The Next Canadian Olympics

[WarrenC12]

Vancouver had the last decent Olympics from a financial perspective. Everything since (and into the future) is a huge money pit more suited to the "Bread and Circus" requirements of authoritarian regimes.

Not to mention the FIFA levels of corruption.

[Nouvellecosse]

I understand why it's desirable to have repeat hosts from a financial perspective, but I love how so many cities have been able to use major events like the Olympics and Expo as sort of coming out parties. It can be a pivotal aspect of their history and leave a legacy of infrastructure and prestige if successful.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I understand why it's desirable to have repeat hosts from a financial perspective, but I love how so many cities have been able to use major events like the Olympics and Expo as sort of coming out parties. It can be a pivotal aspect of their history and leave a legacy of infrastructure and prestige if successful.

Absolutely, but cases where cities host again are clear examples of cost-saving and legacy-building by reusing previous facilities. If Vancouver/Whistler host in 2030 do they even need to build any new facilities? All costs would be tied in security, like every other major sports event these days.

Canada already has a number of cities currently using legacy infrastructure for Olympic programs.


https://twitter.com/johnnymocurler/s...53383144689672
This is the curling venue for 2022. It was previously the aquatics venue for 2008, reconfigured for this event.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I don't know how many facilities still exist in their Olympic form from the 2010 games. I remember some were converted to other use. What remains of them will be 20 to 25 years old; perfect time to refresh them. This makes sense as far as hosting games go.

FWIW, when Calgary looked into bidding for 2026, 80% of the existing facilities were to be reused with some of the "unique" infrastructure to be reused from Vancouver (Ski Jumps - those in Calgary are OBE, so the Calgary bid would just reuse those from 2010). LINK

When the referendum was held in 20192018, the updated material showed operating costs had ballooned to nearly $5B (compared with only $600M for infrastructure) due to nearly $2B in "security" costs. Seeing as these likely won't be decreasing going forward, it is possible that a 2030 would have over $6B in operating costs alone - even if there was no new infrastructure (skating oval is now a community centre - maybe they could use Calgary).

Given that the Olympics have truly jumped the shark, I think Canada should avoid all discussions about hosting any future game as they've now become just a place to burn money.

FTR, I was fully behind the Calgary bid and really wanted them to get 2026 ... until I saw the final report on cost estimates. FU IOC!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Vancouver had the last decent Olympics from a financial perspective. Everything since (and into the future) is a huge money pit more suited to the "Bread and Circus" requirements of authoritarian regimes.

Not to mention the FIFA levels of corruption.

There should be one permanent site for the summer games and one for the winter. The current system is ridiculous.

[svlt]

I can get behind a Vancouver 2030 bid. It wasn't a boondoggle for us here and the facilities exist, and now there is even the opportunity to pitch it as a sort of reconciliation partnership with Indigenous groups. Great start.

[hipster duck]

The abridged history of Toronto:

(1) 1793 - 1976: Toronto is not a world city
(2) 1977 - 2010: Toronto is not a world city, but likes to think it is.
(3) 2011 - present: Toronto is a world city

During its "adolescent" years - 1977 - 2010 - Toronto desperately tried to win Olympic bids. It was always a major news story when the Olympic committee came to town and people would be glued to the screen when the votes from delegates came in. We were always perennial losers.

One of the major events that showed that Toronto had matured was that, in 2011, Rob Ford unilaterally pulled support for an Olympic bid. He just said we weren't going to bid, and that was that. Amazingly, this time, nobody cared. Rob Ford was a dolt, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, and this was one of those times.

And then something even better happened. All the transit improvements that politicians sold as being completely contingent on Toronto winning an Olympics bid actually materialized. So now we have tens of billions of dollars of rail projects under construction in our city and we don't even have to throw a circus to get it. Win win.

[esquire]

I never understood the rationale behind why improvements to basic infrastructure like transit and sports facilities required a successful Olympic (or Commonwealth Games, or Pan Am or whatever) bid. Clearly you can do it for the benefit of residents without the massive added cost of putting on a games.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by svlt

I can get behind a Vancouver 2030 bid. It wasn't a boondoggle for us here and the facilities exist, and now there is even the opportunity to pitch it as a sort of reconciliation partnership with Indigenous groups. Great start.

Or in other words, BC's Booster Class (who tend to be primarily real estate shills) figured out that not only was using First Nations as a veil for unrestricted development possible but it will also work for one of their favourite tools, the Olympics.

Vancouver needs the Olympics like it needs a hole in the head.

[theman23]

Yeah, I agree with that. No thanks.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Or in other words, BC's Booster Class (who tend to be primarily real estate shills) figured out that not only was using First Nations as a veil for unrestricted development possible but it will also work for one of their favourite tools, the Olympics.

Vancouver needs the Olympics like it needs a hole in the head.

Interesting... so Indigenous interests are being used as political cover by the games' promoters?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by esquire

I never understood the rationale behind why improvements to basic infrastructure like transit and sports facilities required a successful Olympic (or Commonwealth Games, or Pan Am or whatever) bid. Clearly you can do it for the benefit of residents without the massive added cost of putting on a games.

Circuses (elections for one) were the only way to get stuff built across most of the nation for a decade or two.

The indigenous population was a big part of the first games; something to do with the Indigenous population still laying claim to the lands Vancouver is built on. Anyone willing to summarize ... is this different?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by esquire

Interesting... so Indigenous interests are being used as political cover by the games' promoters?

Games promoters=real estate & tourism promoters.

So, yeah, it sounds like they sold the indigenous groups a bill of goods.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Interesting... so Indigenous interests are being used as political cover by the games' promoters?

From what I was told the Indigenous groups were the ones that came to the COC first with the idea. It falls in line with new initiatives from the IOC.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by Airboy

From what I was told the Indigenous groups were the ones that came to the COC first with the idea. It falls in line with new initiatives from the IOC.

This is a First Nations (Indigenous) led bid - which is a first for Canada. There are four BC First Nations leading the bid feasibility study - these Nations were also official 'participants' in the 2010 Vancouver games (AFAIK). This time around the Nations have 'invited' the city of Vancouver and Whistler to participate in their 2030 bid exploration. The Nations have already created a 'Host Nation Expository Assembly' to consider all of the potential benefits and risks of hosting the games.

This bid is in line with Action 91 of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada 94 calls to action.

I will support this bid 100%. I also think, should the First Nations/Whistler/Vancouver decide to go ahead with this bid - after their thorough review - that it will be the successful bid.

Remember - BC is 95% unceded territory.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Remember - BC is 95% unceded territory.

And pretty soon they'll ask for it all back.

The Maliseet (Woolastooki) in NB have a claim before the courts for 60% of New Brunswick.

The only reason they didn't ask for the other 40% is because that was traditional MicMac territory...........

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

This is a First Nations (Indigenous) led bid - which is a first for Canada. There are four BC First Nations leading the bid feasibility study - these Nations were also official 'participants' in the 2010 Vancouver games (AFAIK). This time around the Nations have 'invited' the city of Vancouver and Whistler to participate in their 2030 bid exploration. The Nations have already created a 'Host Nation Expository Assembly' to consider all of the potential benefits and risks of hosting the games.

This bid is in line with Action 91 of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada 94 calls to action.

I will support this bid 100%. I also think, should the First Nations/Whistler/Vancouver decide to go ahead with this bid - after their thorough review - that it will be the successful bid.

Remember - BC is 95% unceded territory.

A bid feasibility study conducted by the First Nations assembly on a high ticket Olympic bid is a little alarming to me. They haven't proven themselves as great managers one bit; high chance of a complete boondoggle that will be gleefully funded and resented later.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

This is a First Nations (Indigenous) led bid - which is a first for Canada. There are four BC First Nations leading the bid feasibility study - these Nations were also official 'participants' in the 2010 Vancouver games (AFAIK). This time around the Nations have 'invited' the city of Vancouver and Whistler to participate in their 2030 bid exploration. The Nations have already created a 'Host Nation Expository Assembly' to consider all of the potential benefits and risks of hosting the games.

This bid is in line with Action 91 of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada 94 calls to action.

I will support this bid 100%. I also think, should the First Nations/Whistler/Vancouver decide to go ahead with this bid - after their thorough review - that it will be the successful bid.

Remember - BC is 95% unceded territory.

Do you really believe those four First Nations have the infrastructure to do a feasibility study themselves? It will all be by paid consultants.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Vancouver had the last decent Olympics from a financial perspective. Everything since (and into the future) is a huge money pit more suited to the "Bread and Circus" requirements of authoritarian regimes.

Not to mention the FIFA levels of corruption.

A reality check on that from the Globe & Mail this week:

Should Canada host the Olympics again in 2030? Not if we have to pay for it
THE EDITORIAL BOARD
PUBLISHED YESTERDAY

At the 2010 Winter Olympics, Canada won 14 gold medals – the most ever by a winter host country. An overtime victory in men’s hockey on the last day capped the haul. That win, on a bright and warm Sunday in Vancouver, with the cherry blossoms blooming early, ignited a giant party in the city and celebrations from coast to coast. Feb. 28, 2010, was a pretty awesome day.

Four years later, the Vancouver Organizing Committee closed its books on the Games. VANOC claimed to have broken even: $1.9-billion in revenue and $1.9-billion expenses. So much fun – and free!

Thing is, Olympic accounting is a unique sort of accounting. It involves more creative contortions than the free skate in pairs figure skating. Based on normal accounting, the Vancouver Olympics did not break even. Not even close.

First, it cost taxpayers about $600-million to build the venues. That public contribution was excluded from VANOC’s tally. Second, even by VANOC’s calculation, it lost $188-million – a gap filled by taxpayers. Third, security was a separate bill that topped $900-million – a cost five times more than initially forecast. That bill was also picked up by taxpayers. Add it all up, plus other items such as advertising, and the public tab was almost $2-billion, split between British Columbia and Ottawa. A gold medal in bookkeeping innovation goes to anyone claiming the Games were “breakeven.”

Then there’s the athletes’ village, which the City of Vancouver had to save from failure with a $690-million loan when the developer couldn’t finish the condos. The city lost more than $100-million. Further, there were several billion dollars in Olympic-related infrastructure, including the Canada Line and Highway 99. All of these have lasting value, but they might have been built differently or at later dates absent the Olympics.

The point of this history is to provide some context for judging the claims of promoters of Vancouver and Whistler playing host to the Winter Olympics in 2030. The wonders of those 14 gold medals get played up. The particulars of the full bill – footed by taxpayers of Canada and B.C. – tend to go unmentioned....(bold mine)

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...e-have-to-pay/

[esquire]

^ A damning indictment, but I assume that the underlying basis for the 2030 bid is the idea that most or all of the facilities already exist and there would have to be minimal outlay for new infrastructure. That I can accept. What I would have a hard time with is the idea of spending billions more on top of the 2010 capital costs.