re: HSR, it's never going to happen in Georgia until the tax laws change that enable GDOT to spend money on transit operations. HSR is going to require some sort of operating subsidy and because it's inter-city/inter-state in nature, that funding needs to come from the state/feds. Commuter rail is doable because you can actually ask the counties and municipalities that would benefit from the service to pitch in (whether they would or not is another matter).

[dante2308]

I assume that when HSR is built through the Carolina's, Florida, and Virginia, Georgia would be inclined to vote for a system expansion. We wont lead, but follow seems easier to stomach.

[cybele]

Well, it looks like the ATL is going after the streetcar thing again. This time it will just be going east and west.

Atlanta leaders hope streetcar proposal will win in second round of U.S. TIGER grants

[micropundit]

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/...readerComments

[cybele]

Originally Posted by micropundit

Beltline gets $5 million for bike trail

Well, here is a man who says the bicycle may be a thing of the past if we get off oil.

http://campfire.theoildrum.com/node/6622#more

[cybele]

Well, things are looking good for the high speed light rail coming down from Chicago.

LaHood puts bullet train on local map

Chattanooga bullet train advocates say they're upbeat after remarks by U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood indicating he'd like to see service go through Chattanooga and Nashville.

Also, the Atlanta-Chattanooga-Chicago rail corridor is now on White House maps showing potential routes, said Wayne Cropp, who heads the Scenic City's Enterprise Center.

"These are two positive developments," he said.

Mr. LaHood's remarks came this week at the Tennessee Valley Corridor Summit in Washington, D.C., Mr. Cropp said.

Joe Ferguson, who oversees Chattanooga's rail effort, said the next step is to locally match $13.8 million available in federal money. Those funds would help complete an environmental study of the Atlanta-Chattanooga route, he said.

The final environmental impact study would site the train's route and stations, Mr. Ferguson said.

There's no reason the route couldn't be eligible for part of an estimated $2 billion in federal money expected to be spent on high-speed rail nationwide, he said.

[cybele]

Well, here is another thing that says the high speed light rail is going in between B-ham and the ATL.

VIDEO: $500,000 high speed rail study moving forward

[Kenneth Disraili]

Not meaning to get off the High Speed Rail topic, but I sure wish Atlanta's heavy rail system could look like D.C.'s Metrorail.

http://www.wmata.com/rail/maps/map.cfm

[PedestriAnne]

Not good, people. This is not good at all.

I thought cutting the Braves shuttle was an idle threat. Looks like I was wrong. Might be profitable for some downtown taxi drivers. Are there taxi stands at the stadium? But if they're just sitting in the newly-increased traffic, they're not likely to make a lot of money. It's not as if most people can't walk from Georgia State station to the stadium, though. And if the people who can walk do, it would eliminate a lot of traffic for the people who can't.

Several buses routes that I use are being eliminated and others are going to become even more convoluted so as to pick up segments of those that are being eliminated, which will make the buses even slower. Looks like I'll be going without furniture a bit longer and buying a bike this fall instead.

And 15-minute headways at rush hour? That's just depressing.

[PedestriAnne]

Worse yet, that's another 300 people out of work around here.